F-16 Officially In Ukrainian Service

[Lulldapull]

Iranis don't have the tech to shoot down a stealth jet as we speak.
Though maybe they can shootdown with the help of russia and China.

Iranis been easily tracking F-35's flying out of Al-Dhafra UAE for years now. They detected and brought down the RQ-170 stealth drone 10 years ago.

 

[Lulldapull]

45 year old F-16 ain't going to make a difference. They need F-35.

Poor peepal believe anything man. Apocalypse coming, projectile diarrhea, deathly dysentery, typhus, Armageddon rubbish like third class Hollywood action. Shitful existence.......Migrant musings.......Long list........

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

https://www.key.aero/article/have-glass-making-f-16-less-observable

Look at the article above about the F-16. There are several other sources about this. Regarding the Su-35S, I would like to know where you got that statement from.

It has been known for a long time that the extensive use of RAM materials and new composite materials in the structure of the Su-35S allowed it to greatly reduce its weight and its frontal RCS, so that an estimated RCS index of up to 1m2 was achieved, which puts it on the same level as fighters such as European Deltas or 4th generation North American fighters when treated with RAM. Itae (an institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences in Moscow) has developed materials and techniques that provide a very significant reduction in the RCS of its fighters;

For example, the Mig-29 SMT, which has an estimated frontal RCS of 5m2 (without weapons), has an RCS of 1m2 if treated with Russian RAM material. Itae also managed to reduce the estimated RCS of the Su-35 (6m2) to 1m2 in the frontal quadrant. The engine face was covered with magnetic RAM and the air intake walls also received the same material, which was applied in thin layers between 0.7 and 1.4 mm and applied by digitally controlled spray. Ceramic RAM was applied to the engines and exhausts. The canopy was treated with metallic and anti-reflective material. The antenna was changed position and treated with RAM material, and the radome received selective coating, which changes the conductivity. The difference is that while the Russians work heavily with signature-reducing composite materials, they have not worked as much on RCS reduction as the Americans do. In addition, Europeans also tend to work better with the use of composite materials than with shape techniques. It is no coincidence that there are few stealth aircraft by shape. Furthermore, although the Su-35 is based on the Su-27 platform, they are very different aircraft, since the Su-35 uses several types of composite materials, as well as a large amount of titanium alloys. Even though the Su-35 is capable of carrying more weapons, fuel and equipment, it obviously needs to have its structure reinforced. To make matters worse, the RCS of the Su-27 is estimated at 3-6 m2, depending on the configuration.

In this way, comparing a fighter developed in the 2000s with a fighter designed and developed in the 1970s is the same as wanting to compare a Mirage with a Rafale, but since your intention is to denigrate Russian equipment, without any evidentiary basis, I believe there is no need to dwell on this any longer. After all, what sticks most here are narratives and I am not concerned with that, only with facts.

There is no way a Su-35S would have an RCS comparable to 8-10m2. Generally speaking, 4th generation medium fighters have an RCS between 1-10m2 and heavy fighters between 10-20m2. 4.5 generation fighters have employed a reduction in RCS to some extent. The Typhoon, Rafale, F/A-18E/F and Su-35S programs have sought to reduce their RCS relative to their 4G predecessors: Tornado, Mirage 2000, F/A-18 Hornet and Su-27 respectively. So the Typhoon, Rafale and Super Hornet have reduced their RCS to somewhere between 0.1-1m2, while the Su-35S has somewhere between 1-5m2. Compared to 4th generation models, the 4.5 generation will be detected at a range 25-50% lower. Conventional aircraft of similar geometries and sizes tend to have similar RCS. The F-15 and Su-27 are in the 10-15m² range, the Tornado is likely in that range as well. The initial RCS of the F/A-18A/B is believed to be in the 5-10m² realm, but the F/A-18C/D began incorporating RAM in 1989. The RCS of the F-16A is around ~5m², the C model is slightly stealthier than the F-16A, with an RCS between 1-3m².

