Chinese Missile News

[Hendarto]

You DO know that US has been developing hypersonic cruise propulsion for very long time (much longer than China).

And HQ 17 is not what you think it is. It is not hypersonic cruise propulsion but it is a glide vehicle. Unrelated.

I am aware of it But they don't have much success with it I guess they have tested 5 or 6 times but 3 of them failed. But that was many years ago. It doesn't really matter whether you are hit by a Glide or cruise missile you are dead
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/R45811.pdf

U.S. Air Force The AGM-183 Air-Launched Rapid Response Weapon is to leverage DARPA’s Tactical Boost Glide technology to develop an air-launched hypersonic glide vehicle prototype capable of travelling at average speeds of between Mach 6.5 and Mach 8 at a range of approximately 1,000 miles.42 ARRW successfully completed a “captive carry” test flight in June 2019. It then experienced three successive failures before completing three successful flight tests in 2022.43 Although the first test of the full operational ARRW prototype in December 2022 was successful, ARRW’s flight testing record since then appears to have been mixed, with at least one 2023 test flight failure.44 The Air Force declined to comment on the outcome of a second 2023 test, noting only that it “gained valuable new insights into [ARRW’s] capabilities.”45 Following the March
the same!

China tested DF ZF missile 9 times before deploying HQ17, all of them successful

China has tested the DF-ZF HGV (previously referred to as the WU-14) at least nine times since 2014. U.S. defense officials have reportedly identified the range of the DF-ZF as approximately 1,200 miles and have stated that the vehicle may be capable of performing “extreme maneuvers” during flight.120 China reportedly fielded the DF-ZF in 2020.121 According to U.S. defense officials, China also successfully tested Starry Sky-2 (or Xing Kong2), a nuclear-capable hypersonic vehicle prototype, in August 2018.122 China claims the vehicle reached top speeds of Mach 6 and executed a series of in-flight maneuvers before landing.123 Unlike the DF-ZF, Starry Sky-2 is a “waverider” that uses powered flight after launch and derives lift from its own shockwaves. Some reports indicate that the Starry Sky-2 could be operational by 2025.124 U.S. officials have declined to comment on the program.125

 

[Hendarto]

The bigger challenge will be how a missile will be guided or a firing solution will be prepared over this range. If this is a hypersonic glider, then during the glide phase, it will not have ANY radio communication (unlike traditional SAM missiles like S-400's 400 KM missile). When it slows down, it may be way off to effectively lock on to the target.

That is not true Chinese scientist has invented ablative material that can pierce so-called plasma shield

Chinese Scientists Claim Breaking Impossible Tech Feat With New Hypersonic Vehicle Surface Material

Chinese scientists have claimed to developed a new surface material designed for hypersonic vehicles, capable of enduring long flights

www.eurasiantimes.com

Chinese Scientists Claim Breaking Impossible Tech Feat With New Hypersonic Vehicle Surface Material​

By
Ashish Dangwal
-
October 25, 2023

In what could be a “groundbreaking” development, Chinese scientists have claimed to develop a new surface material designed for hypersonic vehicles, capable of enduring long flights – a previously impossible technological feat.
This remarkable achievement promises to revolutionize the field of hypersonic flight and has far-reaching implications for military and aerospace applications.

According to the SCMP, the material’s resilience was tested in a rigorous experiment conducted by the Chinese military. The material was applied to the surface of a cutting-edge “waverider,” an aircraft designed to utilize the shock waves generated during its flight to enhance lift.
The report added that the air surrounding the hypersonic aircraft was superheated to temperatures reaching thousands of degrees Celsius during the test.

The innovation of this exceptionally smooth, non-ablative surface extends beyond its ability to withstand extreme temperatures. Notably, it exhibited the capacity to maintain critical internal components of the aircraft at a cool, stable temperature.

A component of the waverider hypersonic vehicle that uses new thermal protection technology. The yellow circle marks the antenna area. Photo: Key Laboratory of Aerodynamic Thermal Protection for Aerospace Vehicles, China Academy of Aerospace Aerodynamics

Furthermore, the wireless signals effortlessly traversed the specialized surface, enabling seamless communication and target identification throughout the entirety of the flight.
The implications of this wireless connectivity in the hypersonic context are vast, promising unprecedented advancements in military and aerospace communication systems.

