India to develop with France engine for desi stealth fighter

[Yasser76]

I give China the respect it deserves. They learned, and learning very fast.

I personally rate China very highly for what they are doing and what they have already achieved.

You won’t usually find me going around trolling everywhere in Chinese-posted threads about their achievements. But whenever it comes to India, I often see people showing up just to troll.

We mostly know the history of Chinese manufacturing, including for the military. I only respond when someone comes into Indian threads, starts showing off, and tries to insult India.

States the biggest troll on PDF.

 

[Vkdindian1]

But this time is different. From the very beginning, India made full ToT the first non-negotiable condition, precisely because of the lessons learned from the AL-31 engine deal with Russia, where critical know-how was never shared

I understand that AL-31 single crystal blade tech was shared with India. They are being made in India now.
I do wonder, why that capability wasn’t exploited towards Kaveri?
There are many factions in Indian PSUs and one hand doesn’t want the other hand to know anything it is doing. Rivalries at the cost of the nation.
India has achieved quite a lot in Kaveri development but still lacks knowledge of very few but critical areas to join the big league.
These negotiations are probably to plug those holes.

A bridge too far - An engine too far.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Completely agreed! However, two important points often get overlooked:

India has been working on its own engine programs for decades. We already have significant experience with turbine blades and related technologies. The real challenge lies in the core technology, where India has not yet achieved full maturity.

India already manufactures several components of aircraft engines, though the most critical core parts and advanced technologies are still not reach.

So, to put it simply — India has long been trying to achieve this goal on its own but has not fully succeeded. That is why a partnership with France makes sense.

It’s not that India suddenly woke up today and decided to build an aircraft engine. The country has been engaged in this effort for decades. The difference now is that with a Technology Transfer (ToT) agreement, India can bridge the gap. Once the core technology is available, India should have little difficulty in adopting and advancing it, since it is not a new player but a long-time participant in this domain.

The French have never been very good at transferring knowledge and technology ever, lets see if this comes true and works for India.

China spent many tens of billions to develop the core technology, so the Idea that Safran will give this all over for a single engine contract deal sounds optimistic to me.

We dont know the true terms of the contract either, it is just a wish list.

I have my doubts that India will get the core technology that she wants/needs. Time will tell.

 

[Yasser76]

The French have never been very good at transferring knowledge and technology ever, lets see if this comes true and works for India. I have my doubts. Time will tell.

Yup, remember how they were supposed to send over ToT for the Scorpenes!?

 

[Ali_Baba]

Yup, remember how they were supposed to send over ToT for the Scorpenes!?

Yes, the scorpenes, and they also did a right old number on the Australians for their submarine deal before that was cancelled in the end. The contract is just the starting point for the antics of the french.

 

[Yasser76]

Yes, the scorpenes, and they also did a right old number on the Australians for their submarine deal before that was cancelled in the end. The contract is just the starting point for the antics of the french.

They are no fools for sure, have gamed the Indians for decades.....

 

[MirageV3ff]

Probably, but will take years, and Safran are focusing on the FCAS engine. Unsure if they are just going to fob India off with M88 tech (that is a very good engine it it's own right)

I think that's where they're probably headed. France recently revealed they're working on the M88 T-REX back in June. So likely they'll use that as a guideline to base the indian engine on. That is if this project goes anywhere

 

[Fatman17]

Should Pakistan and China start a project of their own inside Pakistan?

We don't know what China and Pakistan are up to and we won't until it's necessary. China is making huge strides in engine manufacturing but they have a while to go before they catch up with the west.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

The French have never been very good at transferring knowledge and technology ever, lets see if this comes true and works for India.

China spent many tens of billions to develop the core technology, so the Idea that Safran will give this all over for a single engine contract deal sounds optimistic to me.

We dont know the true terms of the contract either, it is just a wish list.

I have my doubts that India will get the core technology that she wants/needs. Time will tell.

France is not offering the core technology of the Rafale, and that’s why the deal is stuck.

The problem is that all sources — including the Indian government — are claiming “full Transfer of Technology” (ToT) for the engine deal.

But if you’re not willing to accept that, then there’s nothing more that can be done.

 

[Yasser76]

France is not offering the core technology of the Rafale, and that’s why the deal is stuck.

The problem is that all sources — including the Indian government — are claiming “full Transfer of Technology” (ToT) for the engine deal.

But if you’re not willing to accept that, then there’s nothing more that can be done.

Agreed. No one willing to accept that some of the worlds largest powers will give up soem of their most precious technology for for a couple of billion, when this same tehcnology has bought the hndreds of billions and helped scure their power status.

Apologies we do not share your confidence. 6 French Subs and no ToT ever delivered either.

You unwillingness to accept reality is the price we have to pay for enjoying this forum I guess....

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Agreed. No one willing to accept that some of the worlds largest powers will give up soem of their most precious technology for for a couple of billion, when this same tehcnology has bought the hndreds of billions and helped scure their power status.

Apologies we do not share your confidence. 6 French Subs and no ToT ever delivered either.

You unwillingness to accept reality is the price we have to pay for enjoying this forum I guess....

That's okay you believe what you want to believe but india has made clear previously if no TOT, including su57 deal was stuck

Indian government doesn't come forward nd make useless claim about TOT including previous deals

 

[Corax]

That's okay you believe what you want to believe but india has made clear previously if no TOT, including su57 deal was stuck

Indian government doesn't come forward nd make useless claim about TOT including previous deals

Of course, ridiculous claims are the sole purvey of its armed forces chiefs.

 

[Yasser76]

That's okay you believe what you want to believe but india has made clear previously if no TOT, including su57 deal was stuck

Indian government doesn't come forward nd make useless claim about TOT including previous deals

If so, care to explain how this French tech transfer worked out for you? Still zero AIP in IN.

All 6 Indian Navy Scorpene submarines to be retrofitted with DRDO developed AIP plugs for longer endurance

www.spsshownews.com

 

[Dalit]

We don't know what China and Pakistan are up to and we won't until it's necessary. China is making huge strides in engine manufacturing but they have a while to go before they catch up with the west.

No doubt. Engine tech is considered pinnacle of technology. It is literally rocket science.

 

[Nilgiri]

We don't know what China and Pakistan are up to and we won't until it's necessary. China is making huge strides in engine manufacturing but they have a while to go before they catch up with the west.

It may be of interest for you to read (esp manufacturing challenges):

Powering Proliferation: The Global Engine Market and China’s Indigenization

The military turbofan engine market proliferates technology nations like China need to build modern jet engines to compete with the United States. This brief explores China’s push to modernize its capabilities and broader dynamics in the global military engine market.

www.csis.org