1st HANGOR Class Submarine of Pakistan Navy has been launched at Shuangliu

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Bro looks like you took it

Bro looks like you took it your heart. Correct me on facts. You told it took 24 years to make nuclear bomb which was totally wrong. Then you introduced new theory SLBM is more complex than nuclear program. Then you are giving optimistic number of SLCM ranges even shaheen 3 has 2750km quoted. your statements tells how much you know about tech and military doctrine and i never said i am totally correct or knows everything or I am an expert.

Where are $$$ to develop SLBM and SSBNs, and SLBM has more chances to being intercepted by Indian ABM system than SLCM

 

[Bentley777]

It was a different world in the 80's. A lot was possible without worrying on lot of other things. Pakistan was training and sending jihadists not only across Afghan border but towards Kashmir as well. Something that's not possible today. Pakistan had full US support, it was receiving funds. US were only concerned on defeating & hurting the soviets. They weren't concerned on anything else. Plus Pakistan was not under the thumb of IMF, there was no FATF watching closely etc. ................. Just imagine, if Pakistan would not have become nuclear power in 80s. Would it be possible to become nuclear power in today's world. Not a chance!..... So its a different world today.

Secondly, building a submarine that will carry a SLBMs with sole intent of nuclear strike is NOT going to happen for Pakistan. I don't see this happening in our lifetimes even if Pakistan transforms into a great economy. There's simply no need for it. Pakistan is not Russia or China. I don't understand when people consider Pakistan to be some world power. We have to be realistic in our assessments. Pakistan hardly has enough frigates and attack submarines to defeat IN fleet which is immediate concern. Why would Pakistan put time, money & effort on a platform that will most likely never going to be used in a war at all. Do you really think that Pakistan, an islamic state whose nuclear weapons are point of concern already for the western world will be allowed to do so especially when you are under their control via IMF and other tools.

As far as nuclear triad is concerned, our primary concern is not Russia, China or United States. Our primary and sole concern is India only. The limited range babur SLCM can carry nuclear weapon so the triad is sort of complete already (as far as india is concerned). BTW, india / Pakistan can never destroy each other completely at first place having limited war heads and being neighbors. So, Pakistan really have no need for SSBN with nuke tipped SLBMs. we really are no russia or china or major world power. Pakistan needs to get the economy fixed and then do tons of other things which should be priority even in military sector before such endeavor.

Totally independent nations may require or desire such global reach with lethal weapons. Such powerful nations can do their decisions themselves. Such nations can make their own foreign policy. I mean what we are going to do with such stuff when our position currently is such that we think that whether this PM would be acceptable to xyz country or not, should we say this thing or it will annoy a foreign power, etc.. We have to lower our expectations with the state and work step by step.


Lastly, you have to be satisfied that Pakistan Navy is on right track. It will become a formidable fleet with the addition of these subs and new surface ships. Just look back few years ago, it was almost nothing, just had 3 agosta subs and 4 F22Ps rest was complete junk. Even the 4 F22Ps with no proper air-defense. So, you should be happy how things have turned for Pakistan navy. They are focusing on immediate concern that's creating formidable A2/AD in our area of interest. All resources, effort is on platforms that add value to conventional strike capabilities, which are 100% sure to be used in a war

It was a different world in the 80's. A lot was possible without worrying on lot of other things. Pakistan was training and sending jihadists not only across Afghan border but towards Kashmir as well. Something that's not possible today. Pakistan had full US support, it was receiving funds. US were only concerned on defeating & hurting the soviets. They weren't concerned on anything else. Plus Pakistan was not under the thumb of IMF, there was no FATF watching closely etc. ................. Just imagine, if Pakistan would not have become nuclear power in 80s. Would it be possible to become nuclear power in today's world. Not a chance!..... So its a different world today.