However, the exact details regarding the time and location of this test remain undisclosed. The report added that such new thermal protection technology could potentially advance the creation of a new wave of reusable hypersonic vehicles characterized by extended range and higher speeds.
Chinese researchers assert, “The hypersonic race has moved into a new stage.” Ai and his colleagues said, with “enormous challenges and opportunities.”

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Realy Patriot can't even stop Houthi drone attack on a Saudi Arabia refinery back in 2018

Why Did American Patriot Missiles Fail To Stop the Houthi's Attacks?

And what does it mean for the bigger picture?

nationalinterest.org

But one thing is clear. The attack revealed the limits of Saudi Arabia’s seemingly sophisticated air-defense system. Riyadh in recent years has spent billions of dollars building up six battalions of U.S.-made Patriot surface-to-air missiles and associated radars. The Patriots didn’t stop the recent attack.

And it wasn’t the first time Saudi Arabia’s Patriots have failed. At least five Patriots apparently missed, malfunctioned or otherwise failed when Saudi forces tried to intercept a barrage of rockets targeting Riyadh on March 25, 2018.

Houthi forces fired at least seven rockets at Saudi Arabia that night. The Saudi military launched Patriot Advanced Capability-2 missiles in an attempt to destroy the Houthi rockets in mid-air. The Saudis claimed seven of the Patriots struck their targets.

This had been debunked several times on old PDF , they had no 360-degree coverage

 

[muhammed45]

That's technically possible but practically, It will be too slow.

Unless China develops new kind of fuel and missile technology that could break every existing record. Using a gliding warhead is one of those innovations that makes this possible. Which will need satellite based radars with real-time detection capability within range of that missile.

China in military field has been innovative. Let's if this one becomes a reality too

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Here is the dimension of the said missile

https://twitter.com/x/status/1773394899897024643

How can you detect/track these targets,? Over the horizon radars? They used only for space and and upper atmosphere detecting and tracking can't able to give enough information to interceptors to engage, and if you will engage them with the help of Satellites than other issues comes around mostly low orbit Satellites are traveling more than mach 11 so these Satellites have a little time to give track/engagement data (within seconds) to interceptors for engagement, if you use geostationary Satellites, way upper than low orbit Satellites (23,000 km to 35,000 km above earth) for tracking/engagement, than it will be easy targets for USN SM-6/SM-3 and THAAD

 

[DevendraRajput]

That is not true Chinese scientist has invented ablative material that can pierce so-called plasma shield

Chinese Scientists Claim Breaking Impossible Tech Feat With New Hypersonic Vehicle Surface Material

Chinese scientists have claimed to developed a new surface material designed for hypersonic vehicles, capable of enduring long flights

www.eurasiantimes.com

Chinese Scientists Claim Breaking Impossible Tech Feat With New Hypersonic Vehicle Surface Material​

By
Ashish Dangwal
-
October 25, 2023

In what could be a “groundbreaking” development, Chinese scientists have claimed to develop a new surface material designed for hypersonic vehicles, capable of enduring long flights – a previously impossible technological feat.
This remarkable achievement promises to revolutionize the field of hypersonic flight and has far-reaching implications for military and aerospace applications.

According to the SCMP, the material’s resilience was tested in a rigorous experiment conducted by the Chinese military. The material was applied to the surface of a cutting-edge “waverider,” an aircraft designed to utilize the shock waves generated during its flight to enhance lift.
The report added that the air surrounding the hypersonic aircraft was superheated to temperatures reaching thousands of degrees Celsius during the test.

The innovation of this exceptionally smooth, non-ablative surface extends beyond its ability to withstand extreme temperatures. Notably, it exhibited the capacity to maintain critical internal components of the aircraft at a cool, stable temperature.

A component of the waverider hypersonic vehicle that uses new thermal protection technology. The yellow circle marks the antenna area. Photo: Key Laboratory of Aerodynamic Thermal Protection for Aerospace Vehicles, China Academy of Aerospace Aerodynamics

Furthermore, the wireless signals effortlessly traversed the specialized surface, enabling seamless communication and target identification throughout the entirety of the flight.
The implications of this wireless connectivity in the hypersonic context are vast, promising unprecedented advancements in military and aerospace communication systems.

