China’s Deflationary Spiral Is Now Entering Dangerous New Stage

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Deflation stalking China since last year is now showing signs of spiraling, threatening to worsen the outlook for the world’s second-largest economy and raising calls for immediate policy action.

Data released Monday confirmed that apart from food costs, consumer price growth barely registered in large swathes of the economy at a time when incomes are sagging.

A broader measure of economy-wide prices known as the gross domestic product deflator will likely extend its current five-quarter drop into 2025, according to Bloomberg Economics and analysts at banks including BNP Paribas SA. That would amount to China’s longest streak of deflation since data began in 1993.

“We are definitely in deflation and probably going through the second stage of deflation,” said Robin Xing, chief China economist at Morgan Stanley, citing evidence from wage decreases. “Experience from Japan suggests that the longer deflation drags on, the more stimulus China will eventually need to break the debt-deflation challenge.”

The danger for China is deflation could snowball by encouraging households reeling from falling paychecks to cut back on spending, or delay purchases because they expect prices to fall further. Corporate revenues will suffer, stifling investment and leading to further salary cuts and layoffs, bankrupting families and firms.

Private surveys show that’s already starting to happen. In sectors of the economy favored by the government — such as electric vehicle-manufacturing and renewables — entry-level salaries declined by almost 10% in August from a peak in 2022, according to findings by Caixin Insight Group and Business Big Data Co.

A survey of 300 company executives by the Cheung Kong Graduate School of Business showed growth in labor costs last month was the weakest since April 2020, when China’s initial Covid lockdowns began to ease.

It’s a cycle the world has seen before in Japan starting in the 1990s during a period that came to be known as its “lost decades” — when a grinding stagnation followed a burst bubble in real estate and financial markets.

While Chinese officials have sought to stifle discussion about deflation, warning analysts to avoid using the term, it’s beginning to enter public dialogue. Former central bank Governor Yi Gang last week said rooting out deflation has to take priority for policymakers, a rare admission by a prominent figure in China that falling prices are threatening the outlook.

Yi called for “proactive fiscal policy and accommodative monetary policy” and said officials “should focus on fighting deflationary pressure,” at a panel discussion at the Bund Summit in Shanghai on Friday. China’s immediate goal should be to turn its GDP deflator positive in the coming quarters, he said.

So far, officials have given no sign of any significant shift from their cure-all of encouraging production rather than addressing weak demand with steps such as greater government spending on public services and consumer subsidies.

In a sign price pressures are becoming even more subdued, China’s core inflation — which strips out volatile items such as food and energy — cooled in August to the weakest in more than three years.

Expectations for deflation are spilling into markets, stoking a bond rally that’s sent yields to record lows and stoked official concerns that banks have become too exposed to interest-rate risks.

The weak price pressures are evident in the growth pace of China’s nominal GDP, which expanded just 4% in the second quarter — well under the nation’s real economic growth goal of around 5% this year.

At times of weak price gains, nominal expansion is a more useful indicator because it better reflects changes in wages, profits and government revenue, Luo Zhiheng, chief economist at Yuekai Securities Co., wrote in a note earlier this month.

For Jack Liu, a 37-year-old sales engineer of aluminum products in southern China, the impact hit home after realizing he no longer ordered extra eggs at breakfasts.

Plummeting market demand forced his company to cut prices and sell at a loss last year. That slashed his income to less than a 10th of what once exceeded 1 million yuan ($141,000), making mortgage payments a struggle.

“The country doesn’t admit there’s deflation,” said Liu, who lives in Foshan in Guangdong province. He has a modest following of 1,100 people on the Instagram-like Xiaohongshu, where he warns regularly about the danger of deflation.

The speed of the deterioration in China’s price outlook has taken the market by surprise.

Inflation was weaker than forecast in three of the past four months, growing just 0.6% in August — an increase due largely to a 2.8% pickup in food prices. Core inflation last month rose just 0.3% to remain below 1% for an 18th month.
Underscoring the drag on inflation, producer prices have been falling since late 2022. Manufacturers’ raw material and selling prices both contracted for the second month in August, official data shows, while charges by services and construction companies shrank at the fastest pace since April 2020.