Secondly, building a submarine that will carry a SLBMs with sole intent of nuclear strike is NOT going to happen for Pakistan. I don't see this happening in our lifetimes even if Pakistan transforms into a great economy. There's simply no need for it. Pakistan is not Russia or China. I don't understand when people consider Pakistan to be some world power. We have to be realistic in our assessments. Pakistan hardly has enough frigates and attack submarines to defeat IN fleet which is immediate concern. Why would Pakistan put time, money & effort on a platform that will most likely never going to be used in a war at all. Do you really think that Pakistan, an islamic state whose nuclear weapons are point of concern already for the western world will be allowed to do so especially when you are under their control via IMF and other tools.

As far as nuclear triad is concerned, our primary concern is not Russia, China or United States. Our primary and sole concern is India only. The limited range babur SLCM can carry nuclear weapon so the triad is sort of complete already (as far as india is concerned). BTW, india / Pakistan can never destroy each other completely at first place having limited war heads and being neighbors. So, Pakistan really have no need for SSBN with nuke tipped SLBMs. we really are no russia or china or major world power. Pakistan needs to get the economy fixed and then do tons of other things which should be priority even in military sector before such endeavor.

Totally independent nations may require or desire such global reach with lethal weapons. Such powerful nations can do their decisions themselves. Such nations can make their own foreign policy. I mean what we are going to do with such stuff when our position currently is such that we think that whether this PM would be acceptable to xyz country or not, should we say this thing or it will annoy a foreign power, etc.. We have to lower our expectations with the state and work step by step.


Lastly, you have to be satisfied that Pakistan Navy is on right track. It will become a formidable fleet with the addition of these subs and new surface ships. Just look back few years ago, it was almost nothing, just had 3 agosta subs and 4 F22Ps rest was complete junk. Even the 4 F22Ps with no proper air-defense. So, you should be happy how things have turned for Pakistan navy. They are focusing on immediate concern that's creating formidable A2/AD in our area of interest. All resources, effort is on platforms that add value to conventional strike capabilities, which are 100% sure to be used in a war.

You took it into the wrong domain no matter how much support was given was totally land and airforced conventional capability. navy has nothing to do we it. And still today defense budget is multiple times bigger than of 1980s. Every one brings IMF i understand they can cause good level of distributions but not totally stop it if this was the case they would have said decrease your nuclear war heads and also to stop your nuclear plants for making more war heads for future. But still it is your valid point of IMF threat. Again if there will be no nuclear war in the world why every nuclear power made nuclear triad they would restricted to only one domain. But they did not it because there is a saying "you never know" they knew that they invested heavily as much on deterence as possible and as many option available on table. To tell the enemy look dont dare to challenge us we will destroy you by using all 3 domains and they dont even share borders. In our case its even more imp we share the same border chance of war in just few hours is very highly and you want to hold back. It does not matter to me if we are super power are not. I am just patriotic pakistani. i cannot think about once again to something like 1971 to happen again as Bangladesh became independent. Will not allow india to bully us. So the solution in my view is to get out IMF and get stable economy and build these strategic assets if it might take a decade but do it for national cause. Lastley there is nothing to be satisfied with pak navy unfortunately but i am gonna blame they are being ignored and held back. India has both the things quality and quantity. They are having stealth frigates and destroyers. On our side type 054 frigates is good news but numbers needs to be doubled or atleast increase by 50 percent. Secondly why there is no destroyers in pak navy if some one can answer I will be thankful. We are going to pitch who against indian destroyers please dont say frigates. Submarines are looking good in diesel electric conventional subs in future bad on nuclear subs since there in no project going on officially. And the most imp what is pak answer to indian brahmos because they are fielding it on all three domians.

