Pakistan-Af: Operation Khyber Storm

[Taimoor]

The "oral tradition" that mentions the above has been scientifically proven to be false..

Also this is off topic and irrelevant to this discussion.

Refer to my reply above about gene theory. I understand its off topic, just clarifying some misconcepts.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I am very disappointed that Pakistan Military is not destroying more Taliban scums.

Pakistan has crossed the line and told the Taliban, that we can and will hit you in Kabul, and anywhere else we want to if you do anything. The game has changed and Pakistan is no longer a passive recipient of your terrorism.

So, the Taliban are at a decision point now, carry on supporting the TTP or do what Pakistan is asking, and crack down on them and disband them entirely.

The decision is Afghanistan's, as are the consequences of those decisions.

 

[Sainthood 2.0]

The only right decision is to disintegrate the Afghanistan as an State and get its geographical areas ruled neighboring countries.

Tajik majority areas to Tajikistan, Uzbek majority areas to Uzbekistan, Turkish Majority Area to Turkistan and Hazar majority Areas to Iran.

Pashtoon Population could be put under administrative control of council of elders of Pushtoon Tribes with mandate only for internal law and order education and Health (limited Dominion status) under security guarantees for all the neighbouring countries.

You'd set a wrong precedence like that in our region
Central Asian countries are ethnic based nations due to leftist socialist policies
But our region from Iran to India are all multi ethnic nations with civic nationalism as it's core identity
At least theoretically
If you balkanize Afghanistan you'd open up a flood gate of similar demands in our own country eventually and a more dedicated/ furious demands for one nation from the Afghan side who's sole national identity would that be of a mono ethnic nation with no opposition.

Best scenario is to shift Afghan identity away from central Asian concept of ethnic based nationalism to a more Civic based one like it is in Iran, Pakistan, India etc

But how would you even start doing that? That's where our issues begin.

 

[RescueRanger]

Refer to my reply above about gene theory. I understand its off topic, just clarifying some misconcepts.

Make a separate thread if you will. Gene theory is theory - i have seen documented evidence that disproves this. My own family have oral tradition of "Greek Genes" because almost all of us have green eyes. Having green eyes doesn't make us Greeks.

 

[iron shrapnel]

View attachment 153663
The Scud Bs are liquid fueled using kerosene and red fuming nitric acid. It is unlikely the liquid fuels have been kept intact for forty years. The TELs would have now been reduced to junk as well.
Scud B's have a range of 300 km, well within range of a Fatah 2 counter or pre-emptive strike. The Fatah crews certainly have all the coordinates. Any pre-launch activity observed by HUMINT or satellite reconnaissance will immediately result in a devastating Fatah-2 attack.

You don't need a Fatah 2 or 1 for that, slow flying drones doing surveillance and picking off relics like these is enough.... More focus should be on the howitzers

 

[iron shrapnel]

Make a separate thread if you will. Gene theory is theory - i have seen documented evidence that disproves this. My own family have oral tradition of "Greek Genes" because almost all of us have green eyes. Having green eyes doesn't make us Greeks.

Chakwalian or Potohari ?

 

[Falgrine]

Association is with Bani Israel, not with Judaism. Two completely different thing. Association with Bani Isreal is not a bad thing, in greater scheme of things, 80% of original Bani Israel is now Muslim.

I dont know if you remember or not, but I once interacted with you on the old forum regarding this theory. I presented my case with Biblical traditions / Tanakh data as the reference and had asserted that this Israelite origin of Pushtoon is just a fanciful myth.
I have spend more than a decade listening to Rabbis and even reading Tanakh (a hard copy of which I possess). So when I present my case, its not just an emotion rant or refutation for the sake of it.

I will try to get my posts from the older forum and copy the material here.

 

[RescueRanger]

Chakwalian or Potohari ?

No sir we are part farsiban.

 

[Taimoor]

Make a separate thread if you will. Gene theory is theory - i have seen documented evidence that disproves this. My own family have oral tradition of "Greek Genes" because almost all of us have green eyes. Having green eyes doesn't make us Greeks.