The dilemma is that even monetary expansion in China could be deflationary by being mainly directed at the supply side of the economy, Michael Pettis, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, wrote in an article last month.

Meanwhile, the deflationary mindset is starting to take hold. Consumer confidence is hovering at a record low, and households report a growing willingness to save instead of spending or buying homes.

For Liu, the aluminum industry worker, as the pain deepens, the solution lies with policymakers in Beijing. “The government needs to at least take some concrete measures,” he said, “to lift consumption and improve people’s expectations.”
 
Deflation stalking China since last year is now showing signs of spiraling, threatening to worsen the outlook for the world’s second-largest economy and raising calls for immediate policy action.

Data released Monday confirmed that apart from food costs, consumer price growth barely registered in large swathes of the economy at a time when incomes are sagging.

A broader measure of economy-wide prices known as the gross domestic product deflator will likely extend its current five-quarter drop into 2025, according to Bloomberg Economics and analysts at banks including BNP Paribas SA. That would amount to China’s longest streak of deflation since data began in 1993.

“We are definitely in deflation and probably going through the second stage of deflation,” said Robin Xing, chief China economist at Morgan Stanley, citing evidence from wage decreases. “Experience from Japan suggests that the longer deflation drags on, the more stimulus China will eventually need to break the debt-deflation challenge.”

The danger for China is deflation could snowball by encouraging households reeling from falling paychecks to cut back on spending, or delay purchases because they expect prices to fall further. Corporate revenues will suffer, stifling investment and leading to further salary cuts and layoffs, bankrupting families and firms.

Private surveys show that’s already starting to happen. In sectors of the economy favored by the government — such as electric vehicle-manufacturing and renewables — entry-level salaries declined by almost 10% in August from a peak in 2022, according to findings by Caixin Insight Group and Business Big Data Co.

A survey of 300 company executives by the Cheung Kong Graduate School of Business showed growth in labor costs last month was the weakest since April 2020, when China’s initial Covid lockdowns began to ease.

It’s a cycle the world has seen before in Japan starting in the 1990s during a period that came to be known as its “lost decades” — when a grinding stagnation followed a burst bubble in real estate and financial markets.

While Chinese officials have sought to stifle discussion about deflation, warning analysts to avoid using the term, it’s beginning to enter public dialogue. Former central bank Governor Yi Gang last week said rooting out deflation has to take priority for policymakers, a rare admission by a prominent figure in China that falling prices are threatening the outlook.

Yi called for “proactive fiscal policy and accommodative monetary policy” and said officials “should focus on fighting deflationary pressure,” at a panel discussion at the Bund Summit in Shanghai on Friday. China’s immediate goal should be to turn its GDP deflator positive in the coming quarters, he said.

So far, officials have given no sign of any significant shift from their cure-all of encouraging production rather than addressing weak demand with steps such as greater government spending on public services and consumer subsidies.

In a sign price pressures are becoming even more subdued, China’s core inflation — which strips out volatile items such as food and energy — cooled in August to the weakest in more than three years.

Expectations for deflation are spilling into markets, stoking a bond rally that’s sent yields to record lows and stoked official concerns that banks have become too exposed to interest-rate risks.

The weak price pressures are evident in the growth pace of China’s nominal GDP, which expanded just 4% in the second quarter — well under the nation’s real economic growth goal of around 5% this year.

At times of weak price gains, nominal expansion is a more useful indicator because it better reflects changes in wages, profits and government revenue, Luo Zhiheng, chief economist at Yuekai Securities Co., wrote in a note earlier this month.

For Jack Liu, a 37-year-old sales engineer of aluminum products in southern China, the impact hit home after realizing he no longer ordered extra eggs at breakfasts.

Plummeting market demand forced his company to cut prices and sell at a loss last year. That slashed his income to less than a 10th of what once exceeded 1 million yuan ($141,000), making mortgage payments a struggle.

“The country doesn’t admit there’s deflation,” said Liu, who lives in Foshan in Guangdong province. He has a modest following of 1,100 people on the Instagram-like Xiaohongshu, where he warns regularly about the danger of deflation.

The speed of the deterioration in China’s price outlook has taken the market by surprise.

