As China Unleashes 80,000-Ton Fujian, India’s Ex-Naval Chief Wants France’s Help To Construct Nuke-Powered Aircraft Carrier

Zumwalts is really cool and Avant-garde design, but it's a failed project due to the costs and tech immaturities used. Have to wait for DDG-X constructed and in service yet. A generation of US warships have failed, both Zumwalts and LCS, American armed forces have became too arrogant after the cold war.
Zumwalts developed the propulsion tech that will go into the DDG-X. Furthermore, IMHO, considering the importance of EW, i believe the Zumwalts will get a role as the dedicated EW surface combatants for the Navy, and we might see a revised design. With at least one as part of every carrier battle group.

The Arleigh Burke design was excellent for the what it was designed for, hunting Soviet subs in the late Cold War. The needs have just grown beyond the limits of the Arleigh burke’s design.

The DDG-X is coming in the 2030s. The PLAN will have to up its game. No more economical cruising.

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Zumwalts developed the propulsion tech that will go into the DDG-X. Furthermore, IMHO, considering the importance of EW, i believe the Zumwalts will get a role as the dedicated EW surface combatants for the Navy, and we might see a revised design. With at least one as part of every carrier battle group.

The Arleigh Burke design was excellent for the what it was designed for, hunting Soviet subs in the late Cold War. The needs have just grown beyond the limits of the Arleigh burke’s design.

The DDG-X is coming in the 2030s. The PLAN will have to up its game. No more economical cruising.

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Zumwalts developed the propulsion tech that will go into the DDG-X. Furthermore, IMHO, considering the importance of EW, i believe the Zumwalts will get a role as the dedicated EW surface combatants for the Navy, and we might see a revised design. With at least one as part of every carrier battle group.

The Arleigh Burke design was excellent for the what it was designed for, hunting Soviet subs in the late Cold War. The needs have just grown beyond the limits of the Arleigh burke’s design.

The DDG-X is coming in the 2030s. The PLAN will have to up its game. No more economical cruising.

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PLAN slowly but surely have caught up US in naval ship building.
 
PLAN slowly but surely have caught up US in naval ship building.
But the US is leapfrogging once again. Look at the designs that came out of racing competition and extrapolate that into warships. That were the designs are going. I would t be surprised the new destroyer doesn’t have an underwater “wing” like the following design from the America’s cup racing competition to be able to go faster.


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But the US is leapfrogging once again. Look at the designs that came out of racing competition and extrapolate that into warships. That were the designs are going. I would t be surprised the new destroyer doesn’t have an underwater “wing” like the following design from the America’s cup racing competition to be able to go faster.


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We will see, the problem with American designs is they put too much new tech into them at once and create many problems in usage.
 
We will see, the problem with American designs is they put too much new tech into them at once and create many problems in usage.
That’s why they have stepped back and said the DDG-X will be an evolutionary design not a revolutionary design. All the revolutionary stuff was done with the LCS and Zumwalt.
 
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China imports more semiconductors than it exports. Although they once aspired to lead in semiconductor manufacturing, those ambitions were dashed when the US imposed sanctions preventing China from importing lithography machines from Dutch firms.
Semiconductor imports by China reached a total value of $349.4 billion, according to customs data reported by Beijing.
Check what semiconductors we import, do you know the difference? Do you even have a working fab? The one in chandigarh was burnt down right? You sure you didn't buy the silicon from Israel and assembled it? Lol
 
China struggles to produce reliable mechanical scanned seekers for its missiles, let alone AESA technology.
Yes and India which imports everything can do it better. I believe you.
 
You are mistaken; India has indeed revolutionized itself in the field of advanced RF/AESA seekers integrated on our BVRAAM, cruise missiles, and SAMs.
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The BrahMos now features our domestically engineered RF SCAN MILLIMETER-WAVE IMAGING SEEKER, a replacement for the previously imported Russian monopulse seeker. Operating akin to a high-resolution camera, this seeker substantially bolsters the BrahMos' target discrimination capabilities while boasting strong resistance against electronic jamming.
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Uh huh, and they were still importing seekers until 2022. Judging by the Indian competence and boastibility, I will chose to just say OK.
 