I would love to, i have researched this subject in depth for years. Someone mentioned it in the thread, was just replying to that. What scientific evidence you have seen? That since Pashtun gene do not match with today's Jews, they cant be Bani Israel?
Its not just oral tradition, they have family trees going back all the way to Talut, their customs, culture very much like ancient hebrews. And if you have notice, their language almost feel alien to the rest of Pakistan. You will see the pattern and inter mingling of other regional languages of Pakistan, between Punjabi, sareeki, Sindhi, baluchi. But with Pashto, its almost like something dropped in the middle from the sky.

 

[KingQamaR]

Bharat's last line of offense against Pakistan is the Last Afgans! It's an existential threat for them....

Days of Afghans ravaging into Pakistan are over.

 

[Aggregate]

You'd set a wrong precedence like that in our region
Central Asian countries are ethnic based nations due to leftist socialist policies
But our region from Iran to India are all multi ethnic nations with civic nationalism as it's core identity
At least theoretically
If you balkanize Afghanistan you'd open up a flood gate of similar demands in our own country eventually and a more dedicated/ furious demands for one nation from the Afghan side who's sole national identity would that be of a mono ethnic nation with no opposition.

Best scenario is to shift Afghan identity away from central Asian concept of ethnic based nationalism to a more Civic based one like it is in Iran, Pakistan, India etc

But how would you even start doing that? That's where our issues begin.

The problem here, is that Afghanistan, due to its core nature, just cannot be stable.
The Afghans from Central Asia (Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Tukemanistan, etc) want to take over or integrate the regions of their respective countries. Pashtuns want to disintegrate Durand line and take West of Pakistan in. Then they just do not like the Shia Iran. Finally, they cannot live with each other even if they break up the above 5 countries. Each of them have a stated goal of dominance

Why keep 5 surrounding countries in total, permanent turmoil, while Afghans permanently infight for dominance and also continue to fight outsiders at each side.

A far better solution is to let everyone integrate their own nationality and get this issue over with. Subcontinent disintegrated and has become a thing of the past. So can Afghanistan go with this option.

 

[ToddE]

This is a very long and separate subject. First thing first, in short, Pashtuns, themselves, draw their lineage with King Saul (Talut). Their tribal system ,their culture, is very similar to ancient Bani Israel, even their appearances. And with regards to genes, that is like comparing apples to oranges.

Genetics (real science of molecules, atoms and numerical) matter in real historical origin, folkfores built on modern religious or cultural sentiments do not matter an ounce in actual history. If you deny genetics of an ethnic group, you are basically denying scientific facts because of emotional fixation on folkfores.

Pashtuns, Baloch, Tajiks, Khorasanis, Pamiris are all eastern Iranics sharing almost same genetics of Iranian Neolithic/Chalcolithic farmers (Iran_N/Chl from Zagros Mountains) + Steppe MLBA (From Sintashta) + some mild East Asian in case of Tajiks or Indus Valley in case of Pashtuns/Baloch. All these genetic proportions are native to Iranic Plateaue from where these groups originated so its a matter of common sense.

Azeri = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + East Asian
Persian/Kurd/Lur/Caspian Iranics = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA
Pashtun/Afghan = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + mild Indus Valley
Baloch = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + mild Indus Valley
Tajiks/ Uzbeks/Turkomans = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + East Asian
Turkish = Iran_N + Anatolian Neolithic Farmers + Steppe MLBA + East Asian

If you plot a PCA, these groups overlap with eachother, away from Arabs, Jews, Indians etc.

What are you comparing with?

Iran_N
Iran_CHL
ANF
Levant_N
Steppe EMBA
Steppe MLBA
Ancient North Eurasian (ANE)
East Asian (EA)
Caucasus Hunter Gatherer (CHG)

..... etc.... are genetically verified terms of ancient found genoms in human remains from different times in past that we compare modern individual genome with to see which part of genome matches with which ancient genome. If thousands of people of same ethnicity show similar proportions of specific ancient genome (Iran_N/CHL + Steppe = Pashtun), this verifies the origin of that ethnicity. Thats how geneticists work.