Inflation was weaker than forecast in three of the past four months, growing just 0.6% in August — an increase due largely to a 2.8% pickup in food prices. Core inflation last month rose just 0.3% to remain below 1% for an 18th month.
Underscoring the drag on inflation, producer prices have been falling since late 2022. Manufacturers’ raw material and selling prices both contracted for the second month in August, official data shows, while charges by services and construction companies shrank at the fastest pace since April 2020.

The dilemma is that even monetary expansion in China could be deflationary by being mainly directed at the supply side of the economy, Michael Pettis, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, wrote in an article last month.

Meanwhile, the deflationary mindset is starting to take hold. Consumer confidence is hovering at a record low, and households report a growing willingness to save instead of spending or buying homes.

For Liu, the aluminum industry worker, as the pain deepens, the solution lies with policymakers in Beijing. “The government needs to at least take some concrete measures,” he said, “to lift consumption and improve people’s expectations.”

Mr. Raptor - nice article, please post an article about the country with federal debt of 35 trillion $! Highest of any country! A country whose every budget has a huge deficit! And even after printing billions of dollars to fill in the gap, there is still massive amount of poverty, drug addiction and homelessness. Streets look like zombie apocalypse and cities look similar to war zones!

China is doing great comparatively, its growth and success is organic and it continues to increase its competitive edge over USA. USA should advise what it is doing? And how it is planning NOT to drive itself and its allies to the ground?
 
Deflation stalking China since last year is now showing signs of spiraling, threatening to worsen the outlook for the world’s second-largest economy and raising calls for immediate policy action.

Data released Monday confirmed that apart from food costs, consumer price growth barely registered in large swathes of the economy at a time when incomes are sagging.

A broader measure of economy-wide prices known as the gross domestic product deflator will likely extend its current five-quarter drop into 2025, according to Bloomberg Economics and analysts at banks including BNP Paribas SA. That would amount to China’s longest streak of deflation since data began in 1993.

“We are definitely in deflation and probably going through the second stage of deflation,” said Robin Xing, chief China economist at Morgan Stanley, citing evidence from wage decreases. “Experience from Japan suggests that the longer deflation drags on, the more stimulus China will eventually need to break the debt-deflation challenge.”

The danger for China is deflation could snowball by encouraging households reeling from falling paychecks to cut back on spending, or delay purchases because they expect prices to fall further. Corporate revenues will suffer, stifling investment and leading to further salary cuts and layoffs, bankrupting families and firms.

Private surveys show that’s already starting to happen. In sectors of the economy favored by the government — such as electric vehicle-manufacturing and renewables — entry-level salaries declined by almost 10% in August from a peak in 2022, according to findings by Caixin Insight Group and Business Big Data Co.

A survey of 300 company executives by the Cheung Kong Graduate School of Business showed growth in labor costs last month was the weakest since April 2020, when China’s initial Covid lockdowns began to ease.

It’s a cycle the world has seen before in Japan starting in the 1990s during a period that came to be known as its “lost decades” — when a grinding stagnation followed a burst bubble in real estate and financial markets.

While Chinese officials have sought to stifle discussion about deflation, warning analysts to avoid using the term, it’s beginning to enter public dialogue. Former central bank Governor Yi Gang last week said rooting out deflation has to take priority for policymakers, a rare admission by a prominent figure in China that falling prices are threatening the outlook.

Yi called for “proactive fiscal policy and accommodative monetary policy” and said officials “should focus on fighting deflationary pressure,” at a panel discussion at the Bund Summit in Shanghai on Friday. China’s immediate goal should be to turn its GDP deflator positive in the coming quarters, he said.

So far, officials have given no sign of any significant shift from their cure-all of encouraging production rather than addressing weak demand with steps such as greater government spending on public services and consumer subsidies.

In a sign price pressures are becoming even more subdued, China’s core inflation — which strips out volatile items such as food and energy — cooled in August to the weakest in more than three years.

Expectations for deflation are spilling into markets, stoking a bond rally that’s sent yields to record lows and stoked official concerns that banks have become too exposed to interest-rate risks.

