Gaza-Israel Conflict | 2023-2024

This is the topmost headline on NY Times right now--in an election year too!


Thousands of protesters flooded streets in cities across Israel on Sunday night to demand that the government immediately accept a deal for the release of hostages held in Gaza. The demonstrations, some of the largest in the country in months, came after the Israeli military announced it had recovered the bodies of six hostages who been recently killed in Gaza.

In Tel Aviv, hostage families and a crowd of supporters carried six prop coffins in a march through the city, blocked its main highway and swarmed in front of the Israeli military headquarters. In Jerusalem, the Israeli police used water cannons to spray skunk water, a noxious crowd control weapon, and forcefully removed people who rallied in front of the city’s main entrance.

Protesters gathered in smaller cities, too, including in Haifa and Beer Sheva, Israeli media outlets reported. In Rehovot, in central Israel, people blocked traffic and chanted, “We want them back living, not in coffins!”

The families of many hostages have long accused the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, of sabotaging efforts for a deal for his own political gain. They have taken increasingly aggressive steps to try to pressure him into action, including protesting in front of his Jerusalem home and storming a Parliament meeting.

The families’ frustration appeared to reach a boiling point on Sunday after the Israeli military said that the bodies of six hostages had been recovered. The Israeli health ministry said they had been shot at close range sometime between Thursday and Friday morning.

Their blood was on the hands of the Israeli government, said the Hostages and Missing Families Forum, a group that represents some of the relatives, and it called on the public to “bring the nation to a halt.”

The message was echoed by Israel’s largest labor union, which declared a strike beginning Monday morning, and by Yair Lapid, the Israeli opposition leader.

The Families Forum said hundreds of thousands of people were protesting around the country on Sunday evening, but it was not possible to verify the figure. The Israeli police, which said that five people had been arrested during the protests in Jerusalem, declined to provide any estimates of crowd sizes.
 
He's a typical Arab sellout.

The holy lands needs to be liberated from them, they are no longer worthy.
Every nation state has their angle here with Gaza

They are trying to project blame onto the other
 
I agree with the below
The protests are being misunderstood



So what?
There is anarchy in Israel. At the least, it is a distraction. Pretty sure after all the hostages are returned, the same protestors would be quite okay with the IDF going into Gaza to start killing again. Everyone knows that.
Until that time comes, why not have the Israeli leadership distracted? Or maybe even a coup which topples Netanyahu. I believe his toppling will go long ways in defusing this conflict for several more years.
 
Topmost headline on Times of Israel.
I don't think the psychological and economic impacts of such protests are small. Why would any foreign investor want to invest there compared with so many other global options??

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So what?
There is anarchy in Israel. At the least, it is a distraction. Pretty sure after all the hostages are returned, the same protestors would be quite okay with the IDF going into Gaza to start killing again. Everyone knows that.
Until that time comes, why not have the Israeli leadership distracted? Or maybe even a coup which topples Netanyahu. I believe his toppling will go long ways in defusing this conflict for several more years.


A distraction doesn't tremendously help anyone.

Which is important to understand

I think there can be no room for allowing overly generous or hopeful thinking at this stage, people have uttey forgotten what something tangible looks like

As you say it changes nothing about the direction of things


I don't know if nethanyahu going helps anything for sure, who can say, depends who comes in after?

To me this is just watch and see... If parts of the military establishment start diverging, more parts of society refuse to cooperate ok that's something

Intelligence chief's and generals have made some strong remarks
 
Topmost headline on Times of Israel.
I don't think the psychological and economic impacts of such protests are small. Why would any foreign investor want to invest there compared with so many other global options??

View attachment 62426
That's baked into this, that economic activity will take a hit

This military action is seen in a sort of holy, existential religious and historical context
Plus ofcourse the us will write a cheque
 
A distraction doesn't tremendously help anyone.
Which is important to understand
I think there can be no room for allowing overly generous or hopeful thinking at this stage, people have uttey forgotten what something tangible looks like
As you say it changes nothing about the direction of things

Absolutely in disagreement.
This is as much a conflict on the ground as it is an economic and psychological war. And the longer this lasts, the more Israel loses. And given no one else--not even Iran or Hezbollah--are willing to go the route of a regional war, not much choices left but to continue the ongoing War of Attrition. And I believe Israel is losing that.

And before anyone bashes me: I am nothing but a remote observer of the conflict. Whatever I say in this small forum wouldn't move the needle one bit. The conflict is a manifestation of a far far larger geopolitical events and forces.
 
Absolutely in disagreement.
This is as much a conflict on the ground as it is an economic and psychological war. And the longer this lasts, the more Israel loses. And given no one else--not even Iran or Hezbollah--are willing to go the route of a regional war, not much choices left but to continue the ongoing War of Attrition. And I believe Israel is losing that.

And before anyone bashes me: I am nothing but a remote observer of the conflict. Whatever I say in this small forum wouldn't move the needle one bit. The conflict is a manifestation of a far far larger geopolitical events and forces.


Ok, that's fair, I don't disagree, I am still in watch and wait mode for now


As we mentioned, some idiosyncratic factor is the worry, nothing seems off the table
 
That's baked into this, that economic activity will take a hit
This military action is seen in a sort of holy, existential religious and historical context
Plus ofcourse the us will write a cheque

Israel's prosperity is not even mostly because of the American $$ given as direct aid. Israel is a Western nation, with many educated and entrepreneur people. They brought knowledge and expertise from Europe. Up until barely two years ago, Israel's trajectory was really good as a 'startup nation'. During Covid, Israeli science helped the world. But Netanyahu's 'judicial reforms' started to break apart the Israeli society.

The flight of smart people was happening before October 7, 2023. Now it has accelerated. There are plenty of places for the investors to invest in--I hear, even Israeli investors are now investing abroad. And there are plenty of places the smart, educated, and 'secular' Israelis would be able to go to--and some numbers saying already 500,000 have left (I don't know if that included those who left during the Judicial Reforms movement).

So the American bankrolling won't help enough. That would be just band-aid. Israel needs stability and investor confidence and a productive brain presence. A War of Attrition denies all that.
 
Israel's prosperity is not even mostly because of the American $$ given as direct aid. Israel is a Western nation, with many educated and entrepreneur people. They brought knowledge and expertise from Europe. Up until barely two years ago, Israel's trajectory was really good as a 'startup nation'. During Covid, Israeli science helped the world. But Netanyahu's 'judicial reforms' started to break apart the Israeli society.

The flight of smart people was happening before October 7, 2023. Now it has accelerated. There are plenty of places for the investors to invest in--I hear, even Israeli investors are now investing abroad. And there are plenty of places the smart, educated, and 'secular' Israelis would be able to go to--and some numbers saying already 500,000 have left (I don't know if that included those who left during the Judicial Reforms movement).

So the American bankrolling won't help enough. That would be just band-aid. Israel needs stability and investor confidence and a productive brain presence. A War of Attrition denies all that.


The start up nation is a smoke screen, soft power progoganda

In reality the technology transfer and cooperation is downstream from security arrangements , you can look this up

Countries are more robust than you are making out, a few years of negative economic activity is just that, a downturn

If the region settles in their favour, they will bounce back stronger than ever, turkey and gulfies first to do business

As I said before Israel will not allow a long term war of attrition and I don't think Iran wants one, you need years and years for what you are thinking

Who will do the fighting?
 

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