Bangladesh Socio-Political Crisis 2024

Likewise, Indian media's attitude is reflective of the majority Indian sentiment about the people of Bangladesh.
That is so not true.

I am surprised and pained that a balanced person should make this thoroughly misleading remark, with zero evidence for it. Let me say categorically that the mass media, what is searingly called the Godi Media, is not representative of Indian public opinion at large. Nor, for that matter, is the obnoxious swarm of publicity hunters on social media in any way representative of Indian public opinion.

Certainly, those who wish to gauge Indian public opinion will find it easiest to sample what is being said both in traditional media, and in social media. Easiest, and also the most misleading; these are both captives to organised exercises by the ruling party and its sections.

Please DO NOT confuse the enfuriating condescension, the sneers, the outright hatred that is visible (and invisible) on these fora, and the mindless malevolence on display with India. These are phenomena of a peculiar nature, and not rooted in general Indian thinking on the subject.
 
That is so not true.

I am surprised and pained that a balanced person should make this thoroughly misleading remark, with zero evidence for it. Let me say categorically that the mass media, what is searingly called the Godi Media, is not representative of Indian public opinion at large. Nor, for that matter, is the obnoxious swarm of publicity hunters on social media in any way representative of Indian public opinion.

Certainly, those who wish to gauge Indian public opinion will find it easiest to sample what is being said both in traditional media, and in social media. Easiest, and also the most misleading; these are both captives to organised exercises by the ruling party and its sections.

Please DO NOT confuse the enfuriating condescension, the sneers, the outright hatred that is visible (and invisible) on these fora, and the mindless malevolence on display with India. These are phenomena of a peculiar nature, and not rooted in general Indian thinking on the subject.

I hope you are correct dada, I will gladly stand corrected.

I know many peace loving people like you do exist, and I can attest to it based on my own personal interaction with Indians here in the West and from my school years in Darjeeling. But the Indians in the West cannot be used as a sample to be a representative of Indians in India, our values are impacted by our surrounding. It is same for Pakistanis and Bangladeshis living in the West as well.

The amount of toxicity I have been seeing online has made me contemplate that there has been a big shift in overall Indian mindset in recent years to the point of no return. It is not just the forums where people are likely to harbour extreme ultra nationalist ideology. It is everywhere in social media and mainstream media including entertainment. From supporting child murdering Zionists (just to get back at Muslims) to projecting extreme hatred for muslim neighbors, online Indians don't really project positivity at this time.

I am completely aware that there are many bot accounts actively spreading hatred online, but there are equally large amount of genuine accounts doing the same. We have been seeing creation of many pro Hindutva groups under different banners in Bangladesh and they are parroting the exact same Islamophobic narrative preached in Delhi.

Considering everything, it appears to an outsider like me that people such as yourself have now become a minority, a large minority in India.
 
The amount of toxicity I have been seeing online has made me contemplate that there has been a big shift in overall Indian mindset in recent years to the point of no return.
I sincerely hope you are wrong. Before 2024, I might have (gloomily) agreed with you; after that slap in the face to the Sangh Parivar, I have allowed myself to hope again, to breath again.

It is not just the forums where people are likely to harbour extreme ultra nationalist ideology. It is everywhere in social media and mainstream media including entertainment. From supporting child murdering Zionists (just to get back at Muslims) to projecting extreme hatred for muslim neighbors, online Indians don't really project positivity at this time.
True, that. However, these are parts of a distorted sample - again, my personal opinion. We are listening to the fringe, those who are active on social media, and on the comments columns of any and every publication. In those places, the right-wing is around three orders of magnitude better organised, and enable the soldiers to be heard disproportionately.

I am completely aware that there are many bot accounts actively spreading hatred online, but there are equally large amount of genuine accounts doing the same. We have been seeing creation of many pro Hindutva groups under different banners in Bangladesh and they are parroting the exact same Islamophobic narrative preached in Delhi.
You are right, but even 1% of our population represents a very, very high number of people. I hope our friends will keep these factors in mind, and allow for the bitter, frustrated malice of these bigots to drown by volume the voices of those of us who still believe in a secular India.
 
Considering everything, it appears to an outsider like me that people such as yourself have now become a minority, a large minority in India.
Let me be honest.

There are dark moments when I feel exactly the same, that, as you have mentioned, we have become a minority, a large one, but a minority.

Then it occurs to me that it was always the case that secular people were a minority. The vast majority was indifferent to religion and religiosity and to political manipulation anchored in bigotry and hatred of the other. Even in the last elections, while the Sangh Parivar very hopefully presented the Ram Mandir' as a killer argument to turn out the silent majority, they failed. The people of India showed that they were focussed on the relevant - on what they encountered in daily life, Those were education, access to education, opportunities for useful working at worthwhile jobs, justice in day to day life and health care that ordinary people can afford. The Sangh Parivar failed on all of these, and paid the price.

I hope we survive this phase.
 
seeing online

online Indians

a distorted sample - again, my personal opinion.

