Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[Taimoor]

Don't make assumptions that people who disagree with your views are automatically Imran Khan supporters.

This character is mentally disturbed. I am guessing some PTI supporter have done something horrible to him. IK lives rent free in this mind 24*7.

 

[r3alist]

This could be the case but we are both speculating here. As for military affairs, all I know is that the Zionists/Israel, courtesy of the US/West, have the military advantage in the region (by design) and nukes which no Arabs or Muslims, aside from Pakistan, possess. I don't think that I am wrong in the military aspect that I covered.

If not the case, why have the Arabs and Muslims not long ago attacked the Zionists to stop the bloodbath in Gaza with Pakistan (the strongest of them) at the helm? It contradicts what you are saying.

As for the Zionist/US bombing of Iran, I have no clue what stopped them but it appears to me that they did the job that they wanted to/intended to. Destroyed their nuclear program for good, most of their anti-ballistic missile systems, much of their military infrastructure, killed/assassinated most of their main scientists and a ton of military commanders. Now the Iranian regime is capitulating before the world and sanctions are even back.

Not sure why they needed to nuke Iran to achieve the above. They would only do so in case Iran posed an existential threat to Israel and Iran does not pose any such threats with all due respect to Iranian missiles.

In short Zionist entity/Israel = USA/WEST/NATO de facto.


I will try, at least occasionally, but no guarantees. A good place to have interesting discussions, no doubt, and always interesting to follow the developments in Pakistan and see the opinions of our Pakistani friends. Just a shame that there are not more active Arab users (very few of us) and more interestingly, users with different opinions etc to give other perspectives. We have Arab social media/forums for that but many of them tend to be echo chambers or places where moderators are trying to restrict "outside of the box" thinking because you tend to receive all kinds of various labels for doing so at times. PDF for whatever reason, is capable of something that no other forum is, lol, in a good way.

I think the forum would benefit from a well-grounded Arab perspective, and you may well attract fellow allies who are lurking.

 

[the vicious kind]

No one knows what’s in the agreement, so to say “When something good happens in Pakistan” regarding this agreement is mostly conjecture. In this thread people are imagining that PAF will take over whole bases in Saudi Arabia and station multiple squadrons of fighters, maybe even nuclear missiles, there will be billions of dollars of Saudi investment in Pakistan’s defence industry, massive investment in the economy, it will be the beginning of an Islamic NATO etc.

In reality most of that stuff is just a product of overactive imaginations and reality may be much less glamorous. If what people want is 10 and nothing is 0 then reality may be in the 2-3 range. That’s still better than nothing, so I’m all in favor of the deal, whatever it is.

Pakistan is not a welfare-oriented, docile state like Canada, where defense treaties are debated endlessly in parliament. It is a security state facing multiple existential challenges.

While we do not have access to the full contents of the treaty, the joint statement itself is very telling. It clearly states that an attack on one country will be considered an attack on both language directly mirroring NATO’s Article 5. Such joint statements are never casual; every word is chosen with calculation and care. For context, even when Indian delegations gained sympathy abroad, they were unable to convince others to explicitly name Pakistan. This was a big deal and has been pointed out as a failure by their own defence analysts.

This agreement must be understood in its historical context. Saudi Arabia has the resources and financial muscle but lacks operational experience, particularly in modern sensor-based warfare. Pakistan, on the other hand, possesses the battlefield experience but does not have the financial depth to arm its forces to the desired level.
In the past, Pakistan has deployed thousands of troops to the Kingdom on multiple occasions. In return, Saudi Arabia has repeatedly come to our aid bailing us out financially countless times and even funding some of our defense purchases.
It’s a straightforward dynamic, yet for some reason many people still fail to grasp it. R

Regarding the particulars or actional steps of this agreement, we need to wait. It was literally signed a few days ago. Sadly, Pakistani media doesn’t have a single defense analyst worth listening to. What we’re left with are clowns like Moeed Pirzada and Najam Sethi, self-proclaimed “defense experts" who are nothing more than glorified frauds with zero real knowledge of defense affairs and geo strategy.

 

[_Arabia_]

Jordan has been a loyal ally of Pakistan and sent us F-104s during war and handed over used F-16s, however, in the light of the bigger picture, I cannot think of a country more useless to the Arab cause in the last 30 years.