The weak price pressures are evident in the growth pace of China’s nominal GDP, which expanded just 4% in the second quarter — well under the nation’s real economic growth goal of around 5% this year.

At times of weak price gains, nominal expansion is a more useful indicator because it better reflects changes in wages, profits and government revenue, Luo Zhiheng, chief economist at Yuekai Securities Co., wrote in a note earlier this month.

For Jack Liu, a 37-year-old sales engineer of aluminum products in southern China, the impact hit home after realizing he no longer ordered extra eggs at breakfasts.

Plummeting market demand forced his company to cut prices and sell at a loss last year. That slashed his income to less than a 10th of what once exceeded 1 million yuan ($141,000), making mortgage payments a struggle.

“The country doesn’t admit there’s deflation,” said Liu, who lives in Foshan in Guangdong province. He has a modest following of 1,100 people on the Instagram-like Xiaohongshu, where he warns regularly about the danger of deflation.

The speed of the deterioration in China’s price outlook has taken the market by surprise.

Inflation was weaker than forecast in three of the past four months, growing just 0.6% in August — an increase due largely to a 2.8% pickup in food prices. Core inflation last month rose just 0.3% to remain below 1% for an 18th month.
Underscoring the drag on inflation, producer prices have been falling since late 2022. Manufacturers’ raw material and selling prices both contracted for the second month in August, official data shows, while charges by services and construction companies shrank at the fastest pace since April 2020.

The dilemma is that even monetary expansion in China could be deflationary by being mainly directed at the supply side of the economy, Michael Pettis, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, wrote in an article last month.

Meanwhile, the deflationary mindset is starting to take hold. Consumer confidence is hovering at a record low, and households report a growing willingness to save instead of spending or buying homes.

For Liu, the aluminum industry worker, as the pain deepens, the solution lies with policymakers in Beijing. “The government needs to at least take some concrete measures,” he said, “to lift consumption and improve people’s expectations.”
A street sleeper holding a begging bowl criticizing a guy drinking "cheap" Champagne 😭
 
Mr. Raptor - nice article, please post an article about the country with federal debt of 35 trillion $! Highest of any country! A country whose every budget has a huge deficit! And even after printing billions of dollars to fill in the gap, there is still massive amount of poverty, drug addiction and homelessness. Streets look like zombie apocalypse and cities look similar to war zones!

China is doing great comparatively, its growth and success is organic and it continues to increase its competitive edge over USA. USA should advise what it is doing? And how it is planning NOT to drive itself and its allies to the ground?

$35T of debt in which most of it is owed to itself, and the US will never default on. The US has a total net worth of $160.8T. By far the wealthiest nation in human history.


Less than 12% of the US population lives in poverty and less than a fifth of one percent are homeless. The poverty line in the US for a family of 3 is $25K per year. You understand that’s more than double the global median income for families? Even the “poorest” in the US live vastly better lives than the majority of the world.

US share of world GDP is the highest it’s been since 2006. Its GDP will be around $10T higher than Chinas at the end of this year. Chinas trend line growth continues to decline.

So no, China isn’t doing great comparatively. It’s just trying to keep up at this point.
 
A street sleeper holding a begging bowl criticizing a guy drinking "cheap" Champagne 😭

US PPP GDP per capita is 3.5X that of China. US GDP will be around $10T higher than China this year.

Who is the street sleeper here?
 
US PPP GDP per capita is 3.5X that of China. US GDP will be around $10T higher than China this year.

Who is the street sleeper here?
Then why after tens of billions dollars and 2 decades, the richest state in US california is still struggling to put their first inch of high speed rail on the ground while even China's poorest provinces Xinjiang and Tibet can easily add multiple new HSR lines every year?
 
Then why after tens of billions dollars and 2 decades, the richest state in US california is still struggling to put their first inch of high speed rail on the ground while even China's poorest provinces Xinjiang and Tibet can easily add multiple new HSR lines every year?

What does high speed rail have to do with how wealthy Americans are? The vast majority of Americans either drive or fly and don’t care at all about high speed rail.

The average Chinese live in a 600sq ft apartment, the average American a 2,200 sq ft home. Americans have the highest disposable incomes in the world.
 
