1st HANGOR Class Submarine of Pakistan Navy has been launched at Shuangliu

Oh. I am so sorry, I thought I was talking to a person who knew what they were talking about.
My mistake.

I thought you knew your stuff. The difference between strategic nuclear carrying missiles and others.
And the kill probabilities against each.
All ballistic missiles can have pen aids and decoys whether it can carry nuclear warheads or not, does this explain to you, you are acting like 4 year old kid
 
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Gwadar is dead as long as you have a ethnofacist baloch running around.
The only solution to the Balochistan problem is by dealing with it like how Iran does.

Create new towns & cities and diversify the population so their ethnofacist sentiments make no sense. Make Gwadar a multi ethnic diverse city - a mini-Pakistan.

Make several small towns like this across Balochistans coast, settle some Pashtuns, Sindhis, Punjabis.

When you have a concrete plan like this, it doesn't matter if BLA attacks for 10 years - 20 years, eventually it won't even be able to survive due to diversified population.
 
No SLBM are more complex technology than you think and with a current economy its will take extremely long time to complete both projects 25 to 30 years to complete and don't think that China or some other countries will help you to develop SSBN/SLBM projects because these technologies are their top secret and strategic techs
Nothing is easy in this world who gave us nuclear tech. At that time every one would be saying same. what your are saying now but state made sure we will make it if state wants it is nothing is impossible. Timings of project completion can debatable.
 
The only solution to the Balochistan problem is by dealing with it like how Iran does.

Create new towns & cities and diversify the population so their ethnofacist sentiments make no sense. Make Gwadar a multi ethnic diverse city - a mini-Pakistan.

Make several small towns like this across Balochistans coast, settle some Pashtuns, Sindhis, Punjabis.

When you have a concrete plan like this, it doesn't matter if BLA attacks for 10 years - 20 years, eventually it won't even be able to survive due to diversified population.
Man no one wants to go their just to be killed. The only way you can stabilise it by putting armed settlers there.
 
Man no one wants to go their just to be killed. The only way you can stabilise it by putting armed settlers there.
Or just create safe towns & cities with strong surveillance/security and people being disarmed.

Whatever it is my original post is the only effective solution and that's how Iran is dealing with it and likely Turkey too. The best way to destroy ethnofacist tendencies is just diversify demographics that its no longer practical.
 
Make several small towns like this across Balochistans coast, settle some Pashtuns, Sindhis, Punjabis
This is ethnic cleansing by demographic engineering.Balochs are already concerned about huge influx of afghans into their areas

Better approach is to develop the trust of public into System of the country but we now for that to happen sepoys will have to be sent back to barracks
 
This is ethnic cleansing by demographic engineering.Balochs are already concerned about huge influx of afghans into their areas

Better approach is to develop the trust of public into System of the country but we now for that to happen sepoys will have to be sent back to barracks
Ethnic cleansing means to murder all inhabitants. There is no such plan in fact Balochs have expanded into Sindh and Southern Punjab themselves.

Besides they don't want your trust or anything from you, they want a separate ethnic state. They blow up your investments and kill your teachers that you send.

You have two options if you are a serious country, demographic engineering (which is what Turkey & Iran are doing), or just surrender. Being indecisive and running with your tail tucked in is pointless stalemate. You are wasting soldier lives for nothing.

Have you ever spoken to pro-BLA baloch? They don't want your development or trust, it's about an independent ethnic homeland. Similar to Kashmir.
 

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AERIAL WARRIOR
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Hangor class modified Type-039B Weapons & Sensors integration process would take approx one year Mid 2025 ;
Second Sub platform launch expected within next quarter.


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Nothing is easy in this world who gave us nuclear tech. At that time every one would be saying same. what your are saying now but state made sure we will make it if state wants it is nothing is impossible. Timings of project completion can debatable.
Our nuclear program started in 70s and we detonated nuclear weapons in 98, and SLBM and SSBN projects will be more complex and difficult than our nuclear program was and our nuclear program had started when then we were relatively stable on political and economic terms, we don't have these conditions currently, think about it
 
Your facts are totally wrong we were ready for testing in 1 week in just start of 1980s. AQ khan told this multiple times its was only due only because political establishment orders. which were given after india tested 2nd time. SLBM program will be harder than nuclear program are you serious 😫 and what will be the gdp of pak in 1980 if debt was low so was the gdp in 1980s
 
what will be the gdp of pak in 1980 if debt was low so was the gdp in 1980s

It was a different world in the 80's. A lot was possible without worrying on lot of other things. Pakistan was training and sending jihadists not only across Afghan border but towards Kashmir as well. Something that's not possible today. Pakistan had full US support, it was receiving funds. US were only concerned on defeating & hurting the soviets. They weren't concerned on anything else. Plus Pakistan was not under the thumb of IMF, there was no FATF watching closely etc. ................. Just imagine, if Pakistan would not have become nuclear power in 80s. Would it be possible to become nuclear power in today's world. Not a chance!..... So its a different world today.

Secondly, building a submarine that will carry a SLBMs with sole intent of nuclear strike is NOT going to happen for Pakistan. I don't see this happening in our lifetimes even if Pakistan transforms into a great economy. There's simply no need for it. Pakistan is not Russia or China. I don't understand when people consider Pakistan to be some world power. We have to be realistic in our assessments. Pakistan hardly has enough frigates and attack submarines to defeat IN fleet which is immediate concern. Why would Pakistan put time, money & effort on a platform that will most likely never going to be used in a war at all. Do you really think that Pakistan, an islamic state whose nuclear weapons are point of concern already for the western world will be allowed to do so especially when you are under their control via IMF and other tools.

