Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

First of all, I enjoy reading your posts.

But I have to disagree with you in the whole "Saudi should not be attacked by Iran because it's vital for Islam and middle East" narrative.

This recent war proved that-
1. Saudi Arabia isn't a worthy leader of the the Sunni Islam order, even though there is no better leader available to take over from the Saudia

2. Saudi Arabia (including its military) is a BIG- FOR -NOTHING useless force, Iran beat them up , as Saudia deserved and earned, and nobody could do anything about it, which is ok, because we are in the era of "might is right".

In short- since islam's global leadership is disoriented and lost, Iran had every right to take control of the Islamic order and structure in the world, because no other country comes close to deserving the leadership and actually serving the Islamic world. I respect Islam and do not want to say anything insensitive about it, but Sunni Islam today is in BAD SHAPE.

Look I get it, but this kind of talk will lead to internal conflict and a violent, destructive internal conflict at that

And victory is not clear cut

The Arab kinglets, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain etc were set up to control resources via small useless kingdom.states that were easily manipulated

The threat from bigger Muslim states, means decadent kings would ally themselves to the western empires (British, French at first, then the USA) to safeguard their position, wealth and power

They are fake states and removing them or getting them under control is vital going forward


Saudi Arabia is different , it's much bigger, wealthier, controls Mecca and Medina and is very much the leader of the Arab world or at least GCC

Any attempt to harm Saudi will lead to a multi state war and is simply not worth it

For all the mistakes of the past, we cannot repeat those mistakes in the future
And the best steps will be for Iran and Saudi to make peace and come to agreement and for that to happen both need to understand the others red lines
 
Israel is a military outpost for the US. At the same time I do not think Israel is necessary for them to have an outpost. In my opinion America would have a much easier time putting outposts in Arab land if they were not supporting Israel, and instead framed it as supporting X or Y arab country.

Zionism started in the 1800's and Israel was originally backed by the UK. Jews, or perhaps Frankist Jews, modified the Bible and brainwashed generations of Americans into believing Jews are superior and that Israel must be supported at all costs.

I used to think of American wars in the Mid East as secular, now all of this seems to be directly caused by Christian/Jewish extremism.

1. Geospatial value: The United States has long regarded Israel as its most reliable strategic pivot in the Middle East, sometimes even referred to as the "unsinkable aircraft carrier". This relationship began to take shape during the Cold War against the Soviet Union, with Israel serving as a key "regional asset" that helped the United States balance regional power.

2. Powerful lobbying groups: Within the United States, pro Israel lobbying groups are considered one of the most efficient interest groups in Washington and have a strong influence on congressional foreign policy.

3. Political considerations in elections: The influence of Jewish voters, Christian evangelicals, and other groups in key constituencies makes supporting Israel a highly important issue for American politicians.

4. Financial stewardship and significant shared economic interests: In medieval to early modern Europe, there was a widespread phenomenon of "court Jews" in European royal and aristocratic families. Some Jewish financiers, relying on their transnational family networks and keen business acumen, provided loans and raised military funds for European royal aristocrats in return for certain privileges. The Rothschild family during its heyday is a typical example, which became an important channel for financing for various European royal families and nobles through its family banking network spread throughout Europe. In modern times, Jewish groups still play the role of financial service providers and investment managers, who are actually investment butlers for the "old money" families in Europe and America. They have a financial relationship with the Western "old money" family that has a history of hundreds of years of cooperation.

The Jewish group not only manages the debt and financing of European sovereign states, but also the private property of the "old money" families in Europe and America. For example, the wealth of the Liechtenstein royal family (approximately $490 billion) is almost entirely concentrated in LGT Private Bank, which has long been part of a cluster of financial institutions controlled by the Rothschild family (Jewish conglomerate).


Overall, Israel, the United States, and some political forces in Europe (royal families and nobles) have extremely strong political, economic, religious, and other comprehensive interests tied together. Don't think you can cut off their support for Israel.

Please remember this sentence soberly: Israel is essentially a tool for Jewish groups to lead European and American "old money" families and religious groups to plunder the wealth of the Islamic world.
 
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It is best not to put too much weight into what some PDF members here say. What is important is what the official Iranian position says.