In other words, the transfer of 65 F-16A/B MLUs from Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands to Ukraine will still lag behind the RCS of the Su-35S.

The biggest proof that the RCS of a Su-35S is the lack of evidence. I have never read this in any source. It's funny that you are trying to justify yourself here.

I'm asking you to give me a proof/backup of your Su-35 RCS reduction claim not F16s RCS reduction article lol

 

[Pradotlc]

The F-16s are more durable than their Russian counterparts. In a long war of attrition they will wear down their Russian aircraft. As @j_hungary pointed out the best use of F-16s is to blunt Russian ground advances.

Also Ukraine needs 250-300 F-16s (the more the merrier) to wage an effective war of attrition.

I have no idea what weapons are being supplied along with the F-16s.

sure if you can class 40 year old airframes that have been worn out...

 

[Pradotlc]

I have a feeling, PAF exploits using F16 against Indian Su30 and Mig21 are factor to push F16s in this conflict. Insistence on using F16s over other platforms, European or even other American products, is very interesting.

complete different situations.. PAF F-16s were operated by world class pilots, backed by an excellent GCI, AWACS, JF-17 , AEW etc PAF had years to perfect to what it planned to do against Indians..

Ukrainians have basically lost the war .. and losing badly on all fronts.

there is no comparison.. Ukrainians cannot do what PAF did.

 

[Taimoor]

huh? Where does it say and how "abundant" the information is form?

Again, I don't see any other than you posting an article and then saying they show you an AA configuration. I mean, that may be enough for you, it is not enough for me

Your inability to read and digest abundant of info available in public domain, frankly is not my problem.

I never said F-16 is doing CAS now, go back to my very first post

What??? you wasted my time arguing with me that due to their low numbers, right now, they can only be employed in CAS roles! And I am telling you since we started this discussion, that right now, pressing issue is air to air support role they can provide, not air to ground.

You do know first of all, it also included JDAM, right? Dude going to use JDAM in "Close Combat Air Support"?? Hahahahahaha...........oh wait....

Second of all, those HARM are for SEAD, Storm Shadow are for ground attack, and NONE, as in ZERO, of them are for engaging air target.

All the function it lay out on that particular article points to anything BUT an air mission capable flight. And finally, you don't just kill enemy aircraft to push back Russian plane on the frontline, that's what the SEAD/DEAD flight were for, and those aren't Anti-Air mission. You aren't talking about pushing Russian air force out, you are talking about ADA and CAP mission.

If you don't understand the different concept, I see no further point talking to you.

For all the discussion we had, all you can provide to prove your point for CAS role is JDAM, without any physical evidence of them provided to Ukrainians. But even for arguments sake, lets say that they do have JDAM, its just one weapon system, whereas the rest of the of inventory is for standoff engagements, be it in air or ground (HARM/storm shadow/AIM120), and cannot be used for CAS role. I am sure its not hard to comprehend?

You keep on harping about CAS! let that sink in.

 

[Taimoor]

complete different situations.. PAF F-16s were operated by world class pilots, backed by an excellent GCI, AWACS, JF-17 , AEW etc PAF had years to perfect to what it planned to do against Indians..

Ukrainians have basically lost the war .. and losing badly on all fronts.

there is no comparison.. Ukrainians cannot do what PAF did.

True, I am just saying when you buy a product, you look at its past history/reviews. F16 is standout platform with recent successes against Russian jets. Even TuAF F16 shot down Russian jet over Turkish/Syria border, if that is considered a "recent" event. What Ukrainians can or cannot do with them, thats completely different discussion.

 

[j_hungary]

Your inability to read and digest abundant of info available in public domain, frankly is not my problem.

I see nothing, and since you said it was abundant, thta make it your problem

What??? you wasted my time arguing with me that due to their low numbers, right now, they can only be employed in CAS roles! And I am telling you since we started this discussion, that right now, pressing issue is air to air support role they can provide, not air to ground.

