Bangladesh Air Force

[Michael Corleone]

Yunus may be able to pull some strings with the US and get hold of 16-32 used F-16s that would still have 10-15 years of airframe life in them. US could do this for BD and only charge for the cost of refurbishment, training, weapons and setting up associated infrastructure.

That would probably be the best that BAF could do now but the problem is if the US wants something in return that may be too much for BD to give.

Would love to see F-16 fly in BAF.

Bangladesh will not get anything for free like ukraine, after trump wins this fall neither will ukraine.

 

[Michael Corleone]

My ideal airforce is:

40-60 F-16 or Gripen.

And 150 j10C


Western aircraft is needed for the Burmese. Chinese aircraft needed for the Indians.

My ideal would be 60-40 split between j10c and f18… Will be perfect for naval asset support too

 

[Michael Corleone]

Program is officially still on. Unless they terminate it, this is our procurement program.

I’m wondering what’s the logic of buying garage queens? MiG 29s would have been retired by 2020 if they flew them enough… half of that fleet is air worthy at any one time.

 

[Afif]

I’m wondering what’s the logic of buying garage queens?

There are some serious institutional issues within BAF. Lack of standard doctrine and CONOP development is still a painful weakness. Unless we can sort that out, inadequate procurement will continue to happen.

And frankly we shouldn't be obsessed with fighter procurement.

The fighter and frigate procurement programs should be cancelled or revised at least. Let me explain why I think so.

In some way, these are like BAL's mega development projects that shows some visible modernization, but not exactly what we need. I mean, yes we do need advanced new generation fighters and frigates ultimately, but not now. There are prerequisites lacking that are imperative to utilize said fighters and frigates to their intended roles within national defense strategy.

First, there are limited funds, hence it should be allocated based on priority need. Both fighter and frigate programs combined were projected to cost $5-5.5 billions at least. ($3 billions for Eurfighter and $2.5 billions for the frigates)

And I can guarantee you, given the state of forex right now we simply won't afford that much USD to spend on defense procurement in next 2/3 years. Yet, the armed force modernization already been delayed too long. So, what do we do?

Realistically, perhaps around $2 billions fund can allocated within short term. And those prerequisites I mentioned previously are, first and foremost long range high altitude air and missile defense system. (AMD)

Otherwise, if we spend huge sum of $3 billions on super expensive 16x Eurofighters. Yet most of those are destroyed on the ground by intensive enemy missile strikes of all kinds, specially BMs in the early hours of the conflict before they make to the fight in the sky, imagine how tremendous the moral and the capability loss it would be. And that huge sum of money would be wasted. Like this-

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807855178386694413

Hence, it is imperative to procure at least 2x batteries of fully BMD capable long range AD system (SAMP/T NG from Italy or France is the right choice as we won't afford MIM-104 patriot. Two batteries would cost around $1 billions.) before we are talking about fighters.

And obviously, those are not just about protecting air bases where future expensive fighters will be housed. Long range high altitude AMD systems is much more than that. It provides protection to ground formations against enemy air and missile threats. Its protective air bubbles is more capable of keeping enemy air assets at bay compared to traditional fighter interceptors. How?

Well, 16x Eurfighters maybe able to take on 32x IAF jets leveraging its qualitative advantage if they makes it to the fight in the sky, (Which it won't if there isn't any AMD system protecting them on the ground to begin with) but then IAF has far more assets to throw at our 16x Eurofighters and they will simply overwhelm them in the end.

On the other hand, hit to kill capable AMD system can withstand intense enemy air and missile strikes to its last interceptor. (specially ballistic missiles strikes, which are a huge threat and can't be shot down by fighter jets) We saw how well system like Patriot and SAMP/T is performing in Ukraine. Fending of intense air raids and keeping mighty Russian air force from gaining air superiority.

In a nutshell, modern AMD provides more bang for the bucks compared to expensive fighter jets. And as of now simply we can't afford both. So, it is clear which one we need to prioritize.

One could argue, unlike AMD systems, fighter jets provide offensive capabilities to destroy enemy formation and air assets on the ground. It is true, however, 16x Eurofighters are too few and would be eliminated by IAF long before they could do any of it at scale.