 

[Bentley777]

Where are $$$ to develop SLBM and SSBNs, and SLBM has more chances to being intercepted by Indian ABM system than SLCM

Your are right here there are less dollars but it is something that needs to be solved because it will effect national security if not now than in upcoming decade. In my view i will always say SLBM are better than SLCM doesnot mean that if anyone thinks SLCM are better is wrong. But i will bet on SLBM in any future conflict

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Same point poor economic situation is long term direct threat to national security. Which will widen the gap between two powers over the time. And the problem is nobody is thinking about it. I also expect SLBM capability in after mid 2035 and its the same point i am telling everyone no matter what national security amd territorial integrity can not be compromised.

And SLBM is not necessarily needed to counter the threats from India, SLBM can intercept quite easily by Indian layered ABM systems

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Your are right here there are less dollars but it is something that needs to be solved because it will effect national security if not now than in upcoming decade. In my view i will always say SLBM are better than SLCM doesnot mean that if anyone thinks SLCM are better is wrong. But i will bet on SLBM in any future conflict

Less dollar? What are you talking about? We are bankrupt in various departments, and why you don't try to understand SLBM is more easy target to Indian ABM systems than SLCM

 

[Zarvan]

Where are $$$ to develop SLBM and SSBNs, and SLBM has more chances to being intercepted by Indian ABM system than SLCM

MIRV equipped SLBM have more chances of going through. Specially if it's around 8 warheads in SLBM

 

[Zarvan]

Less dollar? What are you talking about? We are bankrupt in various departments, and why you don't try to understand SLBM is more easy target to Indian ABM systems than SLCM

You study SLBM and MIRV technology first.

 

[Tank131]

Less dollar? What are you talking about? We are bankrupt in various departments, and why you don't try to understand SLBM is more easy target to Indian ABM systems than SLCM

I dont get the fanciful notions people here are getting. Pakistan is getting loans from IMF, but people think its going to develop a any submarine from scratch, let alone an SSBN. Let it first have the means, and R&D capacity to develop an diesel submarine from scratch. Then graduate to SSN let alone an SSBN. THEN we can talk about an SSBN

 

[Zarvan]

I dont get the fanciful notions people here are getting. Pakistan is getting loans from IMF, but people think its going to develop a any submarine from scratch, let alone an SSBN. Let it first have the means, and R&D capacity to develop an diesel submarine from scratch. Then graduate to SSN let alone an SSBN. THEN we can talk about an SSBN

SSBN whenever comes will come from China. Or maybe a joint venture with Turkey. Not developing on our own. Even if tomorrow a miracle happens and Pakistan military budget jumps to 88 billion dollars still developing an SSBN completely on our own will be a stupid move

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

MIRV equipped SLBM have more chances of going through. Specially if it's around 8 warheads in SLBM

Do we have mired BMs (ababeel) carrying 8 warheads? I don't think so

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

You study SLBM and MIRV technology first.

Where is $$$ to develop SLBM? Lol we are bankrupt country right now

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

I dont get the fanciful notions people here are getting. Pakistan is getting loans from IMF, but people think its going to develop a any submarine from scratch, let alone an SSBN. Let it first have the means, and R&D capacity to develop an diesel submarine from scratch. Then graduate to SSN let alone an SSBN. THEN we can talk about an SSBN

Yes that's a right thinking but where are $$$ to do R&D even for diesel submarine from scratch?

 

[Zarvan]

Do we have mired BMs (ababeel) carrying 8 warheads? I don't think so

Yes Ababeel can carry 8 MIRV. Question is do we have Nuclear warheads this small in size. Ababeel can carry either 3 or 5 or 8 depending on the mission.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Yes Ababeel can carry 8 MIRV. Question is do we have Nuclear warheads this small in size. Ababeel can carry either 3 or 5 or 8 depending on the mission.

Lol source, backup of your claim that Ababeel can carry 8 warheads? Don't live in your lala land And fantasy world Mr

Most probably Ababeel can carry only 3 warheads with pen aids and decoys

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

You study SLBM and MIRV technology first.

I study SLBM and MIRV technology lot more than you, l know that you don't know about technical aspects of SLBM and MIRVs lol