1st HANGOR Class Submarine of Pakistan Navy has been launched at Shuangliu

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

What makes you think India will not make a massive first strike and take those platforms out?
The greatest asset of a submarine launched missile is that it is impossible to preempt.

If you field a SSBN, then you can rest assured that it will be almost impossible for your adversory to preemptively take out your nuclear capability.

Why USA has main force of SSGN rather than SSBN?

 

[CynicalPakistaniCritic]

whos "they" lol.

Fringe elements in larger groups? The vocal minority? This same rhetoric is going to turn Pakistan into 5 different states. You have 3/5 territories with legitimate concerns, where people are treated like second class citizens.

Remember Nawaz referring to Pakhtuns as idiots, or in more recent times, Maryam suggesting checkpoints on roads from KPK to counter insurgency...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1776240772817293444

This rhetoric of collective punishment/blame is what is going to end up causing Pakistan to divide.

Blaming entire ethnic groups for policy failure at the hands of the government has stirred up animosity, then quelling that animosity via force instead of actually listening to their concerns created the separatism. Had the government not deprived the Balochis of development and investment, im sure none of this would be news. Instead, there is lack of opportunity, lack of outlook, lack of trust, leading men to join groups to earn for their family and become indoctrinated, creating violence. We will see the same in KP too soon enough, sindh too etc.

Balochistan is rich in minerals, the government has ample opportunity to provide work and reap rewards from their investments into the province. Instead, the corrupt dealings with the Chinese and other outsiders has lead to Baluchis being replaced by outsiders. The GAME CHANGER CPEC involved the Chinese shipping out labour from China instead of hiring local workers, with the large majority, being flown in, on inflated salaries from China, paid for by Chinese loans to Pakistan lol. In whos mind was this a good idea??? Chinese fishing boats literally illegally fish within gwadar depriving local fishermen of their sole source of income.

By Allah if i was a baluchi or a pakhtun and i was seeing stuff like this in front of my eyes, id have picked up arms too. Why on earth be loyal to a state who could not give a damn about me or my people, a state who is only interested in exploiting my land.

Instead of demographic engineering or giving up, there is a third option, a proper option, the right option:

Listen to the concerns had grievances of these people, work with them in a conclusive manner to solve them. Create a future, an outlook for these people, winning the hearts and minds. Like India is doing in Kashmir lol, IOK is developing at a rapid pace, you think theyre going to ever look towards a state like Pakistan and say yes, we want to leave India and join Pakistan, no, never. Fringe elements will always exist, however, a happy, thriving majority will always quash those minorities.

I am just being realistic with you, I have interacted with many of them and the idea it's a minority only isn't true. Just leaving it there.

But I can almost assure you that you will fight a pointless never ending war for decades that still won't end without the solution I've given you

There's a reason why Pakistan is failing at this while Turkey, Iran, even India now, China, are doing better. At the end the pragmatic non-moralistic stance works.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

What makes you think India will not make a massive first strike and take those platforms out?
The greatest asset of a submarine launched missile is that it is impossible to preempt.

If you field a SSBN, then you can rest assured that it will be almost impossible for your adversory to preemptively take out your nuclear capability.

And we have no defense to stop your first strike lol

 

[DevendraRajput]

Why USA has main force of SSGN rather than SSBN?

Pardon me, but majority (14) of Ohio class subs are SSBN. SSGN are only 4 and not all tomohawk they carry are nuclear tipped.

Besides, the reason why US moved towards SSGN was START II treaty.

 

[DevendraRajput]

And we have no defense to stop your first strike lol

Actually, you do not have even ability to detect the launches much less defend against it.

 

[Taimoor]

What makes you think India will not make a massive first strike and take those platforms out?
The greatest asset of a submarine launched missile is that it is impossible to preempt.

If you field a SSBN, then you can rest assured that it will be almost impossible for your adversory to preemptively take out your nuclear capability.

Pakistan already dominate the first and second strike capability with India. If you pay close attention, all of Pakistan strategic force is base on TEL. Mobility on land and on different terrain. All of Pakistan missiles tests are done out in open in desolated places, Pakistan do not need a specific missile bases per say, can easily disperse its strategic force across is land mass and maintain first and second strike capability, the Russian model. However, Indian land base missiles do not have such mobility and can be easily wiped out in first strike. Having sea based capability is pressing need for India.