It comes back to the 90% vs 10% vs 1% effect.

Online populations w.r.t developing countries are heavily skewed to those that have time surplus in the 10% and 1%.....especially for communicating in English....and the specific drivers within that time surplus sociopolitically/security in reductive gladiator arena format.

This means an incredible number are able to put on airs and be very haughty about matters to begin with.....as they have a certain distillation to seek out online for discussion to begin with....forming mobs, loyal groups, skirmishing "fun" etc.

Regd the 90% sentiments (that dont have such time surplus for the online realm), it is very early days to crunch qualitative numbers there.....i.e their activities and impressions under a political blanket (how much they know/care and put aside or dont put aside regd that w.r.t larger overall impression of a country/people etc)..

This survey for example (given pre covid, visits from BD citizens to India was around 1.9 million per year and will rebound to that level and surpass it soon:


It was interesting to note the overall rating of facilities, host population attitude among the 3 or so sample strata (benapole, maitree rail, dum dum airport combinations etc).

It gave larger sense than say cpl instagram groups I have been following w.r.t say Dr. Shetty hospital in BLR and Bangladesh medical tourists, which again would be skewed very differently to say social media "english conversant 10% vs 10%" groupings...given basic context of the "why"/needs governing the interactions.

I also have followed from time various travel blogs/vlogs both directions too to get a sense of the person-person interactions and their perceptions/reactions etc as they travel in respective otherside host populations. Where frictions arise inevitably, but general positive sense prevails when witness to 90% bulk population that are getting through day to day life with the interesting local curiosities and geniality both ways.

In any case, broadly past IN-BD, language plays an immense role.

When I go to/live in Quebec, there are spots simply put you are treated differently if you can only speak English. You speak French, it can often be completely different arc of receptiveness. Basically language makes the cultural bound....there are immense number of Quebecers that harbour a grudge towards English Canadians to begin with....dispossesing them of the French Canada arc that "could have been".... it can only be bypassed if you know fluent enough French to have any chance of breaching that regional defensiveness/hostility/barrier.

Same thing in China, you will be surprised just how different the host population treats you, even if you different on outside, if you illustrate to them you learned the language and thus know the culture (and their way of thinking) to a high degree.

The small talk and social graces are so important.....this is also why an incredible amount gets "lost in translation" when it comes to China to begin with....and the very Chinese distaste towards English having become the international language. Its why "foreign people speaking chinese vlogs in China" videos are their own large genre.

i.e you are going to get a skew (both ways) if you interact with mainland Chinese on political matters etc... using English....even if subject headers are exact same as you get a variant of 1% speaking to 1% (and what gets focused reductively in the 1% for discussion and prestige/ego etc....that forms backlog of interactions others may perceive to simply apply en masse, which is often untrue).

What I'm trying to say is English - English social media interaction among non-english speaking populations (especially developing populations with all kinds of axes and voids and hot take reductive perceptions to grind in political favouritism, social discourse etc...) basically skews a huge amount of what the toxicity norms even are, as you are removing from the middle of the bell curve of more normalised population-population....and then applying some insularity/self-referential (i.e perception you are the middle, rather than approaching an edge) only to adjudge the larger bulk which is in most cases quite different.

No easy way around all of this, the system governing mass communication is always going to be skewed towards the top and the ivory towers there.....but just worth keeping in mind.
 
It comes back to the 90% vs 10% vs 1% effect.

Online populations w.r.t developing countries are heavily skewed to those that have time surplus in the 10% and 1%.....especially for communicating in English....and the specific drivers within that time surplus sociopolitically/security in reductive gladiator arena format.

This means an incredible number are able to put on airs and be very haughty about matters to begin with.....as they have a certain distillation to seek out online for discussion to begin with....forming mobs, loyal groups, skirmishing "fun" etc.

Regd the 90% sentiments (that dont have such time surplus for the online realm), it is very early days to crunch qualitative numbers there.....i.e their activities and impressions under a political blanket (how much they know/care and put aside or dont put aside regd that w.r.t larger overall impression of a country/people etc)..

This survey for example (given pre covid, visits from BD citizens to India was around 1.9 million per year and will rebound to that level and surpass it soon:


It was interesting to note the overall rating of facilities, host population attitude among the 3 or so sample strata (benapole, maitree rail, dum dum airport combinations etc).

It gave larger sense than say cpl instagram groups I have been following w.r.t say Dr. Shetty hospital in BLR and Bangladesh medical tourists, which again would be skewed very differently to say social media "english conversant 10% vs 10%" groupings...given basic context of the "why"/needs governing the interactions.

I also have followed from time various travel blogs/vlogs both directions too to get a sense of the person-person interactions and their perceptions/reactions etc as they travel in respective otherside host populations. Where frictions arise inevitably, but general positive sense prevails when witness to 90% bulk population that are getting through day to day life with the interesting local curiosities and geniality both ways.

In any case, broadly past IN-BD, language plays an immense role.