Dude, now it really wasn't my problem you don't read my first post. I said what I said there, and it was right there

For all the discussion we had, all you can provide to prove your point for CAS role is JDAM, without any physical evidence of them provided to Ukrainians. But even for arguments sake, lets say that they do have JDAM, its just one weapon system, whereas the rest of the of inventory is for standoff engagements, be it in air or ground (HARM/storm shadow/AIM120), and cannot be used for CAS role. I am sure its not hard to comprehend?

You keep on harping about CAS! let that sink in.

First of all, I didn't provide anything, I didn't write that article, I don't have a say what he wrote in, what he didn't

Second of all, JDAM is well documented being used and transferred to the Ukrainian since 2023.

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Finally, it's not just one weapon, they also have Zuni Rocket, SDB for close air support

US pledges longer-range ‘small-diameter bomb’ for Ukraine

The U.S. announced Friday it will send Ukraine the Boeing-made ground-launched small-diameter bomb, a weapon that can double its strike range.

www.defensenews.com

US to supply Ukraine with 4,000 Zuni 127mm rockets able to engage air

According to the new list of weapons of the U.S. military aid package for Ukraine published on January 6, 2023, the United States will provide 4,000 Zuni,

www.armyrecognition.com

And no, none of what it had in this article is for Aerial target. Which is what you said, again, if you still don't know basic stuff like this, then I don't have anything to talk to you about.

I mean, you can go on and believe they were used for CAP and I can believe it was for CAS, in the end, as I said, it ain't up to us, so we can come back and keep berating each other, that would go no where.

So this is going to be my last post to you, I am not going to reply you.

 

[Taimoor]

I see nothing, and since you said it was abundant, thta make it your problem

Shown you many publications from think tanks, cover stories from well known media houses, yet still in denial? You sound like a spoiled child, hard to please.

Dude, now it really wasn't my problem you don't read my first post. I said what I said there, and it was right there

Mate, this is all you been repeating over and over again. CAS! this is all you been trying to prove, which of course is non sense.

First of all, I didn't provide anything, I didn't write that article, I don't have a say what he wrote in, what he didn't

Second of all, JDAM is well documented being used and transferred to the Ukrainian since 2023.


Finally, it's not just one weapon, they also have Zuni Rocket, SDB for close air support

US pledges longer-range ‘small-diameter bomb’ for Ukraine

The U.S. announced Friday it will send Ukraine the Boeing-made ground-launched small-diameter bomb, a weapon that can double its strike range.

www.defensenews.com

US to supply Ukraine with 4,000 Zuni 127mm rockets able to engage air

According to the new list of weapons of the U.S. military aid package for Ukraine published on January 6, 2023, the United States will provide 4,000 Zuni,

www.armyrecognition.com

And no, none of what it had in this article is for Aerial target. Which is what you said, again, if you still don't know basic stuff like this, then I don't have anything to talk to you about.

I mean, you can go on and believe they were used for CAP and I can believe it was for CAS, in the end, as I said, it ain't up to us, so we can come back and keep berating each other, that would go no where.

So this is going to be my last post to you, I am not going to reply you.

If you are linking something to prove your point of view, you should owe up to it. I linked you many reference pointing to the reason these F16s are brought in , which is to provide air to air support. CAS is NOT, I repeat, NOT the pressing issue as far as deployment of F16s is concerned.

And then you go into tangent talking about other arms which are completely unrelated to F16s.

Its getting tedious with you, thats for sure.

 

[Nuffle]

Are you for real? JTAC/TACP is an unit (a team specifical), not a single person, and as a Unit it is ALWAYS controlled by an Officer, in USMC case, it's 7502 (Forward Air Controller/Air Officer) which have to be a Marine Aviator and 8002, which don't need to be a flight officer.