Most of todays Jews, by their own account do not have pure lineage in them. By now, its more or less an open secret, that majority of today's Jews are infact from the lands of Khazar, which were basically converted Jews (not original Bani Isreal from the family tree of Jacob). So this "gene" thing is basically a non starter.

Their account or whatever folkfore was told to kids by their parents matter none, science does. Every ethnic Jew on earth comes from a totally different genetic clade of Natufian or Levant Neolithic Farmer (Levant_N) mixed with Anatolian Neolithic Farmer (ANF) and Steppe MLBA with mild variations of East African etc depending upon where they are from, even an Ashkenazi Blonde Jew from Germany will show these markers which totally different from Iranic groups like Pashtuns or Pamiris or Khorasanis.

 

[SABRE]

View attachment 153663
The Scud Bs are liquid fueled using kerosene and red fuming nitric acid. It is unlikely the liquid fuels have been kept intact for forty years. The TELs would have now been reduced to junk as well.
Scud B's have a range of 300 km, well within range of a Fatah 2 counter or pre-emptive strike. The Fatah crews certainly have all the coordinates. Any pre-launch activity observed by HUMINT or satellite reconnaissance will immediately result in a devastating Fatah-2 attack.

They launched few Scuds around the end of Soviet occupation. Weren't that effective.

 

[Broghil]

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Trade routes and airspace should be closed along with increasing the speed of deportations of illegal afghan nationals.
They are acting in the true sense of "main je boldi te men nai boldi, mere wich Mera YAAR bolda."

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Genetics (real science of molecules, atoms and numerical) matter in real historical origin, folkfores built on modern religious or cultural sentiments do not matter an ounce in actual history. If you deny genetics of an ethnic group, you are basically denying scientific facts because of emotional fixation on folkfores.

Pashtuns, Baloch, Tajiks, Khorasanis, Pamiris are all eastern Iranics sharing almost same genetics of Iranian Neolithic/Chalcolithic farmers (Iran_N/Chl from Zagros Mountains) + Steppe MLBA (From Sintashta) + some mild East Asian in case of Tajiks or Indus Valley in case of Pashtuns/Baloch. All these genetic proportions are native to Iranic Plateaue from where these groups originated so its a matter of common sense.

Azeri = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + East Asian
Persian/Kurd/Lur/Caspian Iranics = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA
Pashtun/Afghan = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + mild Indus Valley
Baloch = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + mild Indus Valley
Tajiks/ Uzbeks/Turkomans = Iran_N/CHL + Steppe MLBA + East Asian
Turkish = Iran_N + Anatolian Neolithic Farmers + Steppe MLBA + East Asian

If you plot a PCA, these groups overlap with eachother, away from Arabs, Jews, Indians etc.



Iran_N
Iran_CHL
ANF
Levant_N
Steppe EMBA
Steppe MLBA
Ancient North Eurasian (ANE)
East Asian (EA)
Caucasus Hunter Gatherer (CHG)

..... etc.... are genetically verified terms of ancient found genoms in human remains from different times in past that we compare modern individual genome with to see which part of genome matches with which ancient genome. If thousands of people of same ethnicity show similar proportions of specific ancient genome (Iran_N/CHL + Steppe = Pashtun), this verifies the origin of that ethnicity. Thats how geneticists work.



Their account or whatever folkfore was told to kids by their parents matter none, science does. Every ethnic Jew on earth comes from a totally different genetic clade of Natufian or Levant Neolithic Farmer (Levant_N) mixed with Anatolian Neolithic Farmer (ANF) and Steppe MLBA with mild variations of East African etc depending upon where they are from, even an Ashkenazi Blonde Jew from Germany will show these markers which totally different from Iranic groups like Pashtuns or Pamiris or Khorasanis.

dont mean to offend you, can you define/explain PCA in 2 or 3 lines?

will be really interesting to know!

how I would explain PCA to a child:

The volatility (or artificial value) of paper currency cannot be explained or determined until the first fossil-fueled ship and engine are developed.
(from the move, All the money in the world!)

or

The weight of a butterfly cannot be known before the caterpillar transforms into a butterfly