India's Rise and The Weaponisation Of Rape

[vsdoc]

No Doc I didn't mean you, I am talking about the people in power in our country and on the media.

You and me can fight here, and feel great with few likes. We are piddi actually and don't matter

Think of the likes a person from every party gets (on any social platform), when he weaponizes rape by a person (actually or ideologically or figuratively) who belongs to a person of so called other side. That should tell you, there are sides now in evil.

There are many who have done that before (and from all sides), and do even now. Some guy said why did the doc stay in rest room, after 36 hrs of service. Apparently she is supposed to go into a bunker, and not be in the open.

Also like I said, yes we shouldn't but its us who have to decide if we should throw our kind under the bus or not. Only that as we take whatever West says as absolute, I feel we will throw our kind under bus (given our past and future with vested interests outside).

About where she was sleeping, I have done these shifts. We all sleep wherever we can. Whenever we can. Boys and girls both. Two chairs facing each other. Examination table. Or bed. I once slept on top of a -20 deg deep freezer. Its been happening for decades. @halupridol

 

[r3alist]

Only that as we take whatever West says as absolute, I feel we will throw our kind under bus (given our past and future with vested interests outside).

Will this is the crux.

 

[indushek]

Will this is the crux.

There is a blind hope in me, that somehow my old culture can defeat or at least circumvent this.

Its miniscule I will admit, but its still there. We did get this far, so maybe a bit more.. let the almighty decide however.

 

[r3alist]

There is a blind hope in me, that somehow my old culture can defeat or at least circumvent this.

Its miniscule I will admit, but its still there. We did get this far, so maybe a bit more.. let the almighty decide however.

It's far from existential yet , though when you are in the middle of it that's how it feels

I suspect rapid changes rarely stick for too long

Western ism's come and go, the latest one swallows up the previous one, they may just run out of new ones before they are swallowed by the same vortex of their creation!

 

[indushek]

It's far from existential yet , though when you are in the middle of it that's how it feels

I suspect rapid changes rarely stick for too long

Western ism's come and go, the latest one swallows up the previous one, they may just run out of new ones before they are swallowed by the same vortex of their creation!

They are already if am not wrong, at least what I am seeing online from both sides (liberal and conservative, that's how they divide till now, unless they come with new divisions in future. Mainly youtube that I consume, and they say Youtube is male centric lol) are pointing to follies within

There is a subliminal realization, which can't be openly admitted.

 

[r3alist]

They are already if am not wrong, at least what I am seeing online from both sides (liberal and conservative, that's how they divide till now, unless they come with new divisions in future. Mainly youtube that I consume, and they say Youtube is male centric lol) are pointing to follies within

There is a subliminal realization, which can't be openly admitted.

They argue over an imaginary or ever moving centre ground.


And the reason it's ever moving is every mainstream conservative voice has accepted most liberal ideas

I am not sure if there is any traditional conservative value left to conserve.

So your actual battle ground z battle ground of ideas, in reality, is in the West

 

[Skukuza]

The current Indian MEA touched briefly about the gender based violence in India whilst he was in Cape Town during the BRICS summit. I recall the MEA pointing out the gender imparity and the government's crackdown on foetal selection which apparently was widespread at one time. Indian GBV seems to be incredibly high notwithstanding the population. Before Indians jump the gun and start insulting my country, I must admit that we likewise have a problem which is being addressed by implementation of strict laws but a lack of resources to enforce the laws. Our media is vocal about the high numbers. And we don't accuse other countries of having an agenda when they point out our problem

 

[Nilgiri]

View attachment 61160

This is what I see when I log into my WhatsApp today, on an Alumni group of senior doctors. All big men and women in their respective fields. In India and the West.

I totally lost it man. And this was my response ....

Kind of stupid to throw an entire generation or gender under the bus. This woke feminist bs is seeping into our country and mid 50s guys are lapping it up subliminally.

Rape is a criminal act. Period. If raping women was a generational thing, guess how many women would be getting raped in our society today.

Pretty disgusted with this self hating trend of throwing Indian men under the bus en masse as if we are brought up being rapists.