As for Air Force, ALO in a TACP team, usually are pilots

TACP: The U.S. Air Force's Tactical Air Control Parties

The United States Air Force (USAF) employs teams of skilled Tactical Air Command and Control specialists, known as Tactical Air Control Parties (TACP), to support conventional Army units and Special Operations Forces. These teams, typically consisting of two or more members, are comprised of...

special-ops.org

View attachment 58517

As I said, I know no one in the Air Force and the last JTAC team I use was from the Marine, but would it kill you just google? I can't do everything for you

It's funny that you brought up an article from 2012 to try to validate your point. As I said, I'm fed up with this conversation. Just showing a few points to show that you are TOTALLY WRONG.

No. No member of the TACP needs to be a pilot. You still haven't proven that. The article you posted as "proof" of your argument states that USUALLY, aviators are classified as ALO.

Do you know the reason for the word "USUALLY"?

Because of the reforms. HISTORICALLY, Air Liaison Officers (ALO) were USAF Aviation officers, typically from the Fighter community, who did a stint in an Air Support Operations Squadron, where they integrated with the TACPs to provide the "air perspective" in the air-ground integration that the Tactical Air Control Group provided.

Sometime in 2010 or 2011, the USAF implemented a new career path for a permanent ALO rank under AFSC 13LX. This change was a step forward for the TACP community. For starters, 13L ALOs were required to go through the same training that their enlisted counterparts attend. Additionally, 13L ALOs would become JTAC qualified as opposed to ALOs being qualified as JFOs.

Regular ALOs (aircraft officers) would still be deployed to ASOS for their knowledge and experience in airpower integration, but their “footprint” in command positions would end up being greatly reduced.

The next major change would come in 2018/2019, when the USAF made a change to the Air Force Officer Classification Directory (AFOCD), renaming 13L ALO to Tactical Air Control Party Officer (TACPO, now AFSC 19ZXB). The TACP Officer, like the 13L ALO, is the Air Force’s expert in the application and integration of Joint Fires and multi-domain effects in support of the Joint Force Commander. TACP Officers are an actual TACP in addition to being a qualified ALO. The ALO was typically a qualified pilot who served a 1-2 year stint in an Air Support Operations Squadron and a TACPO is an officer who graduated from the TACP course, is a qualified TACP-JTAC and ALO, and directly commands, organizes, trains, equips, and employs TACP personnel.

Additionally, as of the last knowledge update in September 2021, it is not necessarily a common career path for USAF-rated pilots or Combat Systems Officers (CSOs) to transition to become ALOs or Tactical Air Control Party Officers (TACPOs) because it was considered career-ending. ALOs and TACPOs are typically part of the Air Force’s Tactical Air Control Party (TACP) community, which is a group of highly trained personnel responsible for coordinating close air support and other air operations with ground forces.

While some pilots and rated CSOs may choose to transition into roles within the TACP community, this is not the typical career progression for most pilots and CSOs in the Air Force. ALOs and TACPOs often come from a variety of backgrounds within the Air Force, including Tactical Air Control Party specialists, Combat Control Team members, and Special Tactics Officers.

You can find out who qualifies to be an ALO here by downloading the file and searching for ALO in the PDF search bar:

https://campus-www-valdosta.gtm.usg.edu/afrotc/career-fields/afocd.pdf

Individuals who tend to become ALOs and TACPOs typically have a strong interest in close air support operations, as well as the ability to work closely with ground forces in dynamic and challenging environments. They undergo specialized training to develop the skills necessary to effectively coordinate air operations in support of ground troops.

As you can see, a lot has changed recently, starting with the time period in which the article you posted as “proof” of your argument fails. There were many structural reasons why forcing senior officers to spend two or three years as an ALO was suboptimal. This 2008 RAND study lists some of the problems ALOs have experienced:

https://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG755.html

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG755.pdf

All of that has changed very recently. The Air Force has made a complete 180-degree turnaround in the importance of ALOs and Enlisted Tactical Air Controllers (ETACS) in just the last few years.

I'm going to repeat the same thing you said:

So this is going to be my last post to you, I am not going to reply you.

 

[j_hungary]

It's funny that you brought up an article from 2012 to try to validate your point. As I said, I'm fed up with this conversation. Just showing a few points to show that you are TOTALLY WRONG.

