Afghan Refugees op/ed by Ambassador Tariq Osman Hyder

[Rational Philosopher]

Pakistanis have been moaning about West and India their entire lives, what are you talking about ?

Regarding Gulf workers, they would happily stay in Gulf and gain citizenship if possible but the Gulfies are small in population and insecure, so they just use and dispose of foreign workers. The smart ones in the Gulf use it as a stepping stone to.......the West.

Yet they don't complain, because the Gulf said no. So your argument is moot.

Pakistanis may be critical of the west and India but immigration policy is NOT the focal point in that.

They may like favourable policies but they are well aware it is not some sort of birth right.

 

[Watandar]

Then why the whining about white supremacists? They are of no concern here.

True, but letting the enemy, irredentist state get millions of it's illegal loyal citizens become part of our society will be continuation of that neglect and mass, unrelenting, unforgiving, deportation will be a small reversal of that policy.

Using same arguments of white supremacists while at the same time dying to immigrate to West is the hypocrisy I was pointing to.

All those millions of "enemies" have been living in Pakistan with citizenship for 50 years now and are already part of society. And they are not going to be deported en masse as its physically impossible and unnecessary. The law is on their side as well.

 

[Watandar]

Yet they don't complain, because the Gulf said no. So your argument is moot.

Pakistanis may be critical of the west and India but immigration policy is NOT the focal point in that.

They may like favourable policies but they are well aware it is not some sort of birth right.

Of course they complain. I have met many who compare how unfair the Gulf is to the West and how decades of work and contribution to society that Pakistanis made are ignored by the selfish and insecure Arabs. The birthright citizenship in the West is one of the biggest magnets that attracts immigrants to it. It's why Pakistanis use Gulf as a stepping stone to the West.

Pakistanis are also despondent when western visas are restricted to them. Why are you pretending as if nobody in Pakistan cares ? All flights leaving Pakistan are full and people sitting in those planes all have visas.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Never became law and that's even before a court challenge.

Its only matter of time now. Once law is amended in parliament courts cannot do anything.

 

[Watandar]

Its only matter of time now. Once law is amended in parliament courts cannot do anything.

let's talk once the bill actually becomes law, the news I saw indicated the bill was deferred. You are also incorrect on courts, it is the job of the Supreme Court to overturn unconstitutional laws.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Of course they complain. I have met many who compare how unfair the Gulf is to the West and how decades of work and contribution to society that Pakistanis made are ignored by the selfish and insecure Arabs. The birthright citizenship in the West is one of the biggest magnets that attracts immigrants to it.

Pakistanis are also despondent when western visas are restricted to them. Why are you pretending as if nobody in Pakistan cares ? All flights leaving Pakistan are full and people sitting in those planes all have visas.

Expressing dissatisfaction is different from complaining. I retain my original argument: they don't believe it's their inherent right and they don't fiercely challenge it. They look elsewhere where policies are more favourable.

 

[Watandar]

Expressing dissatisfaction is different from complaining. I retain my original argument: they don't believe it's their inherent right and they don't fiercely challenge it. They look elsewhere where policies are more favourable.

Expressing dissatisfaction is same as complaining. Pakistanis are doing dunki to europe and America, including travelling dangerous routes via South America just to cross US border. Pakistanis are also among the high visa overstay countries and living illegally in many parts of the West. Why do you think Pakistani passport is so poor in the first place ? Because Pakistanis were obeying visas and immigration laws ?? Lol.

And yet when it comes to Afghans who are refugees from war Pakistanis speak about them same way as white supremacists attack legal immigrants in West. Hypocrisy at its finest.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Expressing dissatisfaction is same as complaining. Pakistanis are doing dunki to europe and America, including travelling dangerous routes via South America just to cross US border. Pakistanis are also among the high visa overstay countries and living illegally in many parts of the West. Why do you think Pakistani passport is so poor in the first place ? Because Pakistanis were obeying visas and immigration laws ?? Lol.

And yet when it comes to Afghans who are refugees from war Pakistanis speak about them same way as white supremacists attack legal immigrants in West. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Not really. People can be unhappy about a decision but still accept it. Those jumping on dunkis are like a tiny subset that doesn't wipe out the general sentiment.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Never became law and that's even before a court challenge.