The rise of any nation is sought to be countered by the already risen (the west) by picking on narratives and seeking to sow discord in their society. One size does not fit all. It was different for the Chinese during their rise. To the point where they could not be hit anymore. A society is made up of men and women in near equal numbers. Wokism, feminism, atheism, destruction of family, attack on gender roles and sowing mistrust and hatred between man and woman are excellent levers to rip out deep roots of an ancient people.

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Let's discuss.

Cheers, Doc

My initial thoughts (before reading the thread replies) are that India's political parties are largely apathetic and/or complicit with there being tenuous situation of law and order. Their work with social activist groups (that speak up about the issues) and such are very transactional and nominal at best.

This makes the country far weaker than it should otherwise be....as direct conduits of justice are purposely bypassed by those with sufficient authority and influence currently.

I can go on at some length just about the south and TN w.r.t its political party thug ecosystem (we dropped the ball after Kamaraj tenure in huge way) role in cultivating such a bad state of affairs on crime in TN....and this is supposed to be one of the more "developed" parts of India.

With the direct conduits in this state, indirect conduits to pitch and receive on the matter open up and entrench as default narrative commensurately more, as people want reductive quick conclusions..... throwing baby out with bathwater if need be.

This is its own phenomenon in social media internet mass comms age too, and with the various phenomena in societies that are wealthier and have largest influence in these spaces (as you mention with say the West and its "wokism")....reaction + counter-reaction spirals and weak and/or foul minded falling prey to it and/or exploiting it in whichever way.

This forum, microcosm as it is, already has clear bad faith agents on a number of topics to begin with (India related or otherwise).

Good faith agents that have principled criticism consistently (making no exceptions and having no bias) are fewer but stand out well. Strong minded, principled wise folks should know well the filter and test to put to determine this by now....and then making such folks their friends and allies.

In larger way the lurch to consolidation under chauvinist social conservative politics in Delhi central power has eroded India's larger moral principled standing, so the bad faith actors have more "easy ins" to make hay with whomever will listen or take them seriously (both inside and outside India).

If one is strong minded and wise, one will recognise this phenomenon's contours pretty well. It is not new, India is an immense country, extremely diverse, and a unique ancient cultural entity....and one can study other countries and contexts across time regarding this (power/narrative inevitably expanding into what has been weakened or left in bad state....as that's how power works in human psyche unfortunately).

India simply has to weather this, and attune itself to cultivating proper robust genuine social (and thus economic and political) strength.....and why law and order is a primary thing to get right and secure as can be. This in itself will provide large ingredient and force to get rid of the chauvinist political party in power, reform all the other parties (who are afflicted by this apathy and dereliction to their own large degrees, sometimes lending to the void that the chauvinism overarched into for its turn in sunlight)....i.e illustrating why secularism is principled for India (and human world at large, India being 1/6th of it).

i.e putting India on better moral principled standing again. But the inside-out prioritisation needs to happen....longer law and order is left in sufficient dereliction, India's social weakness will always be there, preyed upon in various ways internally and externally.

The solutions are all there and have long been there.... once you tune out the noise/distraction....one must always ask what stands in the way. You fix it and fix it well, the noise and distraction effect just becomes redundant and learns its place too.

 

[Nilgiri]

Hes trying to mollify you by playing good cop bad cop between us.

Bad faith actor....a glaring one.

The problem for South Asia Muslim folks is they don't have an Ataturk arc. The very setup of the diyanet under this Kemalist system is anathema to them.

Hence a lot of ersatz stuff took its place that conflates the matter and principle at hand (all the flavours of whataboutism and so on you see littering such threads). Whether the blockhead ignorant islamist is from South Asia or from some other place in world doesn't really make much difference.

Ataturk makes one of best easy litmus tests for this type when Turks and kemalism in their nationalism comes up for "discussion" and the archetypal islamist troll gets crushed and sent packing, tears and all, never to return and bitterly complaining about the Turkish "brothers" treating him that way.....and finds shall we say a safer space where islamism and ataturk-hate is tolerated and can be mixed into various threads easier. If its any solace to you, he got shown his place.... the downstream you see now is just angst ridden typical filler material....while trying to sound smart and playing the victim here.

i.e all the hypocrisy (to anyone thats wise enough to see it) that ends up..happening pointing fingers at Hindutva one-way....if you simply never had the Ataturk equivalent in deep enough muster in your modern republic foundation and ethos.