No. No member of the TACP needs to be a pilot. You still haven't proven that. The article you posted as "proof" of your argument states that USUALLY, aviators are classified as ALO.

Do you know the reason for the word "USUALLY"?

Because of the reforms. HISTORICALLY, Air Liaison Officers (ALO) were USAF Aviation officers, typically from the Fighter community, who did a stint in an Air Support Operations Squadron, where they integrated with the TACPs to provide the "air perspective" in the air-ground integration that the Tactical Air Control Group provided.

First of all, usually mean more than casual, which mean based on probability, there are more probable to be pilot than no. And in fact, most are Aviator. Which implied it was over 50%. Is it all ? No, but is it wrong, again, no because it usually is, which mean not usually an ALO is not a pilot. So if you are going after the sematic, sure, not all are pilot, most are. Because it USUALLY is, and WHEN I WAS IN THE ARMY (1999-2007) that was a requirement

Second most of the air aspect you get is from the Pilot input, the air perspective was not done on the ALO part, the Air perspective was done on the pilot dropping the ordinance, again, I don't know where you are from, and how it work in your country, in NATO country, JTAC was a team that bridge the Ground need(in my perspective as an army officer) and what they can give in the air.

Sometime in 2010 or 2011, the USAF implemented a new career path for a permanent ALO rank under AFSC 13LX. This change was a step forward for the TACP community. For starters, 13L ALOs were required to go through the same training that their enlisted counterparts attend. Additionally, 13L ALOs would become JTAC qualified as opposed to ALOs being qualified as JFOs.

Regular ALOs (aircraft officers) would still be deployed to ASOS for their knowledge and experience in airpower integration, but their “footprint” in command positions would end up being greatly reduced.

The next major change would come in 2018/2019, when the USAF made a change to the Air Force Officer Classification Directory (AFOCD), renaming 13L ALO to Tactical Air Control Party Officer (TACPO, now AFSC 19ZXB). The TACP Officer, like the 13L ALO, is the Air Force’s expert in the application and integration of Joint Fires and multi-domain effects in support of the Joint Force Commander. TACP Officers are an actual TACP in addition to being a qualified ALO. The ALO was typically a qualified pilot who served a 1-2 year stint in an Air Support Operations Squadron and a TACPO is an officer who graduated from the TACP course, is a qualified TACP-JTAC and ALO, and directly commands, organizes, trains, equips, and employs TACP personnel.

Additionally, as of the last knowledge update in September 2021, it is not necessarily a common career path for USAF-rated pilots or Combat Systems Officers (CSOs) to transition to become ALOs or Tactical Air Control Party Officers (TACPOs) because it was considered career-ending. ALOs and TACPOs are typically part of the Air Force’s Tactical Air Control Party (TACP) community, which is a group of highly trained personnel responsible for coordinating close air support and other air operations with ground forces.

While some pilots and rated CSOs may choose to transition into roles within the TACP community, this is not the typical career progression for most pilots and CSOs in the Air Force. ALOs and TACPOs often come from a variety of backgrounds within the Air Force, including Tactical Air Control Party specialists, Combat Control Team members, and Special Tactics Officers.

You can find out who qualifies to be an ALO here by downloading the file and searching for ALO in the PDF search bar:

https://campus-www-valdosta.gtm.usg.edu/afrotc/career-fields/afocd.pdf

Individuals who tend to become ALOs and TACPOs typically have a strong interest in close air support operations, as well as the ability to work closely with ground forces in dynamic and challenging environments. They undergo specialized training to develop the skills necessary to effectively coordinate air operations in support of ground troops.

As you can see, a lot has changed recently, starting with the time period in which the article you posted as “proof” of your argument fails. There were many structural reasons why forcing senior officers to spend two or three years as an ALO was suboptimal. This 2008 RAND study lists some of the problems ALOs have experienced:

https://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG755.html

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monographs/2008/RAND_MG755.pdf

All of that has changed very recently. The Air Force has made a complete 180-degree turnaround in the importance of ALOs and Enlisted Tactical Air Controllers (ETACS) in just the last few years.

I'm going to repeat the same thing you said:

First of all, they didn't alter the path that much, and the tradition pipeline still stands. The change is not to take the flight status off of a TACP ALO, but rather they put those ALO into SPECOP community by having them go thru all USSOCOM training, (parachutist school, JFKSOCOM school and so on). It is not necessary, but this is still an ongoing occurrence for the USAF, again, because usually it was. Just because they now allowed non-aviator into ALO, does not suddenly means majority of those won't be pilot

It's like you are saying a PJ team usually compromise of Medic, and then they reform into specialist rescue (which focus on CSAR) that does not mean a large proportion of a PJ team is now specialist rescue, instead of trauma medic or 68W certified (army MOS for Medic).

Secondly, again, this is a perspective which pilot process without further training, does that mean they can't be trained to non-aviation officer? That sort of answered the question from Ukraine being certified into NATO JTAC, again, standardised training. Because it would mean they can both called and being called by NATO to perform CAS, that's what the certification was. If not, do tell me how Ukraine NATO certification of JTAC is different than any NATO countries? If so, by saying that, you are saying NATO would also not be able to perform CAS. Because that's the standard for both air/ground perspective.

Again, I don't understand why you and the other dude think CAS is a very complicated concept Ukraine has no ability to perform. This is a very basic aviator role in any Airforce.

 

[j_hungary]

Shown you many publications from think tanks, cover stories from well known media houses, yet still in denial? You sound like a spoiled child, hard to please.

Dude, you show one article and basically 1 picture. I don't see how many "publications" from think tank from well-known media house, let work back post by post and see what you show in this thread

Post 2 - No Article shown
Post 4 -No Article shown
Post 7 - No Article shown
Post 16 - Mentioned "All recent report" none show
Post 18 - No Article shown
Post 21 - No Article shown
Post 25 - You talked about "facts" but did not supplied what "Fact" are nor reference it
Post 27 - No Article shown
Post 28 - No Article shown
Post 30 - "Asking to pay attention to media" but No Article shown
Post 47 - Agian asking to "notice" what Ukraine was showing, but No Article shown
Post 49 - Saying I refused to comprehen what Ukrainian was showing, No Article shown
Post 54 - Show an Ukrainian F-16 AA Configuration on display
Post 58 - Show first article by NYT published on May 18 2023
Post 63 - No Article shown
Post 66 - No Article shown, you did use my article to say those aren't for CAS
Post 68 - No Article shown
Post 81 - No Article shown
Post 84- No Article shown

And we are current.

So do tell me how you, in your own word "Shown you many publications from think tanks, cover stories from well known media houses"

I am not going to reply to the rest of the post since it was opinionated, but this is factual, you only show an article from NYT from 2023 (I am not sure how it relevant as we were guessing back then) and a current picture of that F-16 on Air Force Day display.

Awaiting on your reply on this

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Iranis been easily tracking F-35's flying out of Al-Dhafra UAE for years now. They detected and brought down the RQ-170 stealth drone 10 years ago.

According to @Lulldapull every US latest weapons is junk lol and @Lulldapull gives me the source/proofs that Iranians are tracking F35 for years?

And last @Lulldapull F35 has not have EW/ECM and ECCM to degrade and disable Iranian super-SAMs. Lollipop

 

[Taimoor]

Dude, you show one article and basically 1 picture. I don't see how many "publications" from think tank from well-known media house, let work back post by post and see what you show in this thread

Post 2 - No Article shown
Post 4 -No Article shown
Post 7 - No Article shown
Post 16 - Mentioned "All recent report" none show
Post 18 - No Article shown
Post 21 - No Article shown
Post 25 - You talked about "facts" but did not supplied what "Fact" are nor reference it
Post 27 - No Article shown
Post 28 - No Article shown
Post 30 - "Asking to pay attention to media" but No Article shown
Post 47 - Agian asking to "notice" what Ukraine was showing, but No Article shown
Post 49 - Saying I refused to comprehen what Ukrainian was showing, No Article shown
Post 54 - Show an Ukrainian F-16 AA Configuration on display
Post 58 - Show first article by NYT published on May 18 2023
Post 63 - No Article shown
Post 66 - No Article shown, you did use my article to say those aren't for CAS
Post 68 - No Article shown
Post 81 - No Article shown
Post 84- No Article shown

And we are current.

So do tell me how you, in your own word "Shown you many publications from think tanks, cover stories from well known media houses"

I am not going to reply to the rest of the post since it was opinionated, but this is factual, you only show an article from NYT from 2023 (I am not sure how it relevant as we were guessing back then) and a current picture of that F-16 on Air Force Day display.

Awaiting on your reply on this

Post in thread 'F-16 Officially In Ukrainian Service'

Aug 8, 2024

Again, so I guess F-16 in the US don't do CAS as well, since that was already the job for A-10 and F-15 Strike eagle.

What you said does not make sense at all.

You can create a thread about F16s in US and what they are tasked to do. We are discussing Ukraine here, not sure you realised?

I also quote MY OWN experience operating under US Special Force, may I ask how many time have you called CAS and interact with any JTAC unit in your own experience??

Dont give monkies what you are doing or been doing, but clearly you are not putting your reading glasses on and educating...

• Taimoor

Post in thread 'F-16 Officially In Ukrainian Service'

Aug 8, 2024

Now you sounded like Ukraine don't know anything about CAS before getting F-16....

Tell me, how is it different for Ukraine to do CAS with Su-24 or Su-25 than F-16?? So much so they will have to "re-learn" everything......

And how is that going?
Flip it and ask yourself why do they need f16s when they already got other platforms for the CAS job?

That's your perception of what you think they were doing with them, unless you know someone on the Ukrainian high up, you don't know if that was their intention, even I know a few Ukrainian Colonel (one of them is actually a...

• Taimoor

Reuters, Atlantic council, NY times, RAND. Are you paying attention and reading?

In response you posting some random article with one mention of JDAM and you are using that for your argument!

As I said, its becoming tedious with you.

 

[j_hungary]

Post in thread 'F-16 Officially In Ukrainian Service'

Aug 8, 2024

Again, so I guess F-16 in the US don't do CAS as well, since that was already the job for A-10 and F-15 Strike eagle.

What you said does not make sense at all.

You can create a thread about F16s in US and what they are tasked to do. We are discussing Ukraine here, not sure you realised?

I also quote MY OWN experience operating under US Special Force, may I ask how many time have you called CAS and interact with any JTAC unit in your own experience??

Dont give monkies what you are doing or been doing, but clearly you are not putting your reading glasses on and educating...

• Taimoor

Post in thread 'F-16 Officially In Ukrainian Service'

Aug 8, 2024

Now you sounded like Ukraine don't know anything about CAS before getting F-16....

Tell me, how is it different for Ukraine to do CAS with Su-24 or Su-25 than F-16?? So much so they will have to "re-learn" everything......

And how is that going?
Flip it and ask yourself why do they need f16s when they already got other platforms for the CAS job?

That's your perception of what you think they were doing with them, unless you know someone on the Ukrainian high up, you don't know if that was their intention, even I know a few Ukrainian Colonel (one of them is actually a...

• Taimoor

Reuters, Atlantic council, NY times, RAND. Are you paying attention and reading?

In response you posting some random article with one mention of JDAM and you are using that for your argument!

As I said, its becoming tedious with you.

Where are the Atlantic council, RAND article?

Quote me the EXACT link to the article

like this

Www.defensepk.com

On the other hand, both reuter and NYT article was published in 2023, a long time before Ukraine receiving their F-16, I seriously doubt the accuracy of those article other than a wish-list type article.

As said before Ukraine situation is a lot different in July 2024 than Dec 2023 or Nov 2023.