On the other hand, we can leave the offensive capabilities to army's long range operational and strategic artillery capabilities and invest more in it. System like TRG-300 GMLRS and Khan tactical ballistic missiles batteries when despersed are much more survivable and hard to find and kill. Those would be much efficient and offer persistent and greater volume of firepower compare to what 16x can potentially carry. We saw that with HIMARS and ATACMS's outstanding performance in Ukraine.

And given the proximity of IAF Eastern command's air bases to our geography, it is the most optimized solution. Also, I believe Myanmar can be deterred with our long range surface to surface fires.

And frankly, in the long run we should look to procure BVR capable stealth UCAV instead of traditional super expensive 4.5th fighters. The only advantage Eurfighter has over something like Baykar Kızılelma, is higher payload and longer range. Both are relevant if we are planning to bomb Delhi, but we aren't. Also, keep in mind that we are never going to match IAF in one to one.

Our main goal is to prevent enemy air superiority. Given its stealth advantage, Kızılelma is better fit for the role as we have a very small airspace to defend. Also, we can procure 3x of it for the cost of a single Eurofighters. And unlike Eurofighters those have much smaller logistical footprint and can potentially be operated from highways. Reducing the risk of being destroyed at ground.

As for the navy, we should allocate $1 billion to modern AIP submarine procurement instead of the frigate program. @LeonBlack08 @Joe Shearer

 

[UKBengali]

Bangladesh will not get anything for free like ukraine, after trump wins this fall neither will ukraine.

I think you misunderstood my post.

Second hand F-16s would still cost as BD would need to pay for refurbishment, training, initial setting up of infrastructure and weapons package etc.

In effect rather than let these F-16s gather dust in the Arizona desert, US actually makes some money off them, even if they do not charge anything for the airframe. Dozens of US F-16s per year are now being replaced by F-35s and some of these airframes will have many years of life in them and anyway US can easily add another 3000 hours to the airframe with their SLEP(Structural service life extension programme).

Problem here is if the US agrees to give some to BD due to their links with Yunus, what or anything would they expect from BD in return apart from just payment?

 

[UKBengali]

And frankly we shouldn't be obsessed with fighter procurement.

That I can agree with.

MRSAMs(don't think BD can afford LRSAMs and that is if anyone is actually willing to sell such weapons to BD) and TRG-300s are more urgent and much more affordable priorities.

BAF is decades behind the curve in terms of modern tactics and doctrines as the AL donkeys only brought 16 F-7BGIs when they first entered power in 2009 as "stop-gap", but then apart from the minor upgrade of the 8 Mig-29s by Byelorussia they did absolutely nothing to modernise the BAF and make it fit for the 21st century.

 

[Afif]

That I can agree with.

MRSAMs(don't think BD can afford LRSAMs and that is if anyone is actually willing to sell such weapons to BD)

We can afford BMD capable LRSAM. These are usually around $250-500 millions per system. There are enough countries willing to sell us if we take the initiative. That's not a problem. Anyone willing to sell us expensive strategic top end fighter jet like Typhoon or Rafale, isn't gonna hold out on a defensive system.

And tbh, MRSAM is the most useless thing. It doesn't meet our requirement if we were to do a comprehensive critical analysis.

 

[UKBengali]

We can afford BMD capable LRSAM. These are usually around $250-500 millions per system. There are enough countries willing to sell us if we take the initiative. That's not a problem. Anyone willing to sell us expensive strategic top end fighter jet like Typhoon or Rafale, isn't gonna hold out on a defensive system.

And tbh, MRSAM is the most useless thing. It doesn't meet our requirement if we were to do a comprehensive critical analysis.

No country has brought LRSAMs without MRSAMs first. This "doesn't meet our requirement" would be unique to BD.

LRSAMs are vulnerable without protection from short and medium range systems. BD has plenty of short range systems and so now needs MRSAM.

If in the future BD has money then it should could opt for LRSAM which cost up to 1 billion US dollars a battery. No idea where you got those low numbers from as a lot of sales just state the price of the actual components, without the quite expensive missiles that you need to buy with each battery.