 

[DevendraRajput]

Pakistan already dominate the first and second strike capability with India. If you pay close attention, all of Pakistan strategic force is base on TEL. Mobility on land and on different terrain. All of Pakistan missiles tests are done out in open in desolated places, Pakistan do not need a specific missile bases per say, can easily disperse its strategic force across is land mass and maintain first and second strike capability, the Russian model. However, Indian land base missiles do not have such mobility and can be easily wiped out in first strike. Having sea based capability is pressing need for India.

I am sorry but Russian model includes MASSIVE number of missiles loaded on submarines too. Their Borei class subs and Delta IV class subs come to mind. They have about 13 or so subs each capable of carrying 16 missile having 3-4 (treaty limited) warheads.

What you are saying is simply not how world sees strategic dettrance. Nuclear triad needs survivable submarine launched missiles. Cruise missiles are good for conventional attack but not really a replacement for ballistic nuclear missiles.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Actually, you do not have even ability to detect the launches much less defend against it.

Lol and how do you know we have no ability to detect and defend ourselves from launches from you? Please explain

 

[DevendraRajput]

Lol and how do you know we have no ability to detect and defend ourselves from launches from you? Please explain

Excuse me, but it works the other way round. Pakistan has to demonstrate that it has the capability not the other way round. We do not assume capabiltiies by default.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Pardon me, but majority (14) of Ohio class subs are SSBN. SSGN are only 4 and not all tomohawk they carry are nuclear tipped.

Besides, the reason why US moved towards SSGN was START II treaty.

Ever heard Virginia class SSGN, these are far more than Ohio class in numbers 30+, and do research before you post

 

[Taimoor]

I am sorry but Russian model includes MASSIVE number of missiles loaded on submarines too. Their Borei class subs and Delta IV class subs come to mind. They have about 13 or so subs each capable of carrying 16 missile having 3-4 (treaty limited) warheads.

That included as well. But Russian model also rely on its ICBMs dispersed on TELs to be launched from random landmass and it adds different dimension to its first/2nd strike capability.

But in Pak-India scenario, I am trying to explain to you how Pakistan dominate this sphere. Pakistan can fire its BMs from literally any terrain. India is very much limited when it comes to mobility. And no, TATA truck pulling the missile like a donkey is not TEL.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

So

Excuse me, but it works the other way round. Pakistan has to demonstrate that it has the capability not the other way round. We do not assume capabiltiies by default.

You're just speculating but you have no argument to support your baseless assumptions conspiracy theories that we are not able to detect and counter your launches

 

[DevendraRajput]

Ever heard Virginia class SSGN, these are far more than Ohio class in numbers 30+, and do research before you post

Virginia class is a SSN (https://www.navy.mil/Resources/Fact-Files/Display-FactFiles/Article/2169558/attack-submarines-ssn/) , supposed to replace Los Angles class submarine. Its primary purpose is to attack ships, subs and land targets too using torpedos and cruise missiles.

Its not a strategic weapon platform or replacement for SSBNs. US is not retiring Ohio class subs in favour of Virginia class SSNs.

Infact, USA is building Columbia class submarine to replace Ohio class submarine. Columbia class is a SSBN.

SSNs are naturally going to be more numerous because they provide a capability that is more needed. Attack surface and submurged vessels and coastal targets.

Even during cold war, Los Angles class were much more numerous than ohio class.

 

[DevendraRajput]

So
You're just speculating but you have no argument to support your baseless assumptions conspiracy theories that we are not able to detect and counter your launches

All I am saying is that I do not think Pakistan is having any capability to detect (and much less defend against) Indian ballistic missile launches because it never demonstrated one.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Virginia class is a SSN (https://www.navy.mil/Resources/Fact-Files/Display-FactFiles/Article/2169558/attack-submarines-ssn/) , supposed to replace Los Angles class submarine. Its primary purpose is to attack ships, subs and land targets too using torpedos and cruise missiles.

Its not a strategic weapon platform or replacement for SSBNs. US is not retiring Ohio class subs in favour of Virginia class SSNs.

Infact, USA is building Columbia class submarine to replace Ohio class submarine. Columbia class is a SSBN.

SSNs are naturally going to be more numerous because they provide a capability that is more needed. Attack surface and submurged vessels and coastal targets.

Do you have a comprehension issue? Virginia class is more numerous than Ohio class subs and Virginia class is also main weapon for conventional attacks, where Ohio class subs are deterrence against Russia and China