Indian Light Tank Zorawar Breaks Cover

[Lulldapull]

A tank carrying drones? What kind of drones and what size? What is the payload of these drones? Can a drone taking off from a Zorawar tank bomb a target? Since it’s a light tank, carrying bigger drones might make it heavy. However, it's a brilliant concept. India should develop a heavy tank with a large drone to bomb targets.

Indians are like a generation behind Iran on drone technology. I’m talking 25 years here. And then to make it real, they are more than likely another generation behind on drone tactics/ operations and doctrine…..

It’ll be a steep learning curve, but I know India has money now and substantial talent, so they’ll cut down on the time.

 

[Lulldapull]

Tanks have always been vulnerable, just because something is vulnerable doesn't mean it's obsolete otherwise Infantry would have been the first to go obsolete, it's the most vulnerable target on the battlefield that can be taken out by a 2 dollar bullet, yet it's still there on the battlefield


Tanks were obsolete from the moment they were conceived yet they are still here.
Just ask yourself this question before declaring tanks obsolete, If not a tank then what else, what are you going to replace it with, what other platform can perform it's role better.
Here's a good video on the topic

They are not the first one to do so, ATGM's did that first but tanks are still here aren't they


By C-UAS systems like Anti Drone Jammers and Airburst Ammo, drones aren't some sort of holy grail you are making it to be.


I will ask you the same question Again what are you going to replace it with, what other platform can perform it's role better.
Infantry is the most vulnerable thing on the battlefield since the invention of warfare yet it has not been replaced even now do you know why, because we are yet to find its replacement

Those ATGM are effective against IFV, APC too but that does not mean these platform have become obsolete too.
Tanks just like IFVs and APCs have a certain role at the battlefield unless you can fill that role with something better those platforms are here to stay.


So that they can be decimated by a 12 gauge

According to some news portals Zorawar is supposed to have a anti drone CUAS in it's final configuration.
A mobile Anti Drone tracked Vehicle is seems to be the next addition to Armoured Columns

Soft kill CUAS

If I am not wrong there are plans to have a integrated CUAS on our upcoming FMBT,
And according to Alpha Defence there are plans to put a similar CUAS on the next variant of Zorawar


There are multiple types of CUAS system.
what you are describing can protect the drones from radio interference based CUAS but against other CUAS systems like microwave, etc

I would suggest the opposite.
A 30mm programmable Airburst round will be the best method to take down "Cheap Drones"

Shotgun, you are describing a 12 gauge shotgun


Those drones you are mentioning are neither cheap nor small (they have an antenna the size of a TV Dish) , they will be shot down by a AD system before even reaching the battlefield

No, A bigger but incompetent army got beaten black and blue by a smaller and nimble adversary.



Yet they are still here on the battlefield and will stay here for the foreseeable future
They will evolve to counter this new threat just like they always have


Finally, someone gets it.
Tanks are still here for a reason.
Drones will not make tanks obsolete they will just force it evolve


Is it the rumoured 1000hp Indigenous Engine


Sadly Not true, The gun is 100% Belgian, The optics is supplied by french Safran for the The FCS and BMS we don't know

Not to deviate from the main topic of the thread but INSAS was a production failure and not a devlopment failure

Main gun is Belgian, We don't have any info about the See through Armour Tech, For all we know it can very well be sourced from China.
Smoke grenades are extremely basic items, them being Indigenous is not that relevant TBH.

Bro I knew a hillbilly a while ago and he’d you know come back from da Iraq war. His M-1 Abrams was hit by an RPG and it seriously hurt his brain. He told me after that incident that he had permanent brain damage.

He couldn’t think straight, couldn’t function properly couldn’t communicate adequately…….his life was over bro.

Why I’m sayin this is those Israeli tankers in Gaza today who gettin hit by those Hamas RPGs left n right……most of them are done bro!

Sittin in a tin can with a huge explosion rattling you, is basically death sentence.

Btw, that guy committed suicide many years ago due to the damage that RPG hit caused to his brain.

Many don’t understand or realize just how fragile we are.