Recently, India secured a significant $225 million ammunition contract from Saudi Arabia. In addition to this, our private firms are also supplying many artillery shells to the USA and other Western economies.
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The U.S. Army said it awarded $1.5 billion in contracts to nine companies in the U.S., Canada, India and Poland to boost global production of 155mm artillery rounds. The Army also awarded three international companies contracts – NitroChem SA in Poland, Solar Industries India Ltd. and IMT Defence in Canada.
Indian DPSUs have clinched a substantial contract for their Akash Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) system, valued at over $1 billion. Armenia has allocated a contract amounting to $750 million, while Sudan has awarded a contract valued at $255 million.

Even NK produces ammunition mate. NATO is out of ammunition after Ukriane debacle, any Tom dick and Harry could have gotten it. Armenia? You want me to post their feedback on your Pinocchio system? Sudan? Wht are they buying? Isn't Sudan under famine now?
 
It’s the propulsion tech, but it’s also the hull design. A version of the Type 052D should be designed with a hull similar to the hull design America has planned for the DDG-X (longer bulbous bow and Type 55 style hull shape into the water). It could help alongside improvements in propulsion. The Arleigh burkes also have a bulge under the water amidships that helps with stability.

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At 11:00 you can see the refined bulbous bow of an Arleigh Burke design


That's something for the naval architects to study and if it good, no reason why China shouldn't learn from it. The problem for the US is cost, they just Jack up the prices for every ship astronomically.
 

As China Unleashes 80,000-Ton Fujian, India’s Ex-Naval Chief Wants France’s Help To Construct Nuke-Powered Aircraft Carrier​

By Ritu Sharma
May 1, 2024

Amid China’s PLA Navy commencing sea trials of its third aircraft carrier, the 80,000-ton Fujian, a former Indian Navy chief has proposed that India and France collaborate on constructing a nuclear-powered next-generation aircraft carrier.

Fujian is China’s largest warship. Launched in June 2022, it is the country’s first supercarrier and the first domestically developed carrier equipped with electromagnetic catapults and arresting devices.

Admiral Arun Prakash (retired) has suggested that the two countries are already collaborating on manufacturing engines for India’s fighter jet engines; they are supplying Rafale fighter jets for the Indian Air Force and the Indian Navy and joining hands to manufacture the next-generation aircraft carrier is the “logical step.”

France has already started work on its next-generation nuclear-powered aircraft carrier for the French Navy, the Porte-Avions Nouvelle Génération (PA-NG). The PA-NG will replace the French nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, Charles de Gaulle. Construction is expected to commence in 2025, and commissioning is scheduled for 2038.

Naval Group and Chantiers de l’Atlantique are jointly building the PA-NG, and TechnicAtome will provide the two nuclear reactors that power the ship.

Admiral Prakash contends that this is the right time should India want to join the project and France is ready to share the technology. He believes India’s next indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) should be technologically ahead of the first IAC INS Vikrant.

Fujian-China


The Fujian is more technically advanced than the other Chinese carriers

“French companies have started work, and at this stage, it is possible for India to collaborate. Repeat order for INS Vikrant would not be a great step forward. It has a ski jump (for aircraft take-off) and is propelled by a gas turbine. Next carrier should have a catapult for better performance from aircraft and nuclear propulsion for endless endurance,” Admiral Prakash told the EurAsian Times. But, first, he said, the government has to decide whether we want to go for the next aircraft carrier.

INS Vikrant, a 44,000-ton warship, was inducted into the Indian Navy on September 2, 2022, when Prime Minister Narendra Modi commissioned India’s first indigenous aircraft carrier, Indian Naval Ship (INS) Vikrant, at the Cochin Shipyard Limited (CSL).

Apart from being unable to operate a large number of aircraft (INS Vikrant can operate 18 fighter jets), unlike their American counterparts, India’s 45,000-tonne indigenous carrier is also constrained by limited range and power. Unlike conventional propulsion, nuclear propulsion offers higher and unlimited power to the carriers. The nuclear-powered floating bases become more agile and can be deployed for extended periods.

Compared to the big carrier, small flattops have less potent onboard defense systems and are particularly vulnerable to drone swarm attacks. A small aircraft carrier’s peacetime importance is not under contestation, but its combat role is limited.

“Aircraft carriers remain in service for 30-40 years. The second indigenous aircraft carrier will take 7-9 years to build and will be ready by 2035. This means we are going to keep it in service till 2075. A 45,000-tonne carrier will not be able to meet India’s need to counter China, which is going to have a formidable presence in the Indian Ocean Region in the next 5-7 years,” Commodore Anil Jai Singh, an Indian Navy Veteran and Vice President of the Indian Maritime Foundation told the EurAsian Times.

