Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[Oscar]

Israel does not allow non-Jewish immigrants. Maybe stop listening to every imbecile out there?

There's a few million Ahmadis around the world, let me know which dastardly schemes have they hatched so far.



@FarhanSiddiqui you added them in there yourself? Great job buddy. Let us also know what the lizard people are doing these days.



And if worse comes to worse, the Indian cricket team will establish Akhand Bharat by refusing handshakes, like the sissies that they are.

Quite frankly the issue of sects in one country or multiples
can easily be seen by the direction their religious leadership chooses to take.

For e.g see the “hell tour park” in Iran - launched a few weeks prior to Israel’s romp around the country.

Certain “Sufi sects in India painted a fat dude as a devil in one event - others in Pakistan are having raves complete with glow in the dark bands.

And as for the hatched conspiracy by Qadiyanis - just checking out recent “initiation” ceremonies tells me we’re in scientology territory at this point.

Meanwhile mainstream sunni types are busy in 30 second tik tok takes for clout.

Not saying many of these sects in the past were not involved in promoting vested interests of forces outside Pakistan but then various vested interests in Pakistan have used state messaging to promote interests.

 

[Sam6536]

India is irrelevant into the foreseeable future. Some have even said above that India is 'checkmated'.

India will have to weather this storm. Pakistan has it's new security pact and will need to focus on Israel. India well would need to focus on its economy. Lots of graduates not enough jobs to go around.

We are back to the initial calculus, Pakistan being part of Global security apparatuses like CENTO and SEATO and now it's the one with Saudis. Indians meanwhile are more inward looking and will be looking to improve the economy by signing FTAs and looking for more investments, that's the only way we can grow.

The whole scenario around H1Bs has made it clear that globalisation is dying a slow death. Your own national power and economy grants you standing in this world.

The Israel and Russian war has put Indian diplomacy in a grinder. Both wars have had implications this is true. Foreign policy needs a reset while keeping the same relations with all parties.

Truth be told India doesn't have any true enemies apart from Pakistan, that's why we try to have friendly relations with everyone. No Indian government will put boots on the ground for any foreign war, we just don't function like that. Even the one we did in Sri Lanka ended up in disaster.

TWAIL (Third World Approach to International Law) is dead.
We're entering the pre WW2 stage again.

 

[Ak01]

You say migration is normal. Everyone moves. Fine. Then why does the World Bank record over 800,000 Pakistanis leaving in a single year? That is not a trickle. That is a flood. Call it what it is.

Your story about American defense engineers walking out and the project bouncing back in four weeks? Fiction. Sensitive aerospace projects do not reboot on coffee and apologies. The US has entire clearance systems precisely because replacing skilled teams takes years - maybe if you were actually familiar with the process . And on the off chance If your tale were true, it only proves how catastrophic losing an entire team is. Not how harmless.

You dismiss JF-17 and missile delays as fantasy. Convenient. Yet the Parliamentary Committee on Defence in 2021 admitted skilled shortages caused slowdowns. Chinese partners have complained about retraining Pakistani engineers. Those are official records. Not gossip.

You blame rote learning. You are right that universities push memorization. But explain this. If our engineers are so hollow, why do the same graduates thrive in Canada, the Gulf, or the United States? They succeed abroad because the environment supports them. Which means Pakistan loses trained talent the moment they become valuable. That is the definition of brain drain.

You claim everyone is replaceable. A clerk, yes. A neurosurgeon, no. An aerospace engineer trained at state expense? No. Pakistan spends tens of thousands of dollars to develop each PhD. When that person leaves, the country does not retrain in four weeks. It loses years of investment.

You argue population size protects us. That is sleight of hand. If headcount solved the problem, Nigeria would be a tech giant. Bangladesh would lead in aerospace. They do not. The IMF has flagged skilled emigration as a structural weakness in Pakistan’s economy.

Bedtime stories about replaceability or training gaps will not change the feathers.
It’s clear you made all of your post up to try and justify your need to argue to be right.

Making up personal experience and being dismissive of others shows someone purely incapable of actual discussion.
Starting to agree with @arslank01 assessment of you.

I provided you with the narrative and can easily provide you references by studies. Lets see what you can find to back yourself up. Probably nothing much like your military or strategic threads.

Take JamDs advice - it is much kinder than my opinion it this point.

 

[Meengla]

I can already see signs of India trying to distance itself from Israel.
That would not be wise
But then again would modi even feel comfortable giving nethanyahoo a big hug these days?
You guys are going to disown Israel right?

I never believed most Indians had too much of a stake in the Arab/Muslim vs Israel conflict, which became a global focus since the Gaza War started nearly two years ago, but too many stupid Indian bloggers and the stupid Indian regime went too far in supporting Israel when the Gazans were being slaughtered. I could tell some saner Indian analysts felt uneasy about the Indians' posture early into that conflict but were a tiny minority and now you see more and more of them realizing the historic folly by the Indian govt and blogspace.
And hence there is more attempts by the Indian govt and blogspace to distance themselves from the dangerous policy of appeasing Israel. What does Israel give to India? Weapons on hard cash and some access to the American political system. What do the Arab countries do for India? 9 million reliable workers sending a lot of money into India every month. And that's why we see almost all Indian bloggers worried more about those workers in the Middle East than about the Saudi jets in Pakistan. And Pakistan needs to work on displacing every single Indian from the Middle East regardless of who they would be replaced with.
As to the bogus claims above about any Pakistani 'brain drain', I too could throw some numbers to the mix but will do in another debate. For now, suffice to say, Indians are worried about losing their 'brain gain' from the Middle East. Both countries have too much brain to drain as it is!