 

[vsdoc]

Yup, my hope is this is already being done for the combined war reforms. Attach unit like this at brigade level first, then even battalion level at later stage.

Even so, hoping the Kalyani one is being built in Poona. We Maharashtrians have had a ton of big ticket industrial projects being siphoned off to Gujarat. The country is not just one state.

 

[MirageBlue]

ALL those Chinese and Pakistani members mocking Light tank should get that its just one of the two prototypes of the tender for light tank contest by Indian army

L&T has fielded Zorawar while Bharat Forge /Kalyani Light tank hasnt of yet broken the cover to media yet

then both will be tested in highest and most toughest himlayan terrain in all kinds of weather after that they will be upgraded if there will be any need for it and then the final product

besides we have all the time and moeny to even install best systems from Europe and Israel or USA or russia if the need arises if you can do that do it whose stopping you

I have not heard anything of that kind, about the Bharat Forge light tank being in development. Would appreciate some source to that claim.

 

[Fifa124]

I have not heard anything of that kind, about the Bharat Forge light tank being in development. Would appreciate some source to that claim.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790640815427272736

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582672998762708992

 

[MirageBlue]

Even so, hoping the Kalyani one is being built in Poona. We Maharashtrians have had a ton of big ticket industrial projects being siphoned off to Gujarat. The country is not just one state.

What rubbish! If L&T was chosen, it was due to their dealings with DRDO and the fact that they were already kind of designing a light tank when the requirement from the Indian Army came up.

The partnership was because L&T had already shown, through their 100 K9 Vajra SP artillery guns that they had the manufacturing and engineering capability to produce armoured vehicles which the IA was happy with.

Those K9 Vajras were built at Hazira, Gujarat, where L&T has had a large engineering center for ages! It has nothing to do with politics of moving projects to Gujarat as a favored state. It naturally made sense for the Zorawar prototype to be built at the same facility where proving grounds had already been established to test the K9 Vajras after they were produced.

 

[MirageBlue]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1790640815427272736

https://twitter.com/x/status/1582672998762708992

The question is - is this in development or just a concept that was being shown? There's a big difference between the two. Reason being I have not seen Bharat Forge statements on the status of that light tank program.

 

[Fifa124]

The question is - is this in development or just a concept that was being shown? There's a big difference between the two. Reason being I have not seen Bharat Forge statements on the status of that light tank program.

‘Developing under 25 tonnes light tank for Army’ - Times of India

Bharat Forge is developing a light tank under 25 tonnes for the Indian Army's future requirements. The company is also focusing on defence exports and reducing dependence on imported parts by 2030. Technology and innovation play a crucial role in developing new weapons, with Bharat Forge having...

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[vkdindian]

The manufacturing or development units can be based in any part of the country. The employees are likely to be from across the entire country. No need to create it into a competition between Poona, Bombay, Calcutta or Madras.

Let’s keep it as an Indian effort and not turn it into a contest of regional supremacy.

 

[Harbyharb]

There is a specific need for it in high altitude area India has in Himalayas....basically regular tanks have trouble being maneuvered to degree needed....as there are lot of chokepoints that arise in this area....it diminishes each power level in each sim done.

With design driver like that, then you package what you can in the turret to frontload everything as far as possible when SHTF dynamic in these areas...this builds up the deterrence level to its degree to begin with. i.e what does the cockrell turret bring to the game in scenarios 1 to 9 before we get to the next tier of conflict.

I perfectly understand the strict limitations that India faces in the unforgiving Himalayas, not only does high altitude degrade motor performance, but it also puts much higher mechanical strain by demanding higher engine temp and RPM, thus requiring more frequent maintenance and parts replacement. Thus, building a light tank that sacrifices certain capabilities for higher availability is a completely legitimate design decision.

Yet at the end of the day, so long as Zorawar is considered a tank both by designation and by its place in the Indian army unit template, it will need to do the job of a tank as an armoured spearhead, first in line against enemy direct-fire opposition, and that is something that Zorawar, with its STANAG 4569 IV protection on the hull and V on the turret protecting against at most 14.5 HMG and 25mm APDS respectively, doesn't seem to be able to do.