What does high speed rail have to do with how wealthy Americans are? The vast majority of Americans either drive or fly and don’t care at all about high speed rail.
Then why Callfornia is still trying?
 
$35T of debt in which most of it is owed to itself, and the US will never default on. The US has a total net worth of $160.8T. By far the wealthiest nation in human history.


Less than 12% of the US population lives in poverty and less than a fifth of one percent are homeless. The poverty line in the US for a family of 3 is $25K per year. You understand that’s more than double the global median income for families? Even the “poorest” in the US live vastly better lives than the majority of the world.

US share of world GDP is the highest it’s been since 2006. Its GDP will be around $10T higher than Chinas at the end of this year. Chinas trend line growth continues to decline.

So no, China isn’t doing great comparatively. It’s just trying to keep up at this point.

I don't know how much economics you understand but US prints the money to spend it. Others earn it. Other countries can't print equivalent amount of money because it devalues the currency and cause hyper inflation, neither can they use their domestic currency for international trade. US has made this self serving, yet globally destructive model that relies on its military complex to invade and destroy any other country that does not accept US dollar as global currency of trade.

In-organic growth as I said. That's going to end one day, as its based on unfair advantage.

Speaking of poverty, China has a 0% poverty rate since 2021.

25Ks for family of 3 means whatever it means in the US, but means jack shit for other countries. Other countries can probably have better life style for a family of 3 with just 10Ks per annum. For example if you earn 25K USD per annum in Pakistan or India, you probably have multiple house aids coming in to do your chores. You live the life of a multi-millionaire of America. In just 25k USD per annum. Hence your local definitions of poverty don't mean jack shit for other economies.

Also, the poverty rate is again calculated against USD. Not purchasing power parity. Someone who has less than 5.5USD to live per day. In 5.5 USD you can barely eat one time in USA however you can afford double that in China. These indicators and figures mean jack shit without having deeper understanding and analysis. Also, they are skewed in favor of the west and global status quo. If you google it, you will find select few articles bragging about select few metrics US is ahead than China. Without considering the other facts.

The 12% of US's poverty is the shitting in its pants and pissing on itself kind, dying of frostbite with no insurance and health care. Living on tents and cardboards. That's the epitome of western democracy, after decades of stable governments, self printing of unlimited amount of dollars, its common site to find people living in cardboard shelters. You walk at any metropolitan city's downtown street and you will smell piss everywhere. Because the homeless has no where to go! Somehow you want me to believe that its a great metric for a country which was literally printing pieces of paper and buying out anything that it wanted! Lol..

I'm not against US, I wish abundance and growth for everybody. And US does have some great things which make it great, and its people great. I'm against the politics of hatred that US creates, lying to its masses, brain washing them and teaching them hatred towards other countries, constant push of propaganda and other cheap tactics.

And its the very reason for its slow but steady decline. When you don't accept a problem, you can't fix it. USA's whole focus is on belittling China or Russia rather than work on something positive and reach its true potential. And the common American citizen is dumb enough to sing the same songs and get attuned with the government propaganda.

Its a catastrophe, the publics are unable to account government for the trillions of dollars being earned and spent despite not making much difference to the common American whose debt ridden and barely surviving pay check to pay check - 78% as per Forbes in 2023.
 
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I don't know how much economics you understand but US prints the money to spend it. Others earn it. Other countries can't print equivalent amount of money because it devalues the currency and cause hyper inflation, neither can they use their domestic currency for international trade. US has made this self serving, yet globally destructive model that relies on its military complex to invade and destroy any other country that does not accept US dollar as global currency of trade.

In-organic growth as I said. That's going to end one day, as its based on unfair advantage.

Speaking of poverty, China has a 0% poverty rate since 2021.

25Ks for family of 3 means whatever it means in the US, but means jack shit for other countries. Other countries can probably have better life style for a family of 3 with just 10Ks per annum. For example if you earn 25K USD per annum in Pakistan or India, you probably have multiple house aids coming in to do your chores. You live the life of a multi-millionaire of America. In just 25k USD per annum. Hence your local definitions of poverty don't mean jack shit for other economies.