However, the exact details regarding the time and location of this test remain undisclosed. The report added that such new thermal protection technology could potentially advance the creation of a new wave of reusable hypersonic vehicles characterized by extended range and higher speeds.
Chinese researchers assert, “The hypersonic race has moved into a new stage.” Ai and his colleagues said, with “enormous challenges and opportunities.”

This is a lot of hogwash. The entire article is a copy of a SCMP article, which is actually a big piece of BS (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...s-next-gen-waverider-revolutionary-technology).

It misrepresents a paper published in Chinese Journal of Physics of Gases. You can get the paper from here : http://qtwl.xml-journal.net/en/article/doi/10.19527/j.cnki.2096-1642.1034 .

The part you are highlighting is laughably wrong!

Here is the original item from the paper, ask you chinese friends to translate if you can not read it.


It says non-ablation material applied to antenna cover (or radome) of a waver-rider, the experiment was success and measurement of temperature of material was normal. It says NOTHING about transmission and reception. The article jumped on "radome" to conclude that communication during plasma black-out has been achieved. The paper makes no such claims.

Be very careful when you look at the SCMP articles. They are worse than fanboys wet dream.

 

[Hendarto]

This is a lot of hogwash. The entire article is a copy of a SCMP article, which is actually a big piece of BS (https://www.scmp.com/news/china/sci...s-next-gen-waverider-revolutionary-technology).

It misrepresents a paper published in Chinese Journal of Physics of Gases. You can get the paper from here : http://qtwl.xml-journal.net/en/article/doi/10.19527/j.cnki.2096-1642.1034 .

The part you are highlighting is laughably wrong!

Here is the original item from the paper, ask you chinese friends to translate if you can not read it.

View attachment 29904
It says non-ablation material applied to antenna cover (or radome) of a waver-rider, the experiment was success and measurement of temperature of material was normal. It says NOTHING about transmission and reception. The article jumped on "radome" to conclude that communication during plasma black-out has been achieved. The paper makes no such claims.

Be very careful when you look at the SCMP articles. They are worse than fanboys wet dream.

Do you know the purpose of ablative material is to cool the nose cone by burning itself I guess the team clearly said that and it was published in a scientific journal for peer review. Anyway, we are debating past the water under the bridge. China has an operational DF 17 even DF27 a hypersonic missile that they have tested 9 times and they all hit the bull mark. So you can believe what you want to believe!

SCMP clearly said that the team
The smooth, non-ablative surface not only kept critical components inside the aircraft cool, but allowed wireless signals to go in and out freely, making target identification and communication possible throughout the flight, according to analysis of telemetry data.

“The test flight ended in a complete success,” the team wrote in a paper published in the peer-reviewed journal Physics of Gases last month. They did not reveal the time and location of the test.

 

[Hendarto]

This had been debunked several times on old PDF , they had no 360-degree coverage

Well the last Russian attack in Kiev exactly does that by flying in the back of a Patriot and you can see the result Kiev got bombed

 

[DevendraRajput]

SCMP clearly said that the team
The smooth, non-ablative surface not only kept critical components inside the aircraft cool, but allowed wireless signals to go in and out freely, making target identification and communication possible throughout the flight, according to analysis of telemetry data.

“The test flight ended in a complete success,” the team wrote in a paper published in the peer-reviewed journal Physics of Gases last month. They did not reveal the time and location of the test.

And SCMP are misrepresenting the real paper here. In the entire paper there is no mention of wireless signals crossing plasma barrier. You can read the paper from there : http://qtwl.xml-journal.net/en/article/doi/10.19527/j.cnki.2096-1642.1034

The test was complete success and in the paper it was further qualified as the material having normal temperature range as measured. There was no mention of wireless communication. If it was the point, they would have quoted attenuation and other details.

None were there.

Do you know the purpose of ablative material is to cool the nose cone by burning itself I guess the team clearly said that and it was published in a scientific journal for peer review.

Oh I know it very well, whats your point? Ablative material in re-entry vehicles goes back to 50s or possible even earlier when atmospheric re-entry was being studied was first proposed in 1920 by Goddard himself!

 

[Hendarto]

Look, you got a point, you post. You dont have one or you can not read research papers, say it. Because this shit looks like trolling to me.