It's quite curious to see how both India and China reacted to the tank encounter, India producing the lightweight Zorawar, and China employing a hybrid powerplant to enable ~40ton platforms.

 

[vsdoc]

It's quite curious to see how both India and China reacted to the tank encounter, India producing the lightweight Zorawar, and China employing a hybrid powerplant to enable ~40ton platforms.

Its not just how they fight, but how they get there, before they (25 vs 40) engage. I've spent 25 years riding motorcycles in that region. Even a 25 tonner will be a handful. Forget tanks, when the Army moved from the Suzuki Gypsy to the Mahindra Scorpio (which edged out the Tata Storme), army guys still fondle prefer the nimble lightweight Gypsy. Up there, size and power to weight both get critical. Its why Bajaj Platina tiddlers happily go where Royal Enfield Himalayans (with their Made for/by the Himalayas marketing bs) get bogged down and break their chassis.

 

[Harbyharb]

Its not just how they fight, but how they get there, before they (25 vs 40) engage. I've spent 25 years riding motorcycles in that region. Even a 25 tonner will be a handful. Forget tanks, when the Army moved from the Suzuki Gypsy to the Mahindra Scorpio (which edged out the Tata Storme), army guys still fondle prefer the nimble lightweight Gypsy. Up there, size and power to weight both get critical. Its why Bajaj Platina tiddlers happily go where Royal Enfield Himalayans (with their Made for/by the Himalayas marketing bs) get bogged down and break their chassis.

That is a matter of infrastructure which is also an aspect of the competition between India and China.

While it is understandable that limits in infrastructure would push India to employ a 25-ton platform if a conflict were to break out the kind of firepower it would have to contest would not be any different.

If anything, compared to other historical light tank concepts between 20-30 tonnes the Zorawar is quite necessarily large employing a less than compact layout, in relation to say Teledyne AGS. I certainly expected a light tank built in the 2020s to at least be able to resist most 2nd gen ATGMs, so ~800mm tandem chemical in frontal conical.

 

[vsdoc]

That is a matter of infrastructure which is also an aspect of the competition between India and China.

There is only so much infrastructure and roads can manage on steep slopes.

Versus a vast plateau.

The rest of your points I appreciate. I'm not a military enthusiast per se. But I know that terrain intimately. Its my second home. And I come from mountain herder ancestral stock.

 

[vikNerv]

That is a matter of infrastructure which is also an aspect of the competition between India and China.

While it is understandable that limits in infrastructure would push India to employ a 25-ton platform if a conflict were to break out the kind of firepower it would have to contest would not be any different.

If anything, compared to other historical light tank concepts between 20-30 tonnes the Zorawar is quite necessarily large employing a less than compact layout, in relation to say Teledyne AGS. I certainly expected a light tank built in the 2020s to at least be able to resist most 2nd gen ATGMs, so ~800mm tandem chemical in frontal conical.

Ummm no, it's not just about infrastructure, infact infrastructure can be taken out of the equation once you build the required infrastructure. It's the environment, the lack of oxygen at high altitudes that cannot be taken out of the equation. It doesn't matter what infrastructure we build there, the rarefied environment there means there is only so much weight it can take.

Edit: the kind of firepower faced at high attitudes is also vastly different than at sea levels. Man cannot carry as much weight at 4000m as they do at sea level. Same for vehicles. A solder carrying 20kg at sea level will not be able to carry as much. Same with vehicles, what fire power they can optimally carry and deliver at sea level will be lot more than they can carry at 4000m or 5000m. The atgm fired at sea level will be the same fired at high altitudes, but the numbers fired per carrier (man or machine) is a lot less at high attitudes. That too will play into the tactics being devised for high altitude warfare.

 

[suriya]

Indians are like a generation behind Iran on drone technology. I’m talking 25 years here. And then to make it real, they are more than likely another generation behind on drone tactics/ operations and doctrine…..

It’ll be a steep learning curve, but I know India has money now and substantial talent, so they’ll cut down on the time.

Indian have been operating drones from early 2000s.
Indians are currently operating US MQ-9B which are most advanced drones in the world.