Courts have been over ruled hence. They can't do anything but whine like about white supremacists. And since Pakistan isn't signatory to 1951 and 67 conventions, we can interpret these "refugees" as diplomats or an kinvading army if we wish so.

Bottom line, hell will freeze over before they get citizenship.

Using same arguments of white supremacists while at the same time dying to immigrate to West is the hypocrisy I was pointing to..

Those who were dying to get to the west and now sitting there accusing me who has no plans to go of "dying to get to the west" is the hypocrisy. Just because you lot abandoned your country for a salary and now feel guilty doesn't mean when have to live with a zionistic population to make up for it.

It's wouldn't matter a bit to us in Pakistan if they adopt the police of re-migration. Which is coming sooner or later.

And btw , white supremacists are right when they say mass migration is a threat to the west. It's a fact. Not an opinion.

All those millions of "enemies" have been living in Pakistan with citizenship for 50 years now and are already part of society. And they are not going to be deported en masse as its physically impossible and unnecessary. The law is on their side as well

Disagree.

This is what was said when Pakistan started fencing. "Oh, the tribes wouldn't allow this, it's not possible, over our graves". Not a finger was raised

This is what was said when Pakistan enforced passport and visas on the border "not on our watch, it will be war, mashar ashrap ghani will teach them a lesson, tribes will rebel", everyone got in line at the embassy anyway.

A million illegals + ACC have been returned according to UNHCR. 3 million illegals +ACC +POR cards remains. Few hundred thousand per month, half or a million per year, and within 5 years we would have reduced their number to a very small fraction.

"It's not possible" is a among the very long list of boasts that have been made before and then those who made it ran to the press club to beg for a reprieve.

 

[Watandar]

Not really. People can be unhappy about a decision but still accept it. Those jumping on dunkis are like a tiny subset that doesn't wipe out the general sentiment.

Yeah hundreds of thousands of illegal and millions of legal Pakistani emigrants every year is a non-issue and neither is it brain drain and neither do Pakistanis care if they get visa or citizenships abroad !! So believable.

 

[Rational Philosopher]

Yeah hundreds of thousands of illegal and millions of legal Pakistani emigrants every year is a non-issue and neither is it brain drain and neither do Pakistanis care if they get visa or citizenships abroad !! So believable.

Dude you keep deflecting into totally random points after failing to substantiate the previous one.

 

[Watandar]

Courts have been over ruled hence. They can't do anything but whine like about white supremacists. And since Pakistan isn't signatory to 1951 and 67 conventions, we can interpret these "refugees" as diplomats or an kinvading army if we wish so.

Bottom line, hell will freeze over before they get citizenship.

The constitution awards birthright citizenship and so does the 1951 law and that has never been amended. Pakistan has accepted Afghans as refugees of war for the last 50 years , its why UNHCR has such a big presence in the country for last 50 years. Afghan and Bengali children already have gained citizenship via these laws.

Those who were dying to get to the west and now sitting there accusing me who has no plans to go of "dying to get to the west" is the hypocrisy. Just because you lot abandoned your country for a salary and now feel guilty doesn't mean when have to live with a zionistic population to make up for it.

Pakistan is surviving on remittances and aid from this same lot who, according to you , abandoned the country. But you sitting unemployed in Pakistan are not of any use to anybody. I would request you be less jealous of those who are contributing to Pakistan from abroad and unlike you, were never rejected for visas.

It's wouldn't matter a bit to us in Pakistan if they adopt the police of re-migration. Which is coming sooner or later.

And btw , white supremacists are right when they say mass migration is a threat to the west. It's a fact. Not an opinion.

Disagree.

there is no mass migration to West, it's a mirage created by white supremacists who in turn are merely a tool of oligarchy that wants to distract from it's getting richer and richer and shifting blame to women, poor and immigrants. But this might be beyond your limited ability to understand.