It is just harder to cultivate this principle as readily as the Turks have done in large parts of rest of Muslim world, given their own circumstances and inertias. The Turks also have their own internal political malestrom erosive threat (w.r.t Kemalism and secularism) going on w.r.t AKP that mirrors BJP in various ways, but again its not readily understood well by other Muslims in the world that "want secularism only for everyone else".

 

[Nilgiri]

rest of the thread, seems to have petered out on core matter at hand (law and order).

Lost interest in reading, just tag me again doc if any worthy replies you see etc.

 

[r3alist]

Bad faith actor....a glaring one.

The problem for South Asia Muslim folks is they don't have an Ataturk arc. The very setup of the diyanet under this Kemalist system is anathema to them.

Hence a lot of ersatz stuff took its place that conflates the matter and principle at hand (all the flavours of whataboutism and so on you see littering such threads). Whether the blockhead ignorant islamist is from South Asia or from some other place in world doesn't really make much difference.

Ataturk makes one of best easy litmus tests for this type when Turks and kemalism in their nationalism comes up for "discussion" and the archetypal islamist troll gets crushed and sent packing, tears and all, never to return and bitterly complaining about the Turkish "brothers" treating him that way.....and finds shall we say a safer space where islamism and ataturk-hate is tolerated and can be mixed into various threads easier. If its any solace to you, he got shown his place.... the downstream you see now is just angst ridden typical filler material....while trying to sound smart and playing the victim here.

i.e all the hypocrisy (to anyone thats wise enough to see it) that ends up..happening pointing fingers at Hindutva one-way....if you simply never had the Ataturk equivalent in deep enough muster in your modern republic foundation and ethos.

It is just harder to cultivate this principle as readily as the Turks have done in large parts of rest of Muslim world, given their own circumstances and inertias. The Turks also have their own internal political malestrom erosive threat (w.r.t Kemalism and secularism) going on w.r.t AKP that mirrors BJP in various ways, but again its not readily understood well by other Muslims in the world that "want secularism only for everyone else".

With respect, none of this is relevant to the thread topic at all

Doc and Sharma themselves have said it's fair game to grab quick singles, or whatever.

This feels very thin skinned.

 

[Nilgiri]

With respect, none of this is relevant to the thread topic at all

Doc and Sharma themselves have said it's fair game to grab quick singles, or whatever.

This feels very thin skinned.

My barometer to judge worth on forum is have I learned something from you, and how much. Doc and Joe earned positions on ladder here and they retain them.

I could care less about sharma....or doc or others banter with him.

Doc and I have had good conversations (that I actually learned things), so I owe him stuff in return when and where possible. He has his proclivities, foibles and so on... I see past that stuff as he has deeper stuff of worth.

Joe even more so regd deep quality convos I have had (and all kind of things I've learned), and that guy upset Joe....dunno if its the first time like that....but both deserve some background of what I've seen and reasons why I ignore that dude and others like him.

on topic or off topic is subjective, I feel its pretty on topic as people should simply not care too much about bad faith merchants, especially when they stomp in ignorantly and then persist in cringe manner afterwards....

of course one's mileage can vary different to mine, and everyone should TIFWIW....as its my opinion in the end.

 

[r3alist]

My barometer to judge worth on forum is have I learned something from you, and how much. Doc and Joe earned positions on ladder here and they retain them.

I could care less about sharma....or doc or others banter with him.

Doc and I have had good conversations (that I actually learned things), so I owe him stuff in return when and where possible. He has his proclivities, foibles and so on... I see past that stuff as he has deeper stuff of worth.

Joe even more so regd deep quality convos I have had (and all kind of things I've learned), and that guy upset Joe....dunno if its the first time like that....but both deserve some background of what I've seen and reasons why I ignore that dude and others like him.

on topic or off topic is subjective, I feel its pretty on topic as people should simply not care too much about bad faith merchants, especially when they stomp in ignorantly and then persist in cringe manner afterwards....

of course one's mileage can vary different to mine, and everyone should TIFWIW....as its my opinion in the end.

