Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

[Waz]

679 is a good total, I'd say make it 1,000. Then talk to the Turks and have a heavier tank as force multiplier. Pakistan's strike corps are building up nicely.

 

[Harbyharb]

679 is a good total, I'd say make it 1,000. Then talk to the Turks and have a heavier tank as force multiplier. Pakistan's strike corps are building up nicely.

Introducing the Altay would mean introducing a completely different set of maintenance heavy subsystems, such as new engine/transmission, 120mm L55 gun system, NATO 120x570mm ammunition, etc. I would rather the PA not repeat the mistake of IA of acquiring vehicles of unspeakable number of sources with incompatible ammunition and systems, thus making logistics slow, sloppy, and sad.

What Altay does offer is stronger frontal protection (especially against kinetic) as well as more powerful darts using one piece 120x570mm NATO, while losing out on more powerful anti-personnel/structure potential and indirect fire ability, lighter burden on infrastructure, and improved strategic mobility. Given the experience of tank warfare in Ukraine, I'd say such decision may be, questionable.

 

[Waz]

Introducing the Altay would mean introducing a completely different set of maintenance heavy subsystems, such as new engine/transmission, 120mm L55 gun system, NATO 120x570mm ammunition, etc. I would rather the PA not repeat the mistake of IA of acquiring vehicles of unspeakable number of sources with incompatible ammunition and systems, thus making logistics slow, sloppy, and sad.

What Altay does offer is stronger frontal protection (especially against kinetic) as well as more powerful darts using one piece 120x570mm NATO, while losing out on more powerful anti-personnel/structure potential and indirect fire ability, lighter burden on infrastructure, and improved strategic mobility. Given the experience of tank warfare in Ukraine, I'd say such decision may be, questionable.

All solid counter points. I'd say in small numbers the corresponding support mechanisms, supply chains etc should be manageable.

 

[Be dazzled]

Base armor and ERA are different in PA VT4.

 

[Smoke]

This is great news!

 

[Harbyharb]

Which other AIFV options are there ?

The most obvious answer would be the VN-11A IFV, if we are going with building entirely Chinese-armed units to simplify command, cooperation, and logistics, going along with Al-Haider, Azar MLRS, SH-15 SPH, etc. The VN-11A is the export variant of ZBD-04A employed by PLA, featuring okay protection (STANAG 4569 V) and an indigenous version of the Bakhcha-U weapon complex (100mm low pressure gun-launcher and 30mm 2A72 autocannon), which offers very powerful and enduring anti-personnel and anti-structure support firepower.

However, if the focus for this IFV is for high threat urban counter-insurgency operation, Norinco also offers the VN-20 IFV based on an inverted Al-haider chassis, which not only offers STANAG 4569 VI protection, but more importantly front and side ERA module coverage with the option to mount APS system. In the given context against infantry anti-tank weapons and ATGM positions, the VN-20's survivability can match that of the Al-haider, while offering good suppressive firepower - the VN-20 have the option to either mount a Bakhcha-U or a non-penetrative 30mm unmanned turret depending on the demand.

 

[Signalian]

The most obvious answer would be the VN-11A IFV, if we are going with building entirely Chinese-armed units to simplify command, cooperation, and logistics, going along with Al-Haider, Azar MLRS, SH-15 SPH, etc. The VN-11A is the export variant of ZBD-04A employed by PLA, featuring okay protection (STANAG 4569 V) and an indigenous version of the Bakhcha-U weapon complex (100mm low pressure gun-launcher and 30mm 2A72 autocannon), which offers very powerful and enduring anti-personnel and anti-structure support firepower.

However, if the focus for this IFV is for high threat urban counter-insurgency operation, Norinco also offers the VN-20 IFV based on an inverted Al-haider chassis, which not only offers STANAG 4569 VI protection, but more importantly front and side ERA module coverage with the option to mount APS system. In the given context against infantry anti-tank weapons and ATGM positions, the VN-20's survivability can match that of the Al-haider, while offering good suppressive firepower - the VN-20 have the option to either mount a Bakhcha-U or a non-penetrative 30mm unmanned turret depending on the demand.

As per terrain, wheeled vehicles seem a better option, which means an MRAP that can withstand lots of beating. Its just painful to see MBTs standing in sheds while men lose lives in the other half of the country.