And you keep denying China can't possibly have a hypersonic missile because it is impossible due to plasma covering the nose cone. But they have many brigades operational now. They tested 9 times go look at H. Kehnman's site he documented each test! Can you explain that? Unless you live in a parallel universe

 

[DevendraRajput]

And you keep denying China can't possibly have a hypersonic missile because it is impossible due to plasma covering the nose cone. But they have many brigades operational now. They tested 9 times go look at H. Kehnman's site he documented each test! Can you explain that? Unless you live in a parallel universe

I never said China can not possibly have a hypersonic missile. I did no such thing.

I said it is not possible for ANYONE (that includes any country) to communicate with a projectile moving at hypersonic veolicities ( especially mach 10 +) in atmosphere due to plasma barrier (which is a well know phenomenon).

Yes, Chinese have many hypersonic weapons deployed but none to target aircrafts. The ones that are deployed, fly blind for a significant part of their flight and slow down during terminal chase when they need to seek their targets using radar. This may work for buildings or ships but not for planes, because, duh, planes are much more agile compared to ship and espeically buildings.

 

[Hendarto]

I never said China can not possibly have a hypersonic missile. I did no such thing.

I said it is not possible for ANYONE (that includes any country) to communicate with a projectile moving at hypersonic veolicities ( especially mach 10 +) in atmosphere due to plasma barrier (which is a well know phenomenon).

Yes, Chinese have many hypersonic weapons deployed but none to target aircrafts. The ones that are deployed, fly blind for a significant part of their flight and slow down during terminal chase when they need to seek their targets using radar. This may work for buildings or ships but not for planes, because, duh, planes are much more agile compared to ship and espeically buildings.

Now you are moving the goal post before you implied in your posting that "blah blah plasma shield" prevents radar from finding the target. Now the speed?

How do you think air-to-air missile find their target? Duh, they use radar too! If the radar can find targets on the ground which is more difficult because of clutter. It should be easier to find targets in the air with no clutter. Ever heard of active radar homing?

There are a whole lot of supersonic missiles mach 5 or over. So does satellite rendezvous docking with tremendous speed but they docked. They used radar too so speed and guidance are no problem It has been done every day

Supersonic air-to-air missiles travel at speeds of Mach 1–5, which is 767 miles per hour–3,836 miles per hour. Here are some examples of supersonic air-to-air missiles and their speeds:

• R-37M
  This Russian missile travels at Mach 6 and has a range of up to 400 kilometers. It is considered one of the most potent munitions in Russian combat aviation.
• Kh-31A
  This missile has a maximum flight speed of 1,000 meters per second and a firing range of 7.5–70 kilometers.

 

[That_Guy]

Ah...Someone spoke of 'vaporware'...???

@Deino
The funny thing is, even if it ends up being real, they'd need to accurately be able to detect a fast moving object and track it over 2000+ KM, and wait hours in travel time, and hope the target doesn't just fly out of range by the time the missile gets there.

At certain distances and at certain targets, this missile is pretty much useless.

 

[Developereo]

LOL, on the one hand, the detractors are saying that such a long range missile is impractical and, at the same time, claiming that the US is developing even longer range missiles.

Also, at Mach 10, the missile would have a travel time of 10 minutes to target (2000km). Even if detected instantly on launch, how much evasive action can an AWACS take in 10 minutes? A barrage of such missiles to cover the region can be possible if they are cheap enough.

 

[MS Sandhu]

Realy Patriot can't even stop Houthi drone attack on a Saudi Arabia refinery back in 2018

Take Patriot’s performance in Saudi Arabia for example, between 2015 and mid 2019, Patriot batteries in Saudi service intercepted more than 230 Iranian ballistic missiles – that’s more than 1 intercept every week and highlighted the volume of ballistic missile they faced. By 2021, Saudi Arabia reported Houthi firing 430 ballistic missiles and 851 drones in 6 years that resulted in 59 civilian casualties.[1]

For context, during Iran-Iraq war the very first Iraqi Scud killed 21 Iranians. In all, Iraq launched 189 Scuds throughout the conflict that killed 2,000 Iranians and injured another 6,000 while forcing a quarter of Tehran’s popular to flee the city. So it isn’t far fetched to call Patriot being quite effective in Saudi Arabia, having dealt with an order of magnitude more ballistic missiles than any other Air Defence system in the world. This is all the while using older PAC-2 GEM-T interceptors with fragmentation warheads.

By Abhirup Sengupta on Qoura