That's all very nice sounding, sweet etc really lovely

But an essay on south Asian Muslims and attaturk is nothing to do with the topic!

That's objectively true!

Never mind, rules are there to be bent, or just ignored, just a forum

 

[Nilgiri]

That's all very nice sounding, sweet etc really lovely

But an essay on south Asian Muslims and attaturk is nothing to do with the topic!

That's objectively true!

Never mind, rules are there to be bent, or just ignored, just a forum

It has everything to do with how things (social matters incl rape and crime) are weaponized versus India..... credibly or non-credibly. As it points out is the person judging on a level playing field for all, or is he fundamentally skewed on it (i.e a deepset India hater and/or Hindu hater.....and how that stacks with other non-Islam religions and identities as well....compared to reasoning/objective to keep all at arms length when it comes to the republic's law).

i.e the very reason co-religionists clash on social matters of law and order to begin with.... one says whats good for goose is good for gander, and another says only the goose. It happens within Hinduism as well or any religion when it comes to what should role of religion be in society, to have say effective unbiased law and order (and subsequent development socioeconomically, politically and so on).

Heavily biased law and order (to some social subset identity) means energy spent and unfairness, hypocrisy and unprincipled inconsistency that builds up and left unchallenged and ungrappled with in the society....this has serious penalties to its development. Religious identitarian/majoritarian bias is one of the worst ones that social conservatism can bring out as cudgel.

In other words if you are clear on the issue like many Turks have been due to Ataturk arc in first place, you often see quick direct rejection of such hypocrisy to begin with....they suffer fools less gladly than most other muslim majority countries I have seen....and it is something to learn from for muslim world and rest of world too. Its my take in the end...

Same reason I would take criticism of India (about say the BJP or India's social conservatism that leads to current permeation and sustenance and even growth of voids in India's law and order, that ultimately create situation for oppression of women incl rape and exploitation) far more credibly from Kemalist Turk....than from an islamist troll from x y z. One is simply much more grounded and principled in the end on the core matter at hand. i.e a religious agenda in statism should stink no matter the religion and state.

 

[r3alist]

It has everything to do with how things (social matters incl rape and crime) are weaponized versus India..... credibly or non-credibly. As it points out is the person judging on a level playing field for all, or is he fundamentally skewed on it (i.e a deepset India hater and/or Hindu hater.....and how that stacks with other non-Islam religions and identities as well....compared to reasoning/objective to keep all at arms length when it comes to the republic's law).

i.e the very reason co-religionists clash on social matters of law and order to begin with.... one says whats good for goose is good for gander, and another says only the goose. It happens within Hinduism as well or any religion when it comes to what should role of religion be in society, to have say effective unbiased law and order (and subsequent development socioeconomically, politically and so on).

Heavily biased law and order (to some social subset identity) means energy spent and unfairness, hypocrisy and unprincipled inconsistency that builds up and left unchallenged and ungrappled with in the society....this has serious penalties to its development. Religious identitarian/majoritarian bias is one of the worst ones that social conservatism can bring out as cudgel.

In other words if you are clear on the issue like many Turks have been due to Ataturk arc in first place, you often see quick direct rejection of such hypocrisy to begin with....they suffer fools less gladly than most other muslim majority countries I have seen....and it is something to learn from for muslim world and rest of world too. Its my take in the end...

Same reason I would take criticism of India (about say the BJP or India's social conservatism that leads to current permeation and sustenance and even growth of voids in India's law and order, that ultimately create situation for oppression of women incl rape and exploitation) far more credibly from Kemalist Turk....than from an islamist troll from x y z. One is simply much more grounded and principled in the end on the core matter at hand. i.e a religious agenda in statism should stink no matter the religion and state.

It's a lot of effort and theorising to explain an over reaction to one unliked comment

That's all this is

What it looks like is Indian posters agree there is manufacturing of narrative and projection here


If you read so did non Indians

It's not that it's not an issue or very tragic, but the underlying social conditions are known and understood, it's a constant



The variable here is the projection of the news and bad publicity


That you find a specific place for deconstruction of Muslim thinking, so called, is ridiculous.

There is no Muslim link in how this news Story is being projected.

Up to you, these same Muslims will then reserve the right to respond.