 

[Bengal71]

My ideal would be 60-40 split between j10c and f18… Will be perfect for naval asset support too

F-18 is good but a gripen like aircraft is so good for BD. Ultra reliable, very low operational cost, can be operated from roads and highways, vast assortment of weapons that can be integrated and very advanced and we can potentially get it in larger numbers. It can also deal with any Russian aircraft out there, it's been designed for that single purpose.

PS: Did you get your medical degree from Ukraine? What's happening?

 

[AbuShalehRumi]

Not me for sure.

However they are not a "proper" government as in they have come in as a caretaker one after the sudden fall of Hasina and Awami League.

Any procurement decisions will have to wait for an elected government and that will probably be in 2026 or even 2027 now.

Still, you have failed to present any logical reason.
.
If you can question the legitimacy of Yunus administration, I guess you might also have reservations about the legitimacy of Communist Party of China led government of China too.
.
Previous government wasn't ousted through a coup. So if you question the legitimacy of Yunus Administration then you must come up with political science approved logic.
.
Anyway, we are getting too much off topic here.

 

[Afif]

No country has brought LRSAMs without MRSAMs first. This "doesn't meet our requirement" would be unique to BD.

LRSAMs are vulnerable without protection from short and medium range systems. BD has plenty of short range systems and so now needs MRSAM.

Perhaps I will talk about it later. Btw, BD doesn't have plenty of SHORAD. We only have four batteries of FM-90.

If in the future BD has money then it should could opt for LRSAM which cost up to 1 billion US dollars a battery. No idea where you got those low numbers from as a lot of sales just state the price of the actual components, without the quite expensive missiles that you need to buy with each battery.

Lots of exmaple. Including the interceptor missile themselves.

one of them, Singapore bought 2x batteries of SAMP/T with 200x ASTER 30 interceptors for roughly $800 millions.

Singapore confirms delivery of Aster 30 missile with video post

Singapore has given the first glimpse of its latest addition to the multilayered air defense network defending the southeast Asian island nation.

www.defensenews.com

 

[AbuShalehRumi]

one of them, Singapore bought 2x batteries of SAMP/T with 200x ASTER 30 interceptors for roughly $800 millions.

Wow ! Me sold...

 

[Michael Corleone]

F-18 is good but a gripen like aircraft is so good for BD. Ultra reliable, very low operational cost, can be operated from roads and highways, vast assortment of weapons that can be integrated and very advanced and we can potentially get it in larger numbers. It can also deal with any Russian aircraft out there, it's been designed for that single purpose.

PS: Did you get your medical degree from Ukraine? What's happening?

Yes gripen is great but becoming a marketing failure thanks to American intervention. Would do us good to buy f16 to appease Americans and gripens… good combo

Yea I did finish my studies but now hoping to do my masters

 

[Michael Corleone]

I think you misunderstood my post.

Second hand F-16s would still cost as BD would need to pay for refurbishment, training, initial setting up of infrastructure and weapons package etc.

In effect rather than let these F-16s gather dust in the Arizona desert, US actually makes some money off them, even if they do not charge anything for the airframe. Dozens of US F-16s per year are now being replaced by F-35s and some of these airframes will have many years of life in them and anyway US can easily add another 3000 hours to the airframe with their SLEP(Structural service life extension programme).

Problem here is if the US agrees to give some to BD due to their links with Yunus, what or anything would they expect from BD in return apart from just payment?

I think yunus can easily get these jets should Bangladesh asks for them officially but we will have to sign those two deals and also align ourselves to the point where we don’t have any defence cooperation with China.

Also need to consider to what point would it be good for such alliance because america will have sanction power over us and will intervene in almost all of our foreign policy including myanmar and rohynga issue

 

[Michael Corleone]

There are some serious institutional issues within BAF. Lack of standard doctrine and CONOP development is still a painful weakness. Unless we can sort that out, inadequate procurement will continue to happen.

And frankly we shouldn't be obsessed with fighter procurement.

Liked your analysis on AMD and submarines… our goal is deterrence and not waging war so with limited funds your proposals are going to be really effective for a small country like Bangladesh.