Given the kind of capability we need in the future, we need bigger aircraft carriers in the future, Commodore Singh opined.

“The PLA Navy is going for a bigger aircraft carrier. India takes pride in the fact that we can turn any situation in the IOR favorably. If we need to maintain it, a 45,000-tonne aircraft carrier is not enough. We are not only looking at the present day but also our capability for the next 40 years. We need at least a 65000-70000-ton aircraft carrier,” Commodore Singh added.

Indian Navy’s 2nd Indigenous Aircraft Carrier

The Indian Navy wants to go for the second indigenous aircraft carrier as the life of the Russian-built Admiral Gorshkov, rechristened as INS Vikramaditya, is also nearing its end.

Indian Navy Chief Admiral Hari R. Kumar revealed on October 6, 2023, that the Navy is moving a case for the third aircraft carrier, which will be a repeat of the indigenous INS Vikrant. There has been no encouragement from the government for getting bigger aircraft carriers.

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Representation of the Porte-avions de nouvelle génération.

The need for three aircraft carriers was laid down in the first Plan Paper made for the Indian Navy in 1948 to enable it to exercise sea control in the Indian Ocean.
“If France is willing to share the technology, it would be a good idea. Building a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier would take decades. With France’s help, India can achieve it in the next 6-7 years,” the former Indian Navy Chief suggested. He adds that India can share the financial burden of the project and provide labor for the construction. Also, the construction of PA-NG and the IAC-2 can run concurrently should the collaboration take shape.

In 1988, DCN France was asked to audit Cochin Shipyard Limited and lend help in the concept design of a “sea control ship.” DCN-CSL came up with the concept of the 37,000-ton ship with ski jump/catapult options, costing around INR 3,000 crores, but it was found unaffordable.

The PA-NG will be bigger and more powerful than its predecessor, Charles de Gaulle. It will be a 75,000-ton warship and can carry up to 30 new-generation maritime variants of the future combat air system (FCAS), comprising new-generation fighter aircraft and remote carrier vehicles.

India has been able to manufacture nuclear-powered submarines with the help of Russians. However, making a reactor for a 60,000-ton warship is a different ballgame.

Another factor is that both INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant use the older ‘ski-jump’ technology to help the deck-based fighter jets take off. The new aircraft carriers are coming with the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS). These complex technologies offer advantages like precise control over launch speed, are suitable for heavy aircraft, and are compatible with future aircraft designs.

India-France

Over the past decade, France has emerged as India’s second-largest arms supplier after Russia. The defense cooperation between the two countries has strengthened significantly, and several key defense deals have been struck. France’s public endorsement of India’s claim for permanent membership of the UN Security Council has also made it a trusted ally for New Delhi.

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A Rafale Marine attached to squadron 17F of the French Navy lands during flight operations aboard the aircraft carrier USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77).

India has already inducted 36 Rafale fighter jets made by Dassault Aviation into its air force. In 2023, the Indian government received initial approval to purchase 26 Rafale M fighter jets for its Navy.

The Rafale jets have enhanced India’s air combat capabilities and contributed to its national security. Before these, in the 1980s, India bought Mirage jets, which continue to be in service and comprise two Air Force squadrons.

India’s defense ministry granted the Approval of Necessity (AoN) for procuring three additional Scorpène-class submarines under the Buy (Indian) category. These submarines will be constructed by Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) in India. The Indian Navy already operates six Scorpène submarines manufactured by the French Naval Group (formerly known as DCNS).

Indian aerospace maker Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is currently looking to manufacture the Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH), a medium-lift helicopter to replace the aging Russian Mi-17 helicopters. These helicopters will be used for air assault, air attack, anti-submarine, anti-surface, military transport, and VIP transport. The company has already signed a workshare agreement for the joint development of engines with France-based Safran.
Well France will do anything for money. That is all what France cares about.
 
That's something for the naval architects to study and if it good, no reason why China shouldn't learn from it. The problem for the US is cost, they just Jack up the prices for every ship astronomically.
Innovation and being at the cutting edge is costly. Having said that, it’s overly inflated, but you don’t attract the best in the world to this research without incentivizes.
 
Well France will do anything for money. That is all what France cares about.
France needs to do everything it can for money, because it had to maintain a high standard of living. They are up there in terms of debt with limited means of paying it off and a social contract to maintain.

Just like post Soviet Russia selling off its tech piece by piece, France will sell its tech to India bit by bit over the next 30 years.


 

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