 

[harpy1]

So going forward your trade with Saudi Arabia will fund Saudi investment into Pakistan.

The question really was, is India going to proudly and openly embrace Israel as a key ally? It's a yes or no type of answer

Yes
Just like we never turn our back on Russia
India is loyal
It's interests always come first

 

[Meengla]

India will have to weather this storm. Pakistan has it's new security pact and will need to focus on Israel. India well would need to focus on its economy. Lots of graduates not enough jobs to go around.
We are back to the initial calculus, Pakistan being part of Global security apparatuses like CENTO and SEATO and now it's the one with Saudis. Indians meanwhile are more inward looking and will be looking to improve the economy by signing for FTAs and looking for more investments.
The whole scenario around H1Bs has made it clear that globalisation is dying a slow death. Your own national power and economy grants you standing in this world.
The Israel and Russian war has put Indian diplomacy in a grinder. Both wars have had implications this is true. Foreign policy needs a reset while keeping the same relations with all parties.
Truth be told India doesn't have any true enemies apart from Pakistan, that's why we try to have friendly relations with everyone. No Indian government will put boots on the ground for any foreign war, we just don't function like that. Even the one we did in Sri Lanka ended up in disaster.
TWAIL (Third World Approach to International Law) is dead.
We're entering the pre WW2 stage again.

Much food for thought there. Thank you.

 

[harpy1]

I ask again
Are you ready to risk your nation and people against Israel
You are seeing already Israel is military super power in this region
What have you signed up for ?
Defending Saudi ..
Saudi has two enemies
Israel and Iran
You ready for this commitment

 

[r3alist]

Truth be told India doesn't have any true enemies apart from Pakistan, that's why we try to have friendly relations with everyone. No Indian government will put boots on the ground for any foreign war, we just don't function like that.

That's a good post and the main point is above

You suggested and spoke as if you would take China on.

There is not a chance you will be anything like China, different people, different capabilities

So the best bet for being a counterweight is militarily

Which you do not have the stomach for, major Nations invariably have to make sacrifices, it's just what happens


USA, Russia have all committed troops to protect their interests.

So once the Americans felt that they had given India a good old try, enough is enough, no room for pretenders

 

[r3alist]

I ask again
Are you ready to risk your nation and people against Israel
You are seeing already Israel is military super power in this region
What have you signed up for ?
Defending Saudi ..
Saudi has two enemies
Israel and Iran
You ready for this commitment

You are now inviting the much lauded success of Pakistani pilots against Israel, it's already happened

And China has brokered an agreement with the Saudis and Iran

 

[r3alist]

I ask again
Are you ready to risk your nation and people against Israel
You are seeing already Israel is military super power in this region
What have you signed up for ?
Defending Saudi ..
Saudi has two enemies
Israel and Iran
You ready for this commitment

Therefore I ask again, will you now embrace Israel openly and warmly in this predicament?

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

View attachment 148932

so, who's next?!!!

Mr.X?!!

 

[r3alist]

I never believed most Indians had too much of a stake in the Arab/Muslim vs Israel conflict, which became a global focus since the Gaza War started nearly two years ago, but too many stupid Indian bloggers and the stupid Indian regime went too far in supporting Israel when the Gazans were being slaughtered. I could tell some saner Indian analysts felt uneasy about the Indians' posture early into that conflict but were a tiny minority and now you see more and more of them realizing the historic folly by the Indian govt and blogspace.
And hence there is more attempts by the Indian govt and blogspace to distance themselves from the dangerous policy of appeasing Israel. What does Israel give to India? Weapons on hard cash and some access to the American political system. What do the Arab countries do for India? 9 million reliable workers sending a lot of money into India every month. And that's why we see almost all Indian bloggers worried more about those workers in the Middle East than about the Saudi jets in Pakistan. And Pakistan needs to work on displacing every single Indian from the Middle East regardless of who they would be replaced with.
As to the bogus claims above about any Pakistani 'brain drain', I too could throw some numbers to the mix but will do in another debate. For now, suffice to say, Indians are worried about losing their 'brain gain' from the Middle East. Both countries have too much brain to drain as it is!

I have been shocked myself at the support some Indians.... who I didn't think had any strong opinion... have suddenly showed Israel


It was kind of tucked away, I think it came out because it looked as if no one would stop Israel, and the Arabs were supporting so it seemed okay


By the way, Israel is allowing Indian labour to replace Arab labor, that suggests a strong level of trust

 

[Pradotlc]

Indians are a endless supply of comedy


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[Asfandyar Bhittani]

Türkiye has just been cheating on Qatar's money, and it is no different from the United States.

Irrelevant to what I was talking about but I will still bite

I was speaking of different camps in ME. Qatar and KSA aren't part of the same camp.

And by the same camp I don't mean those in the same camp will defend each other. For example, Qatar, Turkey and Syria are the same camp but Turkey defends neither Qatar nor the Israeli invasion of Syria. They don't have actually pacts.

Same in KSA camp. UAE abandoned them in Yemen midway and started backing the separatists while Saudis are attempting to keep the country together with "govt forces". This third pole in Yemen has made peace talks an impossible riddle.

It is in this background I was saying that it is very unlikely KSA will grant a veto to a country like Qatar it had blockaded few years ago, by letting it join Pak Saudi agreement with a veto power.

 

[mythbuster]

I ask again
Are you ready to risk your nation and people against Israel
You are seeing already Israel is military super power in this region
What have you signed up for ?
Defending Saudi ..
Saudi has two enemies
Israel and Iran
You ready for this commitment

Iran is not the enemy anymore .....In case we couldn't do anything against Israelis , we will hold our noses and screw the smelly Indians in desperation.....