Also, the poverty rate is again calculated against USD. Not purchasing power parity. Someone who has less than 5.5USD to live per day. In 5.5 USD you can barely eat one time in USA however you can afford double that in China. These indicators and figures mean jack shit without having deeper understanding and analysis. Also, they are skewed in favor of the west and global status quo. If you google it, you will find select few articles bragging about select few metrics US is ahead than China. Without considering the other facts.

The 12% of US's poverty is the shitting in its pants and pissing on itself kind, dying of frostbite with no insurance and health care. Living on tents and cardboards. That's the epitome of western democracy, after decades of stable governments, self printing of unlimited amount of dollars, its common site to find people living in cardboard shelters. You walk at any metropolitan city's downtown street and you will smell piss everywhere. Because the homeless has no where to go! Somehow you want me to believe that its a great metric for a country which was literally printing pieces of paper and buying out anything that it wanted! Lol..

I'm not against US, I wish abundance and growth for everybody. And US does have some great things which make it great, and its people great. I'm against the politics of hatred that US creates, lying to its masses, brain washing them and teaching them hatred towards other countries, constant push of propaganda and other cheap tactics.

And its the very reason for its slow but steady decline. When you don't accept a problem, you can't fix it. USA's whole focus is on belittling China or Russia rather than work on something positive and reach its true potential. And the common American citizen is dumb enough to sing the same songs and get attuned with the government propaganda.

Its a catastrophe, the publics are unable to account government for the trillions of dollars being earned and spent despite not making much difference to the common American whose debt ridden and barely surviving pay check to pay check - 78% as per Forbes in 2023.


Those figures are adjusted for inflation worldwide.🤣 The reality is that half the world is poorer than the “poorest” in the US. And Americans that fall under that line, government assistance such as food stamps, Medicaid, and public housing aren’t included. Even fast food restaurants are paying liveable wages these days. To be poor in America, you’re either physically or mentally disabled, a drug addict/alcoholic, or a lazy bum that lives in your mothers basement. Meanwhile you have dumps like Russia, where a quarter of all Russians don’t have indoor plumbing.

The average Russian/Chinese live in 600sqft apartments. The average American lives in a 2200sqft home.

America is by far the wealthiest nation in human history. America is top 8 in the world in PPP GDP per capita. Americans have the highest PPP disposable incomes in the world.

US GDP is set to exceed $50T by 2040. The US has never been wealthier.
 
Those figures are adjusted for inflation worldwide.🤣 The reality is that half the world is poorer than the “poorest” in the US. And Americans that fall under that line, government assistance such as food stamps, Medicaid, and public housing aren’t included. Even fast food restaurants are paying liveable wages these days. To be poor in America, you’re either physically or mentally disabled, a drug addict/alcoholic, or a lazy bum that lives in your mothers basement. Meanwhile you have dumps like Russia, where a quarter of all Russians don’t have indoor plumbing.

The average Russian/Chinese live in 600sqft apartments. The average American lives in a 2200sqft home.

America is by far the wealthiest nation in human history. America is top 8 in the world in PPP GDP per capita. Americans have the highest PPP disposable incomes in the world.

US GDP is set to exceed $50T by 2040. The US has never been wealthier.

"Adjusted for inflation...." Good, enjoy! Happy days!
 
Those figures are adjusted for inflation worldwide.🤣 The reality is that half the world is poorer than the “poorest” in the US. And Americans that fall under that line, government assistance such as food stamps, Medicaid, and public housing aren’t included. Even fast food restaurants are paying liveable wages these days. To be poor in America, you’re either physically or mentally disabled, a drug addict/alcoholic, or a lazy bum that lives in your mothers basement. Meanwhile you have dumps like Russia, where a quarter of all Russians don’t have indoor plumbing.

The average Russian/Chinese live in 600sqft apartments. The average American lives in a 2200sqft home.

America is by far the wealthiest nation in human history. America is top 8 in the world in PPP GDP per capita. Americans have the highest PPP disposable incomes in the world.

US GDP is set to exceed $50T by 2040. The US has never been wealthier.
doesnt matter whether its deflation, inflation, stagnation bla. bla. bla....as long as CN is raking in Bls and Bils surplus indefinitely...numb, numd :rofl:
 

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