 

[Harbyharb]

As per terrain, wheeled vehicles seem a better option, which means an MRAP that can withstand lots of beating. Its just painful to see MBTs standing in sheds while men lose lives in the other half of the country.

I think what you really mean is that wheeled vehicles enjoys smaller logistics footprint, less reliance on infrastructure, much greater motor hours, and lower cost for deployment, therefore enjoying far superior deployability and strategic mobility, because in raw tactical mobility in difficult terrain, tracked vehicles are still the way to go.

Again, if sourcing from Norinco, affordable VN-1 6x6 (export variant of the indigenous ZBL-08) and high-end VN-22 6x6 IFVs are both available, bringing unmanned 30mm autocannon turret and ATGM to the table, aside from MRAP/JLTV equivalent multi-purpose vehicle and anti-IED vehicles armed with weapon stations with heavy machine guns. Although, the survivability for wheeled IFVs are primarily focused and judged by resistance against small arms, large caliber machine guns, and auto cannons (STANAG 4569 standard), with no real tangible defense against HEAT weapons such as RPGs and ATGMs aside from fire fighting and spall liners that helps to reduce post-penetration damage against equipment and personnel.

Wheeled vehicles and units equipped with them should either be deployed as long-endurance, deep-strike units such as French wheeled units during Op. Serval, making use of light logistics burden, great motor hours, and on-road mobility, or deployed as patrol vehicle along important routes and areas. Their survivability depends on mobility and suppressive firepower - they complement, not replace tracked units.

 

[Waz]

Chances may have gone low... But it takes only one incident to start it. Ukrainian war and Palestinian conflict have shown the need to possess credible conventional forces at all times. For me, times of conventional war are not gone.

Moreover, the rocky terrain towards our west is mostly not suitable to rubber padded armor vehicles. The tracks will turn to wafer in no time.

Bro is it 679 for sure? Add that to 750 Al-Khalid 1 and 2's and 320 T-80UD's that's 1,749 modern MBT's. This is impressive and gives the army a massive armored punch, especially combined with the large number of mobile artillery, APC's and drones.
I didn't count the Al-Zarrar due to age and it seems to be used for COIN?

 

[Panzerkiel]

Bro is it 679 for sure?

Nopes, figure is much less..

 

[IceCold]

The two weapons that brought pain to terrorists were MBTs and AH-1s, both of which are not in the scenario right now. What a T-59 or AZ can do, a VT-4 can do much better, with the fear and the firepower.

Provided you have diesel for them!

 

[Archie]

Which Tank is the VT4 replacing, also didn't you guys purchased them in 2020 during Bajwa's Tenure.
Tanks have a long lifespan, if upgraded and maintained regularly , they could serve for 50-60 years.
American M1A2 Abrams and Russian T-72M have been in service since 1970s and will likely continue to see frontline service well into 2030s or even 2040

India currently has 1950 T-72M Ajeya , which were last upgraded between 2008-12
We also had 468 T-72A which were inducted between 1978-84 and were not upgraded and kept in storage as spares .

If you guys believe in conspiracies spread by the likes of Zaid Hamid, then all the T-72s in Indian storage were sent to Russia in the guise of overhaul and upgrade in 2021-22, but instead are now being used to replenish Russian losses of MBTs in Ukraine

Indian Army believes that we need a light tank for our border with China ,
Hence we see the development of 25-30 Ton Zorawar Tank which could replace a major chunk of our T-72 Fleet .
Indian army plans to induct 300 Zorawar tanks in first phase and retire another 450 T-72M , which will initially be sent to storage from active duty and then could find themselves in the hand of some friendly ally

 

[Bilal]

very information dense video



97% of VT-4 gun indigenized, 3% underway.

New version of Viper IFV.

New welded turret of AZ tank

Gun barrel manufacturing.

Much much more.

 

[Bilal]

 

[Signalian]

Provided you have diesel for them!

The TD-type engines make it possible to use jet fuel (kerosene) and petrol along with diesel fuel aka Multi-fuel.

Moreover, the rocky terrain towards our west is mostly not suitable to rubber padded armor vehicles. The tracks will turn to wafer in no time.

M48 Patton had different type of tracks, which were they ?