As far as I can tell, Pakistan has worked really, really, really hard to not allow the Saudis to react against Iran; some attacks on KSA happened and some were attributed to Israel's False Flag. And from media reports, the Saudis and the Iranian foreign ministers have spoken with each other; that's not a hostile relationship. I think the extent of Pakistan's help maybe blocking Iranian missiles on some critical Saudi infra and that will be it. I don't see Iranians doing that. Israelis might as False Flag.

BTW, any Pakistani presence in Saudi Arabia should be a major threat to Israel above any other country. The presence could grow larger and move westward. But it is all speculative at this point. At the least such westward movement should put some brakes on the Israeli help to India.
A logical take. I would add that it is perfectly reasonable for Pakistan to exert its influence in this way, and moreover, it is also partly an inevitable reaction to Delhi's hostile manoeuvring in the region over a few decades now. Pakistan was going to demonstrate its strength here sooner or later.

Rather than any party taking some form of affront to this, it is far more mutually beneficial for Saudis, Iranians and others to forge a path forwards alongside Pakistan. Iran's leaders certainly are very receptive and cordial towards Pakistan's representatives. That level of trust must have been genuinely earned somewhere along the way.
 
Let’s see if war resumes.

US might go for a early morning Saturday attack or wait till Saturday evening or even Sunday evening.

Would be a bold move to go to war so close to the World Cup starting.
 
A logical take. I would add that it is perfectly reasonable for Pakistan to exert its influence in this way, and moreover, it is also partly an inevitable reaction to Delhi's hostile manoeuvring in the region over a few decades now. Pakistan was going to demonstrate its strength here sooner or later.
Rather than any party taking some form of affront to this, it is far more mutually beneficial for Saudis, Iranians and others to forge a path forwards alongside Pakistan. Iran's leaders certainly are very receptive and cordial towards Pakistan's representatives. That level of trust must have been genuinely earned somewhere along the way.

IMO, Indians had betrayed Iran over an IAEA vote some years ago and also the Iranian Ayatollah had publicly called for justice over the Kashmir issue and that irked India. But India, being a large economy--trade around $20 billion/year with Iran--had far deeper pockets than Pakistan. I don't blame Iran for going after any morsel of money they could get given their situation. As for Chahbahar port, it is to be noted that the Indian investment on that port is lost to China just like the Indian investments in the Afghanistan between 2001 and 2021--lost.
India has been trying to make up for its geographic remoteness from the Eurasian theater by buying influence but I think India's military capabilities put India back. Pakistan and China have put India into a block of South Asian and Southeast Asian minnows.
 
It is surprising Tulsi Gabbard took this long to resign. Rumors were rife when her good friend Joe Kent resigned that Tulsi too was resigning. While her excuse maybe her husband health, many will connect her resignation to the sinking ship of the war on Iran. She, Rubio, and Vance are not supportive of this war. A bad war can sink future chances: Look at Hillary's support for the Iraq War 2003 and Obama's opposition to that war.
About the war opposition part, Tulsi and Vance, may be, but Rubio is a cold blooded war neocon, just see what he has been saying about Iran pre 2026. His current public opinion may look different right now because he doesn't want to carry the burden of this foolish illegal war in his possible candidacy in next U.S. presidential elections.
 
Sorry but we're going to have to disagree on this one. US suffered some losses but they are not more than a pinprick compared to the massive arsenal it has.

And in actuality many Americans are against this war including myself. Doesn't mean I'm going to dilute the truth any.

May the force be with you
True, US didn't suffer any noticeable losses, but their reputation as invincible power did suffer, and so did their ability to project power because of losing the ability to freely operate the military bases in M.E area because of constant Iranian barrages. And they also burned through high number of their offensive and defensive stockpiles which may take years to replenish.
 
As I said earlier, SMDA is a purely defensive pact. Pakistani forces stationed in KSA won't be venturing into Yemen or Iraq.
Ok
So you are misunderstanding the front. They'll be defending KSA.
Sure
You really think some rag tag militants are gonna successfully venture in KSA when 2 squadrons of JF17s and thousands of Pakistani troops are present?
Tell us how that has gone against the Taliban so far. Determined and skilled guerilla fighters can damage your army, do not be overconfident for no good reason.
 
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Iranian airspace partial closed, Gps interference reported as well in region.. we are near

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True, US didn't suffer any noticeable losses, but their reputation as invincible power did suