Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

[FuturePAF]

In my opinion they could not get the progress and sup chain on it stabilized but more so realized that the VT-4 has already incorporated everything they wanted to do for AK-2 so why throw money on climbing the same flights of stairs when you can take an escalator to it?

It all goes back to Pakistan’s R&D mantra as a broke nation - “Only build when you have exhausted all other avenues to buy cheap - or if you don’t want secrets leaked”
To

Considering what has been leaked recently about the Type 99 tank, the performance is exceptional. The speed of the Sabot round 100m/s faster than the M1 Abrams rounds and penetration of 960 mm of RHA at 1000 meters.

Speaking of importing foreign tech instead of reinventing the wheel, what do you think of an upgrade of some of the Al-Zarrar Tanks with the Turkish defense industry?

The following upgrade may look strange, but it seems interesting in how to upgrade a legacy tank and deal with modern threats.

Turkish M60A3 tanks get new modular turret

Turkish defence company Roketsan has delivered the first M60A3 upgraded with the new Modular Armored Tower to the Turkish Land Forces. The M60A3 is a main battle tank (MBT) that was developed by the…

www.defencetoday.com

Turkish industry is apply a lot of lessons learned from the Ukraine war on their tank fleet, why not benefit from that experience in a cost effective manner, with an upgrade package.

In war time, practically, Türkiye could supply ammo if the turret is swapped out with a Turkish 120 mm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/10lneet/mzk_turret_from_roketsan_for_the_turkish_m60a3

 

[Oscar]

Considering what has been leaked recently about the Type 99 tank, the performance is exceptional. The speed of the Sabot round 100m/s faster than the M1 Abrams rounds and penetration of 960 mm of RHA at 1000 meters.

Speaking of importing foreign tech instead of reinventing the wheel, what do you think of an upgrade of some of the Al-Zarrar Tanks with the Turkish defense industry?

The following upgrade may look strange, but it seems interesting in how to upgrade a legacy tank and deal with modern threats.

Turkish M60A3 tanks get new modular turret

Turkish defence company Roketsan has delivered the first M60A3 upgraded with the new Modular Armored Tower to the Turkish Land Forces. The M60A3 is a main battle tank (MBT) that was developed by the…

www.defencetoday.com

Turkish industry is apply a lot of lessons learned from the Ukraine war on their tank fleet, why not benefit from that experience in a cost effective manner, with an upgrade package.

In war time, practically, Türkiye could supply ammo if the turret is swapped out with a Turkish 120 mm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/10lneet/mzk_turret_from_roketsan_for_the_turkish_m60a3

I don’t the think Zarrars will undergo another upgrade - they are meant for the bogs when Ajeyas were the main target.. now its T-90s and with that area pretty much a combination of minefields, obstacles and extreme bunkers along with entrenchment tanks will serve more as artillery than trying any assaults without serious artillery pacification. The north is the closest I can imagine to the Russo Ukrainian conflict.

The south is where the action will be and the token T-80uds , AKs and VT-4s are needed to face a 3-1 ratio of T-90s, Ajeyas and their accompanying Arjuns.

Not to mention the numerous ATGM and loitering munitions the Indians will throw at it.
At the end, losses will be more severe for PK now even if it takes a 1:1 toll unless it’s willing to give up a LOT of territory in return for places where they can use ambushes and many many asymmetric ATGM systems to make India lose an arm and a leg for every inch onward. With that communication line so close to the border regardless - India could simply not care and claim victory but these all start approaching WMD thresholds so it’s rather moot.

 

[Reichmarshal]

In my opinion they could not get the progress and sup chain on it stabilized but more so realized that the VT-4 has already incorporated everything they wanted to do for AK-2 so why throw money on climbing the same flights of stairs when you can take an escalator to it?

It all goes back to Pakistan’s R&D mantra as a broke nation - “Only build when you have exhausted all other avenues to buy cheap - or if you don’t want secrets leaked”
To

Plus u can only make money when u import somthing.....not when u manufacture somthing inhouse

 

[Oscar]

Plus u can only make money when u import somthing.....not when u manufacture somthing inhouse

Fulfillment of the requirements trumps enterprise and any local production costs need to be lower than imports to make sense- the Mushaq fulfilled a requirement for a basic trainer - its use as liason to replace the L-19 was due to pocket filling.

The MP5 is a CQB weapon that should have been imported in limited numbers for the requirement - its license manufacturing and push as a field weapon when its 9mm is dead on the ground in less than 200m was to fill pockets.

How much money has HIT made selling the Al Khalid? Did HIT manufacture and sell to Bangladesh? Or Myanmar or Morocco?
Nothing to KSA or Saudi arabia so where was the money made?

Did at the least send barrels for the VT-1s sold?

 

[Panzerkiel]

but why didnt we produce enough alkhalid 2 tanks in the first place ? can you shed light on that please.

The same problems being faced with other defence production organizations.

 

[CSAW]

"A nice comparison of turrets between Indian Army’s T-90S Bhishma and Chinese VT-4 MBT.

The VT-4 is decked without the sensors for better accuracy, survivability, and situation awareness while T-90S has very little or none."




"The Indian Army sighed contract to modify 957 T-90 with thermal sight for commander in early 2022.

No news yet about the progress."

 

[MS Sandhu]

Seems like no GL-5 yet but hopefully some upgrade program in future may include equipping it with GL-5.

 

[farooqbhai]

Ak was showcased with additional ERA package as well.

 

[CSAW]

 

[Oscar]

T

View attachment 24917
View attachment 24918
Ak was showcased with additional ERA package as well.

The situation with ERA is the same as with the PL-15 complaints .”Nazar nahin aate”

Even though they are an add on kit which just like those missiles and unless needed operationally are kept off.

 

[iron shrapnel]

T

The situation with ERA is the same as with the PL-15 complaints .”Nazar nahin aate”

Even though they are an add on kit which just like those missiles and unless needed operationally are kept off.

Hull blocks are missing but they are using front turret ones... I guess they would only use them in full operational deployment.

 

[Oscar]

View attachment 25693
Hull blocks are missing but they are using front turret ones... I guess they would only use them in full operational deployment.

Sometimes that could be the operational use case depending upon what is required. In many cases it is possible that the turret ones are either less prone to environmental damage due to where they are or they are a bit more of a headache to take off and put on.

ERAs have weight too -

 

[Lion]

Sometimes that could be the operational use case depending upon what is required. In many cases it is possible that the turret ones are either less prone to environmental damage due to where they are or they are a bit more of a headache to take off and put on.

ERAs have weight too -

It’s more likely that the turret ERA is not removed because it’s not inherently harmful to the crew and other infantry around the tank. Meanwhile the ones on the Hull are often stepped on or could be damaged in an accident. Though ERA is very inert and doesn’t go off even to small arms fire, it’s better not to take a risk and keep it on, it is an explosive after all.

Secondly, ERA has limited shelf life, and using it reduces said shelf life, that’s apart from the added weight and complexity of keeping it on when not in a conflict.

Thirdly, another reason we often see ERA on AKs turret but not on the hull is because sometimes the plates on the turret aren’t ERA at all, they are also often extra composite plates that look like ERA, you can see the difference in some close up images.


Lastly, the way ERA is mounted on older Al-Khalid (and by extension Type 85) is different than how it’s mounted on AK-1 and VT4. On the older models, there is a large metal plate to which ERA is mounted and then that plate is mounted to the hull, you can take off the entire plate of ERA as required rather quickly.

In the newer models however, ERA is directly mounted to the Hull using mounting points, these can be seen (or not seen) in images of AK-1 and AK without ERA.

All that being said, yes, if a conflict was to start, ERA would be quick to go on, including ERA on the sides, PA does indeed use Side ERA on AK, AZ and VT4, it’s not hard to do and is not needed during peacetime, but like the field modifications we saw in WoT, this would be one of the first thing to go on tanks (if needed) during a conflict.

 

[Lion]

Seems like no GL-5 yet but hopefully some upgrade program in future may include equipping it with GL-5.

Cost is a major factor, though not likely to succeed, they are working on local APS systems to see what they can indigenize to reduce costs. Adding a hard kill APS like GL5 (or the new GL6 which PA would prefer) adds significant cost to a tank, PA would rather buy more tanks to replace older types first and then add APS.

Keep in mind APS are of multiple types, VT4 without GL6/5 already has passive APS.

 

[Lion]

"A nice comparison of turrets between Indian Army’s T-90S Bhishma and Chinese VT-4 MBT.

The VT-4 is decked without the sensors for better accuracy, survivability, and situation awareness while T-90S has very little or none."

View attachment 24789


"The Indian Army sighed contract to modify 957 T-90 with thermal sight for commander in early 2022.

No news yet about the progress."

Indian T90S has gunners thermals, same ones as in base model AK. No commanders thermals or even commanders panoramic sight (which AK and VT4 both have).

VT4 even without GL5/GL6 hard kill APS has passive APS like LWRs. It has Muzzle reference systems, auto bore sight system, 360 degree cameras and much more. No tank in the subcontinent has the kind of sensor array VT4 does, AK1 is a rather distant second, though this is going to be improved with future AK upgrades to bring it closer to VT4. That is followed by base model AK and then T90S (which has really the same things as our T80UDs).