When I go to/live in Quebec, there are spots simply put you are treated differently if you can only speak English. You speak French, it can often be completely different arc of receptiveness. Basically language makes the cultural bound....there are immense number of Quebecers that harbour a grudge towards English Canadians to begin with....dispossesing them of the French Canada arc that "could have been".... it can only be bypassed if you know fluent enough French to have any chance of breaching that regional defensiveness/hostility/barrier.

Same thing in China, you will be surprised just how different the host population treats you, even if you different on outside, if you illustrate to them you learned the language and thus know the culture (and their way of thinking) to a high degree.

The small talk and social graces are so important.....this is also why an incredible amount gets "lost in translation" when it comes to China to begin with....and the very Chinese distaste towards English having become the international language. Its why "foreign people speaking chinese vlogs in China" videos are their own large genre.

i.e you are going to get a skew (both ways) if you interact with mainland Chinese on political matters etc... using English....even if subject headers are exact same as you get a variant of 1% speaking to 1% (and what gets focused reductively in the 1% for discussion and prestige/ego etc....that forms backlog of interactions others may perceive to simply apply en masse, which is often untrue).

What I'm trying to say is English - English social media interaction among non-english speaking populations (especially developing populations with all kinds of axes and voids and hot take reductive perceptions to grind in political favouritism, social discourse etc...) basically skews a huge amount of what the toxicity norms even are, as you are removing from the middle of the bell curve of more normalised population-population....and then applying some insularity/self-referential (i.e perception you are the middle, rather than approaching an edge) only to adjudge the larger bulk which is in most cases quite different.

No easy way around all of this, the system governing mass communication is always going to be skewed towards the top and the ivory towers there.....but just worth keeping in mind.
A very insightful analysis. One that I will hope will persuade my Bangladeshi friends to apply sharply different yardsticks and norms of measurement to the very irritating people who turn up on line and are vicious about Bangladesh, and to the vast mass of a multiple of those numbers who are worried and concerned, but are willing to wait and see how this sudden upheaval will take shape and direction.
 

Finally, Bangladesh revokes diplomatic passport of Dictator Hasina and her cronies...​

 
They would do this because we humiliated and kicked out their maidservant. It's likely that the maidservant beg them to punish the people of Bangladesh.

Let's be straightforward here, they are neither our friends nor our well-wishers. They have been our sworn enemies since the Mughal era. It's time we grew some balls and protected our territory.

We need to adopt the policy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" to safeguard our interests and ensure our survival
A man without the knowledge of history isn't truly civilized - Prof Dr Mahmud Hussein, a former VC of the Dhaka University and younger brother of Dr Zakir Hussein, a former President of Bharat

You're creating Two Pakistans and One Hindustan - Bordolai Chatterjee, the Congress leader from Assam upon the initial acceptance of the Cabinet Mission Plan of making a loose confederation of 3 units in the subcontinent in 1946

We'll never allow Bangladesh to be outside of our radar - Gen Deepak Kapoor, a former IA Chief

A man may forgive the murderer of his father, but not the loss of his patrimony - Socrates

He never learns anything new or unlearns what he has already learnt - Jinnah on Nehru


The Bharati establishment follows the Nehru doctrine - Bharat's stability depends on the instability of her neighbors - in verbatim. They still want to implement the "Permanent Settlement" policy of the British India in Bengal, whereby the Hindus were made landlords and the Muslims tenants/slaves, via their proxy bastards. But, they want to forget that the Muslims in Bengal were the forerunners in forming the Muslim League, which led to the emancipation of the Muslim farmers in the form of a "utopia" named Pakistan*.....

According to Basant Chatterjee**, the Bharati establishment must forget any attempt to subjugate the Muslims in BD for they've tasted the flavor of freedom. What can be a more of a literal portray of this then when the folks were destroying Mujib's idols erected as tools of oppression on the Muslims like the way Nemrud used his idols to oppress and torture Hazret-i Ibrahim (PBUH)...

*Taj Hashmi, "Pakistan As A Peasant Utopia: The Communalization Of Class Politics In East Bengal, 1920 - 1947", Routledge; 1st edition (May 31, 2021)
** Basant Chatterjee, "Inside Bangladesh Today: An Eye-witness Account", S. Chand, 1973
 
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Everyone must watch it. At least first 55 minutes.

 
My suggestion is: Let it be.


BD needs to focus on how it can improve itself rather than obsessing about what India may have done in the past or doing now.

Self confident countries focus on how to move forward and pay less attention to external influence/meddling.
 

@LeonBlack08 @Arthur @Alter_Ego @Al-Zakir @AbuShalehRumi

I don't know his background. What's your thoughts?
 
BD needs to focus on how it can improve itself rather than obsessing about what India may have done in the past or doing now.

Self confident countries focus on how to move forward and pay less attention to external influence/meddling.

If external forces are potentially involved with killing of our 57 army officers, then it is something definitely to be obsessed with. If they are not, then cool. But make no mistake, this revolution was for justice. It will be served at any cost sooner or later.
 

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