Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

[Lion]

Bro is it 679 for sure? Add that to 750 Al-Khalid 1 and 2's and 320 T-80UD's that's 1,749 modern MBT's. This is impressive and gives the army a massive armored punch, especially combined with the large number of mobile artillery, APC's and drones.
I didn't count the Al-Zarrar due to age and it seems to be used for COIN?

750 Al-Khalid is also too high, there are only 321 Al-Khalids and 120 Al-Khalid-1s.

 

[Lion]

Which Tank is the VT4 replacing, also didn't you guys purchased them in 2020 during Bajwa's Tenure.
Tanks have a long lifespan, if upgraded and maintained regularly , they could serve for 50-60 years.
American M1A2 Abrams and Russian T-72M have been in service since 1970s and will likely continue to see frontline service well into 2030s or even 2040

India currently has 1950 T-72M Ajeya , which were last upgraded between 2008-12
We also had 468 T-72A which were inducted between 1978-84 and were not upgraded and kept in storage as spares .

If you guys believe in conspiracies spread by the likes of Zaid Hamid, then all the T-72s in Indian storage were sent to Russia in the guise of overhaul and upgrade in 2021-22, but instead are now being used to replenish Russian losses of MBTs in Ukraine

Indian Army believes that we need a light tank for our border with China ,
Hence we see the development of 25-30 Ton Zorawar Tank which could replace a major chunk of our T-72 Fleet .
Indian army plans to induct 300 Zorawar tanks in first phase and retire another 450 T-72M , which will initially be sent to storage from active duty and then could find themselves in the hand of some friendly ally

India has 1150~ T72 CIA and the rest are still the regular T72M1 (around 900~ would be in active service, with several hundred more in reserve), Along with 1193 T90S. Do not confuse T72A and M, the M does not stand for modernized.

 

[Lion]

SO Vt-4 and Haider are not the same?

They are the Same. PA drastically reduced the foreign orders for the VT4, that’s what PK is trying to say. Initially a large number of the tanks were going to be purchased from China because they were reluctant to provide full ToT + the documents and schematics they did provide weren’t of the best quality. However HIT was able to do enough reverse engineering (plus the simulators helped) to where they are ready to produce these tanks locally. However, the overall order has still been reduced I believe, given the recent economic constraints placed on the country.

 

[Lion]

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https://twitter.com/x/status/1738579822962782217

The indigenous content is nowhere near the 90% mark. Much lower, at least for now.

 

[Lion]

Just as a side note, the 5TD-6TD series diesel engines are just plain fuel hungry, especially in a counter-insurgency role where the tank primarily either sits in idle or perform limited tactical maneuvers.
The nature of them being opposed two-stroke-cycle engines, with very short stroke distance, large piston diameter, and high RPM means they can cram a lot of peak power output in tight (especially flat) spaces, with the unfortunate downside being low torque at low RPM (poor acceleration), short time between overhaul (high RPM = high wear), and bad fuel economy (fuel-rich combustion at low RPM). They really are more intended for the soviet armour spearhead, long-distance breakthrough, not for rat-blasting.
Although in the near future, engines like 6TD could see a resurgence. A very interesting development recently have been electric transmission in tanks and AFVs reaching operational maturity, which benefits engines like 6TD immensely, since it means the diesel engine only have to operate at ideal RPM condition where its advantage in high energy density can be used in full, while its disadvantage in bad low RPM performance can be perfectly ameliorated by the natural feature of electric motors.

Very accurate, finally, someone who knows the TD series well. People forget that the TD series was never even one of the options for the Al-Khalid, it came only because all the other options got embargoed, the AK was designed around a much larger engine. It most certainly has very poor torque, people misunderstand the relation between Torque and power in engines, these are high horsepower (for the size) and low torque engines.
The fuel consumption is poor yes, but it’s not alarmingly so, at least in practice. Given Pakistans geography it is even less of an issue. I think the saving grace to the Al-Khalid’s powertrain is the transmission, complicated, yes, very, but it gives it acceptable acceleration and great reverse speeds. But it is also the reason it has been hard to change out the AKs powertrain to the Chinese ones.
As for electric transmissions, interesting concept, I wonder how long that’ll take to trickle down this far.

 

[Lion]

There's already 176 around. 500? Every source I read it's 680....You would know first hand if room is being made and if older tanks are being put away for storage.

There’s a reason More Al-Zarrars are being produced and older ones are potentially being upgraded. The order has been downsized, for now at least. I was the one who claimed the 680 figure first anyways.

 

[CSAW]

...." Haider tank's armor on the turret and the hull is a combination of composite, reactive, and spaced armor. Composite armor is made up of layers of materials such as ceramics, metals, and polymers that work together to resist penetration by projectiles. Reactive armor uses explosive charges to disrupt and deflect incoming projectiles, while spaced armor consists of two layers of armor with a gap between them that helps to absorb the energy of incoming projectiles. The front of the hull is fitted with ERA (Explosive Reactive Armor) package.

The Haider tank's suspension system consists of six road wheels on each side, with the first and last road wheels mounted on hydraulic shock absorbers. The tank's suspension system is of the torsion bar type, with each road wheel mounted on its own torsion bar. The idler is at the front while the drive sprocket is at the rear. The tank is powered by a four-stroke turbocharged electronically-controlled Diesel engine developing 1,200 hp coupled to a hydro-mechanical automatic transmission. It can run at a maximum road speed of 70 km/h with a maximum cruising range of 500 km."

 

[Waterboy]

Should i upload VT4 interior pictures???

 

[CSAW]

HIT unveiled HAIDER Tank March 2024​

Rollout ceremony of HAIDER tank (Pilot Project).The ceremony was attended by Ambassador of the Peoples Republic of #China, key officials of Chinese state company NORINCO, high officials of Government of Pakistan & #Pakistan Army

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765522617627230210

https://twitter.com/x/status/1765372464844947943

 

[CSAW]

@Waz @LeGenD
@mods
Sticky thread Plz.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[studsmart]

is it me, or is just an imagination? It seems Alkhalid is more Pakistani than Alhaider... am I correct?

 

[Oscar]

is it me, or is just an imagination? It seems Alkhalid is more Pakistani than Alhaider... am I correct?

AK was based off Type-90II with the different powerpack and some Pakistani specific mods but started life fairly similar to the Haider. Eventually more and more Pakistan specific/ built requirements incl electronics(autoloader/ electrical systems/battle management system) were added so it’s more Pakistani than it began.

So yes, you are correct where Haider is pretty much license assembly of VT-4 with the small modifications to radio and local IBMS(not confirmed although it would be weird not to) and ensuring compatibility with local ammo.

But, that doesn’t mean eventually for cost cutting and local industry/commission purposes components can be manufactured in Pakistan and the Haider in 5 years would be more Pakistani than it is today.

 

[amuqeetk]

They are same. But bulk will now be locally produced.

but why didnt we produce enough alkhalid 2 tanks in the first place ? can you shed light on that please.

 

[Oscar]

but why didnt we produce enough alkhalid 2 tanks in the first place ? can you shed light on that please.

In my opinion they could not get the progress and sup chain on it stabilized but more so realized that the VT-4 has already incorporated everything they wanted to do for AK-2 so why throw money on climbing the same flights of stairs when you can take an escalator to it?

It all goes back to Pakistan’s R&D mantra as a broke nation - “Only build when you have exhausted all other avenues to buy cheap - or if you don’t want secrets leaked”
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