In the age of drones, towed guns is probably obsolete in modern warfare


China's Heavy Synthetic Brigade.

The heavy synthesized brigade is dominated by tracked heavy equipment, including 112 Type 99A main battle tanks, 120 Type 04A infantry fighting vehicles, 18 Type 05A 155mm self-propelled howitzers, 9 122mm modular rockets, 9 Red Arrow-10 anti-tank missile launchers, and so on.

One such brigade could destroy the entire Indian Army. China has 82 synthetic brigades.



Our doctrine is different from the PLA. 105mm is primarily deployed to suppress advancing infantry and to provide quick fire support to mountain troops, it is very light and can be lifted by the exisiting Mi-17V5 and Dhruv helicopters of the Indian aviation forces. These guns can be disassembled in pieces and transported in secrecy to locations without letting the enemy know about it. Towed guns like 105mm is not obsolete as you guys claim. US army, Italian army, British army, Korean army all still use 105mm in various roles. These guns have a good history of raining punishing fire on Pakistan Army during ceasefire violations.

The largest artillery on earth is the artillery of the Chinese Army. The second largest is the Artificial Rainfall Department of the Chinese Meteorological Administration, which has more than 7,000 artillery pieces and more than 8,000 rockets.
 
China's Heavy Synthetic Brigade.

The heavy synthesized brigade is dominated by tracked heavy equipment, including 112 Type 99A main battle tanks, 120 Type 04A infantry fighting vehicles, 18 Type 05A 155mm self-propelled howitzers, 9 122mm modular rockets, 9 Red Arrow-10 anti-tank missile launchers, and so on.

One such brigade could destroy the entire Indian Army. China has 82 synthetic brigades.





The largest artillery on earth is the artillery of the Chinese Army. The second largest is the Artificial Rainfall Department of the Chinese Meteorological Administration, which has more than 7,000 artillery pieces and more than 8,000 rockets.
The backbone of the PLA's ground forces consists of its mechanized formations, particularly heavy CABs. However, due to geographical constraints, these heavy CABs can only be effectively deployed in areas such as the Depsang Plains, the North Sikkim Plateau, and the Chushul. Consequently, the PLA has had to form mountain formations that lack heavy weaponry and rely on 122mm howitzers for artillery support. The limited road networks to these conflict areas can be targeted and blocked at critical points like bridges, passes, and loose slopes using missile attacks and PGMs. This strategy can significantly hamper the PLA's mobility. In contrast, Indian forces can protect their assets through tunneling and localized deployment. Unlike the PLA, which has no localized combat units apart from border guard formations, India can maintain a persistent ground presence. Indian forces are capable of launching limited-scale counter-offensives, advancing up to 10 kilometers in depth to gain a strategic advantage. India's short lines of communication provide a significant logistical edge, while the headquarters of the PLA's WTC are located in Chengdu, along with central stores and reserve equipment. India can deploy scout units and the SFF behind enemy lines to disrupt logistics, thereby cutting off frontline PLA troops from their supplies. The PLA's critical supply route, the G219 highway, runs close to the Indian border at its nearest point, providing opportunities for India to interdict PLA convoys and supplies, effectively severing the connection between the Xinjiang Military Command and the Tibet Military District. Although India is well-prepared for a land battle, sustaining troops with ammunition and logistics is crucial to avoid a potential retreat.
Many claims that the PLAN can send a fleet to the Indian Ocean and attack India are often exaggerated. The PLAN has to maintain its Northern and Eastern Fleets to deter the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force, the Korean Navy, and the US Navy's 7th Fleet in Okinawa. The Eastern Fleet also plays a crucial role in the potential invasion of Taiwan, leaving no room to spare ships for other operations. The PLAN's Southern Fleet, which has some expeditionary capability, is the same size as the Indian Navy and is primarily focused on enforcing China's claims in the South China Sea, facing opposition from Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and possibly the US, Australia, and NATO forces entering through the Malacca and Sunda Straits. Given these commitments, only about 30% of the PLAN's Southern Fleet can be spared for expeditionary missions. This force might consist of approximately 1,000 marines, 2 LPDs, a few LSTs, possibly a carrier, and 4-5 destroyers and frigates. This is their peak capability, which is not sustainable over the long term. Their first obstacle would be the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, where India has robust naval anti-shipping units and an air force base at Car Nicobar capable of launching Sukhois. This defensive belt would inflict significant losses on the PLAN. Additionally, India has a SOSUS chain in the area to detect PLAN submarines and deploy P-8I aircraft for anti-submarine operations. The Indian Army has one amphibious brigade stationed in the Andamans. If necessary, the entire 54th Infantry Division can be deployed to defend the islands. This sizable force would be more than capable of countering not just 1,000 PLA marines but even an entire brigade.
 
Our doctrine is different from the PLA. 105mm is primarily deployed to suppress advancing infantry and to provide quick fire support to mountain troops, it is very light and can be lifted by the exisiting Mi-17V5 and Dhruv helicopters of the Indian aviation forces. These guns can be disassembled in pieces and transported in secrecy to locations without letting the enemy know about it. Towed guns like 105mm is not obsolete as you guys claim. US army, Italian army, British army, Korean army all still use 105mm in various roles. These guns have a good history of raining punishing fire on Pakistan Army during ceasefire violations.
Indian artillery maybe small Infront of China but they have huge and most deadly experience of fighting in high altitude like Kargil war where India used 5 lacs plus artillery shells and boforse guns were hitting enemy positions on top with pin point accuracy.... China army is good at showing video drills but they lack real battle experience....
 