As far as nuclear triad is concerned, our primary concern is not Russia, China or United States. Our primary and sole concern is India only. The limited range babur SLCM can carry nuclear weapon so the triad is sort of complete already (as far as india is concerned). BTW, india / Pakistan can never destroy each other completely at first place having limited war heads and being neighbors. So, Pakistan really have no need for SSBN with nuke tipped SLBMs. we really are no russia or china or major world power. Pakistan needs to get the economy fixed and then do tons of other things which should be priority even in military sector before such endeavor.

Totally independent nations may require or desire such global reach with lethal weapons. Such powerful nations can do their decisions themselves. Such nations can make their own foreign policy. I mean what we are going to do with such stuff when our position currently is such that we think that whether this PM would be acceptable to xyz country or not, should we say this thing or it will annoy a foreign power, etc.. We have to lower our expectations with the state and work step by step.


Lastly, you have to be satisfied that Pakistan Navy is on right track. It will become a formidable fleet with the addition of these subs and new surface ships. Just look back few years ago, it was almost nothing, just had 3 agosta subs and 4 F22Ps rest was complete junk. Even the 4 F22Ps with no proper air-defense. So, you should be happy how things have turned for Pakistan navy. They are focusing on immediate concern that's creating formidable A2/AD in our area of interest. All resources, effort is on platforms that add value to conventional strike capabilities, which are 100% sure to be used in a war.
 
This is ethnic cleansing by demographic engineering.Balochs are already concerned about huge influx of afghans into their areas

Better approach is to develop the trust of public into System of the country but we now for that to happen sepoys will have to be sent back to barracks

Any Pakistani should be able to move anywhere inside Pakistan without threat from ethnocentric jahils

We should have law and order to crack down on any lannat who tries to attack innocent people
 
Or just create safe towns & cities with strong surveillance/security and people being disarmed.
Make several small towns like this across Balochistans coast, settle some Pashtuns, Sindhis, Punjabis.

This is both off-topic and non-practical. Don't understand how this is related to submarines.

I'd only like to mention the flaw in your approach for tackling security issue: Making all new cities / towns with strong security, all other necessities requires massive fund. Secondly, for cities & towns, you need people. Have you developed Balochistan in a manner that it can attract people? Job opportunities, good schooling, security etc. Not at all! Lastly, If your solution revolves around bringing people from other provinces and neglecting locals then its bound to fail at first place. Will only aggravate the situation. The primary solution is empowering & respecting locals. Sooner you learn the better.
 
Ethnic cleansing means to murder all inhabitants. There is no such plan in fact Balochs have expanded into Sindh and Southern Punjab themselves.

Besides they don't want your trust or anything from you, they want a separate ethnic state. They blow up your investments and kill your teachers that you send.

You have two options if you are a serious country, demographic engineering (which is what Turkey & Iran are doing), or just surrender. Being indecisive and running with your tail tucked in is pointless stalemate. You are wasting soldier lives for nothing.

Have you ever spoken to pro-BLA baloch? They don't want your development or trust, it's about an independent ethnic homeland. Similar to Kashmir.
whos "they" lol.

Fringe elements in larger groups? The vocal minority? This same rhetoric is going to turn Pakistan into 5 different states. You have 3/5 territories with legitimate concerns, where people are treated like second class citizens.

Remember Nawaz referring to Pakhtuns as idiots, or in more recent times, Maryam suggesting checkpoints on roads from KPK to counter insurgency...

This rhetoric of collective punishment/blame is what is going to end up causing Pakistan to divide.

Blaming entire ethnic groups for policy failure at the hands of the government has stirred up animosity, then quelling that animosity via force instead of actually listening to their concerns created the separatism. Had the government not deprived the Balochis of development and investment, im sure none of this would be news. Instead, there is lack of opportunity, lack of outlook, lack of trust, leading men to join groups to earn for their family and become indoctrinated, creating violence. We will see the same in KP too soon enough, sindh too etc.

Balochistan is rich in minerals, the government has ample opportunity to provide work and reap rewards from their investments into the province. Instead, the corrupt dealings with the Chinese and other outsiders has lead to Baluchis being replaced by outsiders. The GAME CHANGER CPEC involved the Chinese shipping out labour from China instead of hiring local workers, with the large majority, being flown in, on inflated salaries from China, paid for by Chinese loans to Pakistan lol. In whos mind was this a good idea??? Chinese fishing boats literally illegally fish within gwadar depriving local fishermen of their sole source of income.

By Allah if i was a baluchi or a pakhtun and i was seeing stuff like this in front of my eyes, id have picked up arms too. Why on earth be loyal to a state who could not give a damn about me or my people, a state who is only interested in exploiting my land.

Instead of demographic engineering or giving up, there is a third option, a proper option, the right option:

Listen to the concerns had grievances of these people, work with them in a conclusive manner to solve them. Create a future, an outlook for these people, winning the hearts and minds. Like India is doing in Kashmir lol, IOK is developing at a rapid pace, you think theyre going to ever look towards a state like Pakistan and say yes, we want to leave India and join Pakistan, no, never. Fringe elements will always exist, however, a happy, thriving majority will always quash those minorities.
 

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