1st HANGOR Class Submarine of Pakistan Navy has been launched at Shuangliu

Do you have a comprehension issue? Virginia class is more numerous than Ohio class subs and Virginia class is also main weapon for conventional attacks, where Ohio class subs are deterrence against Russia and China
So what? And I DID mention it.

Back in 70s and 80s, Los Angles class (the one that is replaced by Virginia class) was also more numerous than Ohio class.

SSNs are usually more numerous than SSBNs. That does not mean SSNs are replacement of SSBNs.

Virginia class is not a SSGN it is a SSN, atleast according to US Navy. Unless you know batter ofcourse!
 
That included as well. But Russian model also rely on its ICBMs dispersed on TELs to be launched from random landmass and it adds different dimension to its first/2nd strike capability.
Russia relies on Nuclear Triad. It deploys nuclear weapons from land sea and air.

But in Pak-India scenario, I am trying to explain to you how Pakistan dominate this sphere. Pakistan can fire its BMs from literally any terrain. India is very much limited when it comes to mobility. And no, TATA truck pulling the missile like a donkey is not TEL. :ROFLMAO:
There is no domination because Pakistan has very limited capabilities limited to some TELs and aircrafts. It is missing an entire leg of deterrance. Besides, India has a functional BMD.
 
So what? And I DID mention it.

Back in 70s and 80s, Los Angles class (the one that is replaced by Virginia class) was also more numerous than Ohio class.

SSNs are usually more numerous than SSBNs. That does not mean SSNs are replacement of SSBNs.

Virginia class is not a SSGN it is a SSN, atleast according to US Navy. Unless you know batter ofcourse!
Its not main weapons of USA but strategic deterrence against China and Russia and SSBN are more complex difficult than than SSGN and these submarine are super expensive to develop and operate, so Ohio and upcoming Colombia class is/will not main weapon of USA
 
Incase of sea, there is no terrain to hug. And you can not really launch a barrage of CMs from a sub. only a limited number of them that can be detected using IR sensors from satellites or using radars of airborne platforms and even drones like MQ-9B. Afterwards its a question of how to shoot it down. Many solutions for that. Simplest being a plane with a BVR.

What makes you think India will not make a massive first strike and take those platforms out?
The greatest asset of a submarine launched missile is that it is impossible to preempt.

If you field a SSBN, then you can rest assured that it will be almost impossible for your adversory to preemptively take out your nuclear capability.

What a comic show!

Kiddo, the cruise missile is going to attack a land target eventually right. There's no technology on earth that can detect every launch. You have developed no concept of geography, horizon, distances, detection capabilities in real world. Learned names of few weapon systems and having an illusion of security. Forget detecting submarines or it's launches, did you ever bothered why India couldn't provide a satellite photo of POST balakot strike ? Or Pre-strike for that matter ? A fixed target on earth. Are you one of the delusional ones that believes that F-16 was shot? If yes then why india miserably failed to give a single satellite photo of supposedly shot down F-16 debris ? They knew exact coordinates (as they showed powerpoint presentation and pointed to specific coordinates). So satellite can NEVER scan all the area. You need a million satellites to cover everything. You need probably a 100s of thousands of MQ9s to cover as big coastline as India's and even that wouldn't be enough. I am practically seeing someone living in fool's paradise.

I mean that's seriously hilarious that few delusional indians think they have some sort of missile shield. This is probably the biggest joke in defense forums ever. I mean literally ZERO knowledge about real world. There's no such thing possible with geography as big as india kiddo. Russia with all short range defenses, S-400s etc etc couldnt defend airbase in crimea.

As far as effectiveness of cruise missiles are concerned, these are going to hit a ground target in india 9 out of 10 times. I am being generous literally. Ground has complex terrain, you got huge geography with 1000s of miles to cover. Detecting a terrain-hugging missile and shooting it down is a daunting task. There will be hundreds or thousands of missile exchanges and airforces will majorly be busy with each other. Thinking of an illusion of a shield is just hilarious.

There's a reason why United States ALWAYS use Tomahawk cruise missiles to hit land targets. Cruise missiles are vulnerable in only few scenarios, like if its Anti-ship cruise missile and going towards a warship. Then ships are usually heavily defended, its a platform on a sea, it has to be packed with every sort of defense to protect it. But if CM is fired towards a land target then there's nothing stopping it. You can't pack every ground location in land with warship like defenses. The target isn't moving too, its fixed coordinates.