Sauds should have kept Transjordan from the Hashemites....

Less said about Sadat, Mubarak and Sisi the better. Nasser was the shining jewel for Egypt and the Arab world, now they are basically a US/Israeli puppet

Jordan is an extension of Hejaz (all the local Arabs are mostly of Hejazi origin - rest are Palestinian Arabs with a small minority of Circassians), even the ruling family is. The Crown Prince (himself half Palestinian) has married a Saudi Arabian lady as well.

Deep ties since the Nabatean era between Hejaz and what is today Jordan.

It is a country rich in history despite its size and there are a ton of amazing historical heritage sites to witness, the most famous being Petra (Nabateans).

Anyway Jordan and Iraq was the compensation that the Hashemites were given after being driven out of the Hejaz by Ibn Saud.

When I talk about the unity of Arabia (in a perfect world) I of course include Jordan here.

But as you know, after so many years, locals/people start to have an attachment to their own state/identity/nation and they tend to not look at the bigger picture. Now doubt in my mind that many Jordanians (even those with ancestral ties to Hejaz) would be fighting AGAINST say a Saudi Arabian force, if the intention of said force was to unify both nations. The other way around as well.

But as you know, outside of the wider Arab identity and kinship that we all share and that nothing can change, the regimes in power, the last thing they want to see, is that, attempts at unification, because that would put their own thrones/power in jeopardy. What role would say the Al-Thanis play (if any) if say the GCC united one day? Or even the House of Saud if the political landscape changes completely?

The only thing that is certain is that things are bound to change one way or another.

I think the forum would benefit from a well-grounded Arab perspective, and you may well attract fellow allies who are lurking.

Highly doubtful, if anything I might scare them away, but thank you for the warm words.

In all seriousness, I do believe that Arabs as a whole, in particular people from KSA, given the close historical ties with Pakistan, should have a better understanding of Pakistan and Pakistanis and what is ticking your boxes. In fact I am often shocked how ignorant many Muslims (regardless of ethnicity and nationality) are of their own Islamic history and the history of the region and how many falsehoods etc. are repeated.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

King Fahad of KSA, Pak. will never forget what he has done for us!
deeply indebted

 

[Yasser76]

Jordan is an extension of Hejaz (all the local Arabs are mostly of Hejazi origin - rest are Palestinian Arabs with a small minority of Circassians), even the ruling family is. The Crown Prince (himself half Palestinian) has married a Saudi Arabian lady as well.

Deep ties since the Nabatean era between Hejaz and what is today Jordan.

It is a country rich in history despite its size and there are a ton of amazing historical heritage sites to witness, the most famous being Petra (Nabateans).

Anyway Jordan and Iraq was the compensation that the Hashemites were given after being driven out of the Hejaz by Ibn Saud.

When I talk about the unity of Arabia (in a perfect world) I of course include Jordan here.

But as you know, after so many years, locals/people start to have an attachment to their own state/identity/nation and they tend to not look at the bigger picture. Now doubt in my mind that many Jordanians (even those with ancestral ties to Hejaz) would be fighting AGAINST say a Saudi Arabian force, if the intention of said force was to unify both nations. The other way around as well.

But as you know, outside of the wider Arab identity and kinship that we all share and that nothing can change, the regimes in power, the last thing they want to see, is that, attempts at unification, because that would put their own thrones/power in jeopardy. What role would say the Al-Thanis play (if any) if say the GCC united one day? Or even the House of Saud if the political landscape changes completely?

The only thing that is certain is that things are bound to change one way or another.

Good write up

 

[Yasser76]

King Fahad of KSA, Pak. will never forget what he has done for us!
deeply indebted

Fahad and Faisal, now MBS has finally followed in the footsteps of his forefathers.

I think even back then Fahad had figured out Pakistan and Saudi destinies would always be linked.

 

[ARMalik]

I dislike her immensely, but have to admit that she is pretty good looking.

Seriously dude, you need to work on your standards - they are as bad as indian public toilets.

