First specs of Turkish AC project

[LegionnairE]

Where else is Turkey gonna use it ?

A better question is, why do we spend money on a fuel guzzling COGAG powered, BILLION dollar ship that's going to require hundreds of sailors to operate, carrying 30-40 Hürjets at best?

Where we could just buy a couple of squadrons of F-15E or EX and be able to hit anywhere in mediterranean for half the price?

There's never going to be a naval version of Kaan and there are no carrier capable jets in the world that we can buy.


Alternatively, we could buy 10 A350ies and convert them to tanker planes for the same price and none of the headache. And we'd not be limited to naval planes which we have no experience with.

 

[RedBeard]

While there's no hard limit to how far a carrier can go, provided that logistics support is sufficient, I do believe the descision to employ COGAG propulsion is a sign that the ship is more leaning toward short/medium range littoral deployment.

Compared to heavy fuel steam turbine found on American and Chinese conventional carriers, as well as USSR/Russian aircraft cruisers, COGAG powerplant are less space and fuel efficient, and are less resistant to damage, since a smaller number of larger turbine compartments provide less redundancy. What COGAG do win in is in power responsiveness and startup time, where a carrier can cold start in a matter of hours instead of days, and while underway can rapidly change power output in response to complicated underwater geography, incoming fire, or in ASW conditions, which is why COGAG is more often found on surface combatants and amphibious assault vessels like Burke DDG and the Wasp LHD

Would never imagine that AC’s need coldstart too. Thanks

Where else is Turkey gonna use it ?

Atlantic, Indian and Southern ocean

 

[LegionnairE]

Would never imagine that AC’s need coldstart too. Thanks

Atlantic, Indian and Southern ocean

1. Diesel generators and electric propulsion accomplishes the same thing

2. What objectives does Turkey have in Atlantic or Indian oceans?

Colonialism race ended 110 years ago. We're a bit late to the party.

 

[hyperman]

What's the use of this AC in the Mediterranean Sea where everything is close by?

Your scope is too small, Turkey plans on functioning as a blue water navy outside the Mediterranean if need be. Don't think in terms of current capabilities, but in terms of acquiring capabilities for future foreign policy objectives.

What if Turkey wants to operate deeper into the Mediterranean outside of the eastern medeterranians, what if it wants to operate off the coast of Somalia in east Africa, the red sea, Indian ocean, for whatever foreign policy objectives.

 

[LegionnairE]

operate off the coast of Somalia in east Africa, the red sea, Indian ocean, for whatever foreign policy objectives.

What interests does Turkey have there that justifies billions of dollars of investment to defend?

 

[hyperman]

What interests does Turkey have there that justifies billions of dollars of investment to defend?

Turkish strategists and Naval experts are planning for the world of the 2030s, perhaps they are privy to things you are not? There is a race for Africa going on, that many people haven't noticed. There is also the issue of sea choke points and other matters. Turkey's interests and capabilities are very different now and in the future compared to what they were decades prior.

 

[LegionnairE]

Turkish strategists and Naval experts are planning for the world of the 2030s, perhaps they are privy to things you are not? There is a race for Africa going on, that many people haven't noticed. There is also the issue of sea choke points and other matters. Turkey's interests and capabilities are very different now and in the future compared to what they were decades prior.

"They know something that we don't"


amazing response that can defend every stupid decision.

 

[hyperman]

"They know something that we don't"


amazing response that can defend every stupid decision.

In any decision that is made collectively via the state apparatus one has to assume they know things that the random person off the street doesn't.

How do you think these decisions are made exactly in state buerocracies? There is input from think tanks with analysts, studying geopolitical trajectories, there is input from intelligence agencies(both civilians and military) analyzing foreign trends, then basic parameters for what tools and capabilities that are needed to pursue interests are drawn up. Then there is an assessment of what platforms are needed to actualize the capabilities, it goes through review through the naval chain of command, eventually the matter ends up on the desk of the chief of general staff and the Minister of Defense, which then have consultations with the political leadership which then signs off on the matter. It then goes through further analysis with industry leadership and finance ministries consultations.

So whats more likely? that everyone in that entire chain are fools, and that you with no qualifications have figured out something that no one else in the chain has thought of?

Why is South Korea pursuing 3 aircraft carriers? They are a small peninsula off the coast of China and neighboring Japan, just a stone's throw away, why do they need aircraft carriers? maybe its planners and analysts have determined something that isn't obvious to the random person on the street. Why is Brazil building aircraft carriers? Are they planning to defend themselves against Argentina? Why is Italy building/planning 4 carriers/Amphibious assault ships? Their planners would know better than the average person.

 

[LegionnairE]

In any decision that is made collectively via the state apparatus one has to assume they know things that the random shmuck of the street doesn't.

Yes yes yes, big brains in the state, they know things, That's why we have 1.000 Altay tanks in service and F35Bs on the flight deck of TCG Anadolu.

Race for Africa was 150 years ago, in the age of sail, look at the map sometime, didn't even read the rest of your garbage post

 

[GatlingGun]

A better question is, why do we spend money on a fuel guzzling COGAG powered

INS Vikrant (2013) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I can wish our next carrier to be straight forward EMALS CATOBAR with Nuclear propulsion. We will be infusing massive CAPEX in next 10 years. Maybe tie up with French PANG development.

 

[hyperman]

That's why we have 1.000 Altay tanks in service

There was a German embargo due to the Turkish intervention against the PKK in Syria, not sure if you are familiar, and there was no other engine available until the South Korean powerpack was ready for their own K2 Tank. The F-35B wasn't initially planned and no formal order was even made, they had discussed the option b/c of the slope already built into the Spanish design, but there was no plan for F-35s in the original tender.

Race for Africa was 150 years ago

There is a current scramble for Africa ongoing, Russia, EU/US, China, UAE, Turkey. There is a reason there have been so many trips to Africa by the Turkish president for a reason.

Turkey's opening to Africa on JSTOR

Mehmet Özkan, Birol Akgün, Turkey's opening to Africa, The Journal of Modern African Studies, Vol. 48, No. 4 (DECEMBER 2010), pp. 525-546

www.jstor.org

The Rise of Turkey in Africa | Al Jazeera Centre for Studies

The face and the fate of African continent in the 21st century is changing fast and its network of foreign relations is becoming more complex as new actors are interacting with African countries.

studies.aljazeera.net

Turkey in Africa: A New Emerging Power?

This book offers a comprehensive and multi-disciplinary analysis of Turkey-Africa relations. Bringing together renowned authors to discuss various dimensions of Turkey’s African engagement while casting a critical analysis on the sustainability of Turkey-Africa relations, this book draws upon...

www.routledge.com

Turkey is making a big diplomatic and corporate push into Africa

It is sending engineers and soap operas, but also guns and soldiers

www.economist.com

Turkey and the new scramble for Africa: Ottoman designs or unfounded fears? | Brookings

Turkey has emerged as an important, but confusing, actor in the greater Middle East and beyond. Its policies have oscillated as its role has expanded, and it now plays an important role in the Horn of Africa as well as with its neighbors.

www.brookings.edu

Why African militaries now want to talk Turkey | Aviation Week Network

Africa has traditionally been a continent whose armed forces bought their weaponry from superpowers or former colonial nations. Now, there is a new kid on the block.

www.timesaerospace.aero

Turkish Influence in Sub-Saharan Africa

Trade volume has soared and projects like the development of Sudan’s Suakin Port have drawn notice, but Ankara faces economic headwinds in its bid to keep the momentum going.

www.washingtoninstitute.org

didn't even read the rest of your garbage post

Please don't be rude and insulting. I've been civil with you, you should be civil with others, even if you disagree with them.

 

[LegionnairE]

View attachment 19665

INS Vikrant (2013) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I can wish our next carrier to be straight forward EMALS CATOBAR with Nuclear propulsion. We will be infusing massive CAPEX in next 10 years. Maybe tie up with French PANG development.

it's pretty shameful if you can make nuclear weapons but not a simple pressurized water reactor.

But both India and Turkey's biggest problem is that the carrier based fighter options are so shitty.

 

[LegionnairE]

Please don't be rude and insulting. I've been civil with you,

random shmuck of the street doesn't.

You're pathetic

 

[hyperman]

You're pathetic

Random shmuck is a figure of speech, its like Joe Shmoe/ random person/ random mofo, its not necessarily literal. it wasn't even directed towards you necessarily. If its caused you offense, no problem, i'll edit it to "random person".

 

[Harbyharb]

Would never imagine that AC’s need coldstart too. Thanks

Atlantic, Indian and Southern ocean

By cold start, I mean, starting the ship from inactivity.

In case you don't know, heavy oil have very high viscosity at room temperature and is fairly innert, almost inflammable, which means for steam boilers to reach proper temperature and pressure, the fuel would need to heated, circulated, and injected in a specific pace before ignition can happen.

A typical heavy oil steam turbine carrier could take up to 14 days to fuelled and started if it's completely "cold", which is why in some cases in temporary port stops, a conventional carrier could remain "hot" by connecting to port support equipment that will circulate the fuel keep the fuel heated, so the carrier could "hot start".