Discussion: India Pakistan Clash in the Next Few Months?

[Developereo]

Oh dear.
So you understand India as little as do the BJP leadership.
There is a very sharp difference between the Sanghi politicians and the administrative services and professional classes, in terms of intelligence.

Call me conspiratorial but I believe there is a 'deep state' in every country that makes sure the politicians are reined in within parameters that the deep state considers acceptable.

After all, just because some charismatic country bumpkin can make good speeches and rally crowds does not mean they are qualified to steer the ship towards long term goals.

The Indian deep state is on par with the best of their Chinese and Western counterparts.

 

[gangsta_rap]

The Indian deep state is on par with the best of their Chinese and Western counterparts.

The Indian security establishment has a clear definition of what 'national interest' entails. It's part of the reason why they don't have soft or hard coups since the consequences would be against national interest.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Call me conspiratorial but I believe there is a 'deep state' in every country that makes sure the politicians are reined in within parameters that the deep state considers acceptable.

After all, just because some charismatic country bumpkin can make good speeches and rally crowds does not mean they are qualified to steer the ship towards long term goals.

The Indian deep state is on par with the best of their Chinese and Western counterparts.

I wish.
They had the capability, but were undermined - undermined themselves - due to two factors.
One, their own concentration in the hands of sweaty-palmed civil servants from the ancient seat of north Indian civilisation, Magadh (we now call it Bihar). There is an unprecedented concentration of civil service entrants in that state, that is completely and most innocently transactional. Since 'moral principle' is not a subject in the civil service examination, they can't spell it.
Two, the feral cunning and (equally innocent) refusal to consider boundaries by the BJP leadership. I do not want to write thirty pages on this, as easily as I can, for fear of coming to a boil.
Please stop being provocative. I am an elderly man walking around with stents embedded, and your flinging these gobbets of meat in my path is really not a nice thing to do.

The Indian security establishment has a clear definition of what 'national interest' entails. It's part of the reason why they don't have soft or hard coups since the consequences would be against national interest.

Yeah, right.
Gawd, these exchanges are sometimes physically painful.

 

[Developereo]

The Indian security establishment has a clear definition of what 'national interest' entails. It's part of the reason why they don't have soft or hard coups since the consequences would be against national interest.

More than political stability, they understand that 'national interest' cannot be served from a beggar's perch. They understand the importance of economic strength and the fact that 21st century competitiveness demands a citizenry with 21st century education and a country with 21st century infrastructure. Sure, the politicians will be driven by greed and will line their pockets every chance they get but, as long as they deliver certain results, they can have their little cake.

That calculus is completely missing in the Pakistani deep state.

 

[Joe Shearer]

The Indian security establishment has a clear definition of what 'national interest' entails. It's part of the reason why they don't have soft or hard coups since the consequences would be against national interest.

I made the mistake of sitting back for a moment and actually thinking about the content of this post.
The faces of Doval 'Caal me Baand, Jems Baand', Hari Kumar, Manoj Pandey float up before me.
Suddenly I feel nauseous, I don't know why.

More than political stability, they understand that 'national interest' cannot be served from a beggar's perch. They understand the importance of economic strength and the fact that 21st century competitiveness demands a citizenry with 21st century education and a country with 21st century infrastructure. Sure, the politicians will be driven by greed and will line their pockets every chance they get but, as long as they deliver certain results, they can have their little cake.

That calculus is completely missing in the Pakistani deep state.

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More than political stability, they understand that 'national interest' cannot be served from a beggar's perch. They understand the importance of economic strength and the fact that 21st century competitiveness demands a citizenry with 21st century education and a country with 21st century infrastructure. Sure, the politicians will be driven by greed and will line their pockets every chance they get but, as long as they deliver certain results, they can have their little cake.

That calculus is completely missing in the Pakistani deep state.

OK, I get it.
Clear and deliberate provocation.
Wind him up, sit back and listen to the old fool go 'Snap', 'Crackle' and 'Pop'.
No more. I'm not reacting to this bait no more.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Eff off, @TLDRguy. This means you.

 

[vsdoc]

Regardless of where I personally stand in the social and political spectrum, i sincerely hope @Kaniska is leaning comfortably right of center so as to have some balance in completely civil India centric discourse here.

I say this with zero malice towards @Joe Shearer but the fact of the matter is that dialog in India between the Sanghis and the Secularists is at a complete nadir standstill. It is non-existent. Except maybe at a personal level, people to people, but even there beyond a point both sides simply let off and say elections mein dekhenge.

Indian forums without exception all lean various degrees right, well away from the center. Dialog is impossible there.

WhatsApp has its silos. Zero cross pollination. Either you are banned and/or burn the group down. Or if less confrontational, you simply hit Exit and Delete from your life.

Friendships of decades have irrevocably broken. Families are split. So what hope from anonymous people on the internet?

Just ranting. Don't mind me.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Kingfisher]

I don't think it does. They are near peer faiths, with the monotheist part (Zoroastrianism) about 5000 years old. Predating that, seamlessly in continuum of ancient Persian theology, was Mithraism, Manichaeism, and parallel offshoots such as Babakism, moving from earlier nature worship (the pagan elementals, Gods), to Dualism, to the distilled Mazdaiism or Mazdayasniism (Zoroastrianism). Zarathushtra's earliest Gathas correlate closely to the Rig Veda.

Newer offshoots are Yazdiism and more recently Bahaiism.

Zoroastrianism as with the Persian empire (all 3 of the major ones - the Achaemenids, the Parthians, and the Sassanids) was a world religion.