 

[mythbuster]

Jordan is an extension of Hejaz (all the local Arabs are mostly of Hejazi origin - rest are Palestinian Arabs with a small minority of Circassians), even the ruling family is. The Crown Prince (himself half Palestinian) has married a Saudi Arabian lady as well.

Deep ties since the Nabatean era between Hejaz and what is today Jordan.

It is a country rich in history despite its size and there are a ton of amazing historical heritage sites to witness, the most famous being Petra (Nabateans).

Anyway Jordan and Iraq was the compensation that the Hashemites were given after being driven out of the Hejaz by Ibn Saud.

When I talk about the unity of Arabia (in a perfect world) I of course include Jordan here.

But as you know, after so many years, locals/people start to have an attachment to their own state/identity/nation and they tend to not look at the bigger picture. Now doubt in my mind that many Jordanians (even those with ancestral ties to Hejaz) would be fighting AGAINST say a Saudi Arabian force, if the intention of said force was to unify both nations. The other way around as well.

But as you know, outside of the wider Arab identity and kinship that we all share and that nothing can change, the regimes in power, the last thing they want to see, is that, attempts at unification, because that would put their own thrones/power in jeopardy. What role would say the Al-Thanis play (if any) if say the GCC united one day? Or even the House of Saud if the political landscape changes completely?

The only thing that is certain is that things are bound to change one way or another.


Highly doubtful, if anything I might scare them away, but thank you for the warm words.

In all seriousness, I do believe that Arabs as a whole, in particular people from KSA, given the close historical ties with Pakistan, should have a better understanding of Pakistan and Pakistanis and what is ticking your boxes. In fact I am often shocked how ignorant many Muslims (regardless of ethnicity and nationality) are of their own Islamic history and the history of the region and how many falsehoods etc. are repeated.

Bro , you are too much into the genetics of local tribes , you come across as racist..... though, I am sure you are not.

 

[_Arabia_]

On your first part ' contradiction ' .....there is none...... Palestine/Gaza is not a red line for Pakistan...you can't be cavalier in establishing red lines .......on the Iranian part ....in the begining Americans were reluctant to use those powerful bunker busters against the Iranian nuclear sites....after the Israeli threat of using nukes and Pakistan's counter threat a compromise was made ...nukes will not be used and America will take out Iranian nuclear facilities....... Statecraft is a dirty game , it's beyond the comprehension of armchair intellectuals of social media.

My friend, you wrote to @The SC that we were (I assume you meant either Arabs or Muslims as a whole) overestimating Israel. I gave you a reply why, if that is the case (which appears to be the case given the inability of any Muslim nation to stop the bloodbath in Gaza), this is due to Israel de facto being an extension of the US/West/NATO and as such untouchable militarily by large. Add in the nuclear factor as well.

Now, could Israel be conventionally defeated by even an local Arab coalition (not even going to mention the likes of Pakistan), of course, but you would need to somehow remove the US/West/NATO from the equation (easier said than done) and somehow render the Israeli nukes mute.

You give the example of Iran and how supposedly Pakistan prevented the use of Israeli nuclear bombs on Iran. But your entire example is made moot, with all due respect, as nothing could/was done to stop the US/Israel from attacking Iran and reaching all of their objectives by any Muslim nations, Pakistan included.

Similar situation with Israel and Gaza. Not sure how any of the above can be denied or where "statecraft" comes into the picture here.

 

[Waz]

I would disagree with you. Pakistan must sign this deal at all costs, and all Arab countries should also take part in it, because their banks and budgets are huge. You cannot imagine how much leverage Pakistan could gain. Pakistan’s energy needs would be met, it would gain major economic benefits, and the weapons manufactured by China would also be co-developed by Pakistan and Turkey. As a result, massive investment would flow into Pakistan.

The Arab states have also realized that the weapons they have bought from the United States over the past fifty or sixty years hold no real value. At any time, their programs could be shut down, their codes could be changed, and those weapons could never be used against Israel.

Moreover, the agreements being signed now will not be opposed by the world, because the atrocities committed by Israel and its Western allies are clear for everyone to see. American and British world order was destroyed by their own Ally, Israel. reason why King invited Trump to Palace to talk about Nathayahu fucked American and Western lead world order in 2 years

The UAE is a pariah state involved in the worst violations of Muslim nations at this point in time. They have destroyed Sudan, have investments in Kashmir over the blood and bones of Kashmiris, we all know what they have done to the Palestinians and Indians practically run their state for them.
If I had my way I would annihilate them and merge what is left with Saudi.
They are an extreme risk and shouldn't be touched in any way shape or form. They will now fast find out how alone they are.