The backbone of the PLA's ground forces consists of its mechanized formations, particularly heavy CABs. However, due to geographical constraints, these heavy CABs can only be effectively deployed in areas such as the Depsang Plains, the North Sikkim Plateau, and the Chushul. Consequently, the PLA has had to form mountain formations that lack heavy weaponry and rely on 122mm howitzers for artillery support. The limited road networks to these conflict areas can be targeted and blocked at critical points like bridges, passes, and loose slopes using missile attacks and PGMs. This strategy can significantly hamper the PLA's mobility. In contrast, Indian forces can protect their assets through tunneling and localized deployment. Unlike the PLA, which has no localized combat units apart from border guard formations, India can maintain a persistent ground presence. Indian forces are capable of launching limited-scale counter-offensives, advancing up to 10 kilometers in depth to gain a strategic advantage. India's short lines of communication provide a significant logistical edge, while the headquarters of the PLA's WTC are located in Chengdu, along with central stores and reserve equipment. India can deploy scout units and the SFF behind enemy lines to disrupt logistics, thereby cutting off frontline PLA troops from their supplies. The PLA's critical supply route, the G219 highway, runs close to the Indian border at its nearest point, providing opportunities for India to interdict PLA convoys and supplies, effectively severing the connection between the Xinjiang Military Command and the Tibet Military District. Although India is well-prepared for a land battle, sustaining troops with ammunition and logistics is crucial to avoid a potential retreat.
Many claims that the PLAN can send a fleet to the Indian Ocean and attack India are often exaggerated. The PLAN has to maintain its Northern and Eastern Fleets to deter the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force, the Korean Navy, and the US Navy's 7th Fleet in Okinawa. The Eastern Fleet also plays a crucial role in the potential invasion of Taiwan, leaving no room to spare ships for other operations. The PLAN's Southern Fleet, which has some expeditionary capability, is the same size as the Indian Navy and is primarily focused on enforcing China's claims in the South China Sea, facing opposition from Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, and possibly the US, Australia, and NATO forces entering through the Malacca and Sunda Straits. Given these commitments, only about 30% of the PLAN's Southern Fleet can be spared for expeditionary missions. This force might consist of approximately 1,000 marines, 2 LPDs, a few LSTs, possibly a carrier, and 4-5 destroyers and frigates. This is their peak capability, which is not sustainable over the long term. Their first obstacle would be the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, where India has robust naval anti-shipping units and an air force base at Car Nicobar capable of launching Sukhois. This defensive belt would inflict significant losses on the PLAN. Additionally, India has a SOSUS chain in the area to detect PLAN submarines and deploy P-8I aircraft for anti-submarine operations. The Indian Army has one amphibious brigade stationed in the Andamans. If necessary, the entire 54th Infantry Division can be deployed to defend the islands. This sizable force would be more than capable of countering not just 1,000 PLA marines but even an entire brigade.
And there is our rocket artillery with Brahmos and Pralay to wreck havoc on PLA....
 
Ukraine Russia war has proved that they are still relevant. Drones are also good but Artillery is still much needed. Towed should have wheels attach and use a jeep to keep changing positions after few fires
 
"In the age of buckshots drones are ineffective."

Towed guns are very effective killing machines. Drones don't always work the way people want it to. It's only a matter of time before people figure out how to deal with drones in simple and effective ways.
 
Your BRAHMOUSE will be the easy target for PLA SAMs and PLAAF AAMs
Calling it BRAHMOUSE again and again in every post won't stop BRAHMOS from wrecking havoc on enemy....

At lease use proper language for each weapon on defense forum where new members also join to learn something... your same and same type of jokes to score cheap likes is not really funny....
 
Calling it BRAHMOUSE again and again in every post won't stop BRAHMOS from wrecking havoc on enemy....

At lease use proper language for each weapon on defense forum where new members also join to learn something... your same and same type of jokes to score cheap likes is not really funny....
The mouse spread the plague and decimated the population in Europe. He means it will do the same to his countrymen. You have been here a long time. Learn to troll.
 
The mouse spread the plague and decimated the population in Europe. He means it will do the same to his countrymen. You have been here a long time. Learn to troll.
Agreed bro.... and you have shown that how dangerous a mouse can be....
 
???
What do you mean “probably”? Towed guns are absolutely obsolete and we’ve known that since the 1960s when the USSR designed the 2S1 and we the M109. Any force that still use towed guns either have special needs (helicopter airborne in the case of M777) or are limited to using old stockpiles by circumstances (Russia and Ukraine). Any military that makes and or procures towed guns post 2000s are either poor or sheer dumb schmucks.

Weak against drones and counter battery are but a very very very small facet about the limitations of towed guns. Off-roads mobility, inefficacy in rapid response, CBRN, sustained RoF, munition capacity, etc etc.

Towed are still needed in mountainous terrain especially in places like LoC.
 
Towed are still needed in mountainous terrain especially in places like LoC.
Nope. If the terrain can support a Kamaz carrying munition and crew while towing an FH70, it can support a 16-ton Caesar. The latter has a shorter overall length, less restraint on turning circle radius, and much better off-road mobility.
 
Drones pose a threat to both towed and mobile artillery because they are cheap and therefore more likely to be available to your adversary to use, in order to target the positions the artillery is at. The threat is no different to that posed by attack helicopters or fighter aircraft, it's just more likely to occur and due to their small size, harder to detect.

That doesn't make artillery obsolete, it just means anti drone tactics and equipment will need to be wider spread.

It's definitely more dangerous to be a gunner than it used to be.
 
Calling it BRAHMOUSE again and again in every post won't stop BRAHMOS from wrecking havoc on enemy....

At lease use proper language for each weapon on defense forum where new members also join to learn something... your same and same type of jokes to score cheap likes is not really funny....
It has a big RCS and IR signature over Himalayan mountains at high altitudes you jester
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Pakistan Defence Latest

Latest Posts

Back
Top