You shouldn't have said such things, after humiliation of indian brigade headquarters being targetted by stand off weapons at height of indian air defense. All that with video proofs. No air-defense, nothing fancy, no technology, no satellite stopped it. But yes you hit your own heli in panic. So be sure whenever there's going to be exchange of missiles, every missile is going to hit a target. India isn't a tiny space like Israel, try to understand.
 
What a comic show!

Kiddo, the cruise missile is going to attack a land target eventually right. There's no technology on earth that can detect every launch. You have developed no concept of geography, horizon, distances, detection capabilities in real world. Learned names of few weapon systems and having an illusion of security. Forget detecting submarines or it's launches, did you ever bothered why India couldn't provide a satellite photo of POST balakot strike ? Or Pre-strike for that matter ? A fixed target on earth. Are you one of the delusional ones that believes that F-16 was shot? If yes then why india miserably failed to give a single satellite photo of supposedly shot down F-16 debris ? They knew exact coordinates (as they showed powerpoint presentation and pointed to specific coordinates). So satellite can NEVER scan all the area. You need a million satellites to cover everything. You need probably a 100s of thousands of MQ9s to cover as big coastline as India's and even that wouldn't be enough. I am practically seeing someone living in fool's paradise.

I mean that's seriously hilarious that few delusional indians think they have some sort of missile shield. This is probably the biggest joke in defense forums ever. I mean literally ZERO knowledge about real world. There's no such thing possible with geography as big as india kiddo. Russia with all short range defenses, S-400s etc etc couldnt defend airbase in crimea.

As far as effectiveness of cruise missiles are concerned, these are going to hit a ground target in india 9 out of 10 times. I am being generous literally. Ground has complex terrain, you got huge geography with 1000s of miles to cover. Detecting a terrain-hugging missile and shooting it down is a daunting task. There will be hundreds or thousands of missile exchanges and airforces will majorly be busy with each other. Thinking of an illusion of a shield is just hilarious.

There's a reason why United States ALWAYS use Tomahawk cruise missiles to hit land targets. Cruise missiles are vulnerable in only few scenarios, like if its Anti-ship cruise missile and going towards a warship. Then ships are usually heavily defended, its a platform on a sea, it has to be packed with every sort of defense to protect it. But if CM is fired towards a land target then there's nothing stopping it. You can't pack every ground location in land with warship like defenses. The target isn't moving too, its fixed coordinates.

You shouldn't have said such things, after humiliation of indian brigade headquarters being targetted by stand off weapons at height of indian air defense. All that with video proofs. No air-defense, nothing fancy, no technology, no satellite stopped it. But yes you hit your own heli in panic. So be sure whenever there's going to be exchange of missiles, every missile is going to hit a target. India isn't a tiny space like Israel, try to understand.
I am sorry, but I do not respond to unfocused diatribes like this.
 
What makes you think India will not make a massive first strike and take those platforms out?
The greatest asset of a submarine launched missile is that it is impossible to preempt.

There should be a thread with the title "Most hillarious Comment".

Kiddo, do you think Indian subs can launch 1000s of missiles to take out all of the Pakistani platforms ? I mean what fantasy world these people really live in ??

Kiddo, If taking out platforms was that easy. US / UK would have been done and over with Houthis a long time ago. US would have not faced a humiliating withdrawal in AFG. They would not have lost from Vietnam. You are miserably failing to understand the value of geography, the inability to understand distances, and limitations of technology & weapons. You can't detect everything even on ground (forget about submarines at all... i mean your concepts are way Utopian like you're playing a computer game and not a real world). The mobile launchers are impossible to take out. They remain concealed and they are in huge numbers, can be in mountains, under ground, under the cover of trees, anywhere at all. There's no way on earth india can even think to do a first strike and take all these out. This is classic. Hope you'd understand a thing or two about real world from my lecture.
 
I am sorry, but I do not respond to unfocused diatribes like this.

hahaha, I know that's what losers do when you have ZERO counter arguments.