With Mithraism the official religion of Rome after their defeat by the Persians. All the way to what is now Scotland (relics found at the Hadrian Wall). And another Chinese offshoot of the Sogdians, after their break of Sogdania from the Achaemenid control, and absorption into the Chinese empires.

Cheers, Doc

Sahi hai, most impressive.

What went wrong, but, bawaji.. aaj ki date me fuss kyu ho gaya tumhro lot ?

 

[vsdoc]

Sahi hai, most impressive.

What went wrong, but, bawaji.. aaj ki date me fuss kyu ho gaya tumhro lot ?

Our lot, the kamjor khoon equivalent of your lot, has a unique genetic transmutation called the God Switch.

I've written extensively on it (all major IDs of mine) on LOF.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Kingfisher]

Our lot, the kamjor khoon equivalent of your lot, has a unique genetic transmutation called the God Switch.

I've written extensively on it (all major IDs of mine) on LOF.

Cheers, Doc

You are a Heyoka type trickster shaman, beating the war drums and singing and regaling us with a funny yet cautionary tale. One that was forged both in the fire of ancestral experience, and on the pyre of a lost civilization.

I remember quite well your volte-face ideological acrobatics, as the murricans' would say.. flipped on a dime. Also coincided perfectly with some political turmoil in Mahastan at the time..

I put it down to you having a strong preference for one of the Thekaray sons, like shayaad aapki kuch siyasi/rajneetik (and binnus) dealing hongi with one of them yahoos.

Can't put it past you guys.. aiveen ni creamy layer ban jaate log

 

[vsdoc]

You are a Heyoka type trickster shaman, beating the war drums and singing and regaling us with a funny yet cautionary tale. One that was forged both in the fire of ancestral experience, and on the pyre of a lost civilization.

I remember quite well your volte-face ideological acrobatics, as the murricans' would say.. flipped on a dime. Also coincided perfectly with some political turmoil in Mahastan at the time..

I put it down to you having a strong preference for one of the Thekaray sons, like shayaad aapki kuch siyasi/rajneetik (and binnus) dealing hongi with one of them yahoos.

Can't put it past you guys.. aiveen ni creamy layer ban jaate log

Please don't mind us. We are all Indian. But we definitely do not want to be controlled by you northie types.

RSS ka gadh bhi hamara hi hai.

Maha Rashtra waise hi naam nahin pada.

We are comfortable being a nation within a nation. Not having got a single PM, in spite of running India financially in the present, and breaking the back of Muslim rule in the past.

Chalo cchodo. Aao saare jahan se accha gaayen.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

Regardless of where I personally stand in the social and political spectrum, i sincerely hope @Kaniska is leaning comfortably right of center so as to have some balance in completely civil India centric discourse here.

I say this with zero malice towards @Joe Shearer but the fact of the matter is that dialog in India between the Sanghis and the Secularists is at a complete nadir standstill. It is non-existent. Except maybe at a personal level, people to people, but even there beyond a point both sides simply let off and say elections mein dekhenge.

Indian forums without exception all lean various degrees right, well away from the center. Dialog is impossible there.

WhatsApp has its silos. Zero cross pollination. Either you are banned and/or burn the group down. Or if less confrontational, you simply hit Exit and Delete from your life.

Friendships of decades have irrevocably broken. Families are split. So what hope from anonymous people on the internet?

Just ranting. Don't mind me.

Cheers, Doc

We know things are bad when someone like you can't spell 'dialogue'.
No more dialogue possible.

 

[Kingfisher]

Please don't mind us. We are all Indian. But we definitely do not want to be controlled by you northie types.

RSS ka gadh bhi hamara hi hai.

Maha Rashtra waise hi naam nahin pada.

We are comfortable being a nation within a nation. Not having got a single PM, in spite of running India financially in the present, and breaking the back of Muslim rule in the past.

Chalo cchodo. Aao saare jahan se accha gaayen.

Cheers, Doc

Mazel Tov, todaah !

First class cricket exists for a reason.. Have heard stories of an era of Marashtra dominance and how certain others were much salty.

but test wardi mein fir team mates hai.

and sorry bro, saare jahan is not kosher. mai toh vande matram gaa raha, aap bhi vande mataram gao.

and then baad me khao the gao also, legit

 

[vsdoc]

Can't put it past you guys.. aiveen ni creamy layer ban jaate log

I was discussing this with someone else last night.

India over the past decade is much like the once Kaiser ruled Germany of the 30's.

The creamy layer will make way for and adjust with whoever sways the masses.

But their preeminence will be ensured.

Take a look at Ratan Tata "sir" the darling if the Sanghis to get a whiff of what I'm saying.

And take a wild guess what happens if and when the Congress comes back.

Cheers, Doc

We know things are bad when someone like you can't spell 'dialogue'.
No more dialogue possible.

Joe I spent the very early part of my career working predominantly with Americans. Its been an unfortunate switch. Which confuses my laptop as well.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Joe Shearer]

I was discussing this with someone else last night.

India over the past decade is much like the once Kaiser ruled Germany of the 30's.

The creamy layer will make way for and adjust with whoever sways the masses.

But their preeminence will be ensured.

Take a look at Ratan Tata "sir" the darling if the Sanghis to get a whiff of what I'm saying.

And take a wild guess what happens if and when the Congress comes back.

Cheers, Doc



Joe I spent the very early part of my career working predominantly with Americans. Its been an unfortunate switch. Which confuses my laptop as well.

Cheers, Doc

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