 

[mythbuster]

My friend, you wrote to @The SC that we were (I assume you meant either Arabs or Muslims as a whole) were overestimating Israel. I gave you a reply why, if that the case (which appears to be the case given the inability of any Muslim nation to stop the bloodbath in Gaza), which is due to Israel de facto being an extension of the US/West/NATO and as such untouchable militarily. Add in the nuclear factor as well.

Now, could Israel be conventionally defeated by even an local Arab coalition (not even going to mention the likes of Pakistan), of course, but you would need to somehow remove the US/West/NATO from the equation (easier said than done) and somehow render the Israeli nukes mute.

You give the example of Iran and how supposedly Pakistan prevented the use of Israeli nuclear bombs on Iran. But your entire example is made moot, with all due respect, as nothing could/was done to stop the US/Israel from attacking Iran and reaching all of their objectives by any Muslim nations, Pakistan included.

Similar situation with Israel and Gaza. Not sure how any of the above can be denied or where "statecraft" comes into the picture here.

A bitter truth..... neither Saudi Arabia nor Pakistani want to see a nuclear Iran .....I hope this will clarify some misconceptions in your mind.

 

[Tamerlane]

On your first part ' contradiction ' .....there is none...... Palestine/Gaza is not a red line for Pakistan...you can't be cavalier in establishing red lines .......on the Iranian part ....in the begining Americans were reluctant to use those powerful bunker busters against the Iranian nuclear sites....after the Israeli threat of using nukes and Pakistan's counter threat a compromise was made ...nukes will not be used and America will take out Iranian nuclear facilities....... Statecraft is a dirty game , it's beyond the comprehension of armchair intellectuals of social media.

Your posts about Pakistan’s involvement in the Iran affair are quite interesting. It possibly explains why the Iranian parliament was chanting ‘Tashakur Pakistan.’ If Pakistan really saved Iran from an Israeli nuclear attack then I salute Asim Munir and the generals.

However, I will still not become a fanboy of Sam (Syed Asim Munir) until he gets rid of the criminal types and puts Pakistan on the road to economic development.

 

[_Arabia_]

A bitter truth..... neither Saudi Arabia nor Pakistani want to see a nuclear Iran .....I hope this will clarify some misconceptions in your mind.

A different topic altogether and not really related to the points that I raised in regards to Israel de facto being an extension of the US/West/NATO. Not to mention the Israeli nukes. As is common knowledge the only Muslim state with nukes is Pakistan and you yourself have just pointed out that Gaza/Palestine is not a red line for Pakistan and we all know that Pakistani nukes will not be used on Israel as that would be a suicide for everyone involved and Pakistan would itself face nuclear retaliation from Israel/US/West.

It is not about that. Besides I don't think that KSA would/should have any problem with nuclear proliferation in the region provided that KSA itself gains the tech and other main Arab nations to ensure parity. Besides nukes appear to be the best weapon in regards to preventing all-out wars. Two nuclear-armed states are far less likely to engage in a serious conflict than if one of the combatants does not have nukes or none of them have it.

I think that you are contradicting yourself a bit here by saying that Israel is overrated but seemingly at the same time the entire Muslim world is parallelized (global community in fact) and cannot do anything to stop their crimes.

So if not because of what I stated (inability to defeat Israel militarily due to the US/West/NATO/nuke angle as I wrote) it is outright treason.

I would like to believe that it is the first reason.....

 

[Cash gk]

The UAE is a pariah state involved in the worst violations of Muslim nations at this point in time. They have destroyed Sudan, have investments in Kashmir over the blood and bones of Kashmiris, we all know what they have done to the Palestinians and Indians practically run their state for them.
If I had my way I would annihilate them and merge what is left with Saudi.
They are an extreme risk and shouldn't be touched in any way shape or form. They will now fast find out how alone they are.

About uae I agree. They are fucking non believes