This is what was said when Pakistan started fencing. "Oh, the tribes wouldn't allow this, it's not possible, over our graves". Not a finger was raised

This is what was said when Pakistan enforced passport and visas on the border "not on our watch, it will be war, mashar ashrap ghani will teach them a lesson, tribes will rebel", everyone got in line at the embassy anyway.

A million illegals + ACC have been returned according to UNHCR. 3 million illegals +ACC +POR cards remains. Few hundred thousand per month, half or a million per year, and within 5 years we would have reduced their number to a very small fraction.

"It's not possible" is a among the very long list of boasts that have been made before and then those who made it ran to the press club to beg for a reprieve.

The fencing is among a tiny part of the border and has not stopped militants or smugglers or ordinary people. It's for show. The deportations etc are also for show as the border remains porous and people will easily come back later. Corrupt Pakistani system will also sell ID cards, documents whatever to Afghans just like it has for last 50 years. Same corrupt system treats Pakistanis same way.

 

[Watandar]

Dude you keep deflecting into totally random points after failing to substantiate the previous one.

I have debunked all your arguments, reducing you to semantics.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

The constitution awards birthright citizenship and so does the 1951 law and that has never been amended. Pakistan has accepted Afghans as refugees of war for the last 50 years , its why UNHCR has such a big presence in the country for last 50 years. Afghan and Bengali children already have gained citizenship via these laws

The constitution doesn't allow children of enemy aliens.

Pakistan has accepted a small part of the total afghan refugees (POR) with limitations. Limitations that they broke, like illegally buying properties using proxies, engaging in illegal trade using proxies, non UNHCR education etc. They were supposed to remain in camps and under UNHCR umbrella, they broke the deal long ago. Even the most liberal countries denaturalize citizens for engaging in crimes like these. Let alone non citizens.

there is no mass migration to West, it's a mirage created by white supremacists who in turn are merely a tool of oligarchy that wants to distract from it's getting richer and richer and shifting blame to women, poor and immigrants.

Come of it. Anyone can Google Demographics statistics for key western cities. Just take London. Looks like mandi bahauddin. 55% non white. Canada looks like Lucknow. Frankfort looks like Kabul.

The worse thing is that these immigrants don't even bother to integrate. They continue with their tribal hostilities abroad. Indians and Pakistanis fought street battles in Leicester couple of years ago. Afghans regularly fight with Pakistanis at stadiums, from UAE to UK. And regular knife each other in Germany.

A generation or two, they get into second and third tier political power and use that to engage in tribal geo politics back home. Net negative.

The fencing is among a tiny part of the border and has not stopped militants or smugglers or ordinary people. It's for show. The deportations etc are also for show as the border remains porous and people will easily come back later. Corrupt Pakistani system will also sell ID cards, documents whatever to Afghans just like it has for last 50 years.

Fencing was never to stop anyone. It was to slow them down enough for border forces to react to mass scale attacks. The entire destructions of multiple tashkeels near the border is thanks to that fence. Albiet it needs to be manned properly.

As for the rest, this is where "it is impossible" bunch try to undermine efforts and tell Pakistan to bend over and take it instead. Yes, some might return, but that's better than letting every afghan in and giving everyone already here citizenship.

Deportations is a longe term policy not a short term one. Keep deporting, wether millions are here or dozens are here. Eventually the numbers go down to a reasonable level.

As for ID cards, yes, Afghans in Nadra, especially in chaman, are a problem but not an unfixable one. Illegal Afghans with IDs don't have family trees in the database. One system heck will cough out most of them. Again, something "it's not possible" bunch would like us not to do in the first place. One might wonder regarding their true intentions.

Same corrupt system treats Pakistanis same way.

Divide and rule will not work here in this matter. Pakistanis overwhelming stand with the system against the illegal settlers form Afghanistan as far as mass deportations are concerned.

And last, if "it's not possible", why are they so worried?

 

[nahtanbob]

Using same arguments of white supremacists while at the same time dying to immigrate to West is the hypocrisy I was pointing to.

All those millions of "enemies" have been living in Pakistan with citizenship for 50 years now and are already part of society. And they are not going to be deported en masse as its physically impossible and unnecessary. The law is on their side as well.

Explain why all the countries in Eurasia and Africa do not have birthright citizenship