I mean, I am still laughing there exist a delusional indian who thinks india can take out all the launchers of Pakistan in first strike. (I mean even US couldn't dream this against technologically so inferior Houthis). What kind of joker can say such things.

Then you say that India can survive all the missiles attack LMAO!!!!.... Yes if you focus your entire military to defend Delhi then I can say that you will be able to protect Delhi (maybe) . But if you have such a massive LOC, massive Coastline..... Then you are pretty much naked (90% of the area). Practically speaking, You need 100s of trillions of dollars of equipment to have some sort of defense in entirety of indian borders. Indo/Pak deterance is attack capabilities. The defence is only for handful of specific locations and that too is not impregnable. That too is totally vulnerable.
 
When one starts talking about F-16s in a discussion of submarine, we know that it is no longer worthwhile talking.

Never wrestle with a pig because you'll both get dirty and the pig likes it. --- GB Shaw.
He is just giving you an example, you think you're immune to any attacks from the enemy
 
When one starts talking about F-16s in a discussion of submarine, we know that it is no longer worthwhile talking.

Never wrestle with a pig because you'll both get dirty and the pig likes it. --- GB Shaw.

Wow what a lame excuse my little sensitive kiddie. Oh kiddo did I talk about F-16's warfare or anything? Or was it specifically reference to the discussion in hand. Such a lame excuse.

About your other comment,
Never knew you call yourself a pig, I couldn't wrestle you even If I wanted. As you just bent over, pants down and hands up.
 
Nothing is easy. Real world is very different. Look Russia / Ukraine war closely. India has way huge coastline. IMPOSSIBLE to defend. Subsonics / terrain hugging missiles will easily hit land targets if fired from the sea. 24/7, peak of alert level and 4 world powers were required to defend tiny israeli airspace with most advance air-defence systems. India do not have a tiny airspace to defend. All that tech in the world can't beat geography. When the indonesian sub was lost, they knew the spot where it went missing, US sent P-8s and all other stuff, so many countries spend so much time and still it took days to find it. Just imagine, how difficult would it be to find a submarine that's intentionally trying to remain hidden. You never know where is submarine and it can fire missiles from anywhere. There's no way india can deploy systems to defend every point of its huge coastline. No country other than tiny israel can implement such a missile shield. Its only an illusion. Even for the israel, Iran wanted to give only a message / a warning, it really wasn't looking for escalation.
And not just this , Iran manage to successfully breach baby killers' air space, I think something like 7+ confirmed hits...world super powers couldn't save such a tiny airspace and here we have our Indian guests boasting they'll intercept our missiles -as if we will only fire one at a time and give heads up(one coming at 7pm, another 8pm, here is the location etc) LOL
 
Kind of agree with that. I think SLBM tech is not an issue its not something new its decades old tech. It will takes max 4 to 5 years to make it . The main problem SSBN its is expensive keeping in mind operational and maintenance cost also. I think navy played smart with the available options and resources by trying to get SLCM first . but Its time to start project of SSBN we can take onboard some countries like turkey and also china for some input. Some one told me india navy plans to add 6 nuclear submarines in next 10 years or so. So it will be wise to start investing and gradually make progress on this project it can take time but once it will completed it will be very fruitful.

The issue for Pakistan is India economy prediction for 2050 is around 40Trillion PPP and Pakistan is 4 Trillion PPP, current India has 14 Trillion v Pakistan 1.4 Trillion. India will use its economic power to build a powerful military, especially strategic force, they will end up with alot of aircraft carriers, nuclear ballistic missile submarines and Pakistan will struggle to keep up. Today we need Nuclear Ballistic missile submarines but we cannot afford it and this is why our navy went instead for 8 submarines, an excellent decision looking at our situation. The future will be India will have 3x powerful military than Pakistan, if we have 12 Submarines they will have 36, if we have 500 fighter jets India will have 1500. I would say mid 2030s Pakistan could look at nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines but no matter what we will establish a minimum deterrence to defend Pakistan.
 
He is just giving you an example, you think you're immune to any attacks from the enemy
You know the pattern. He brings in F-16 in submarine, I bring in 71 in 2024. It goes no where. So better idea is not to respond to such emotive posts. Out of topic and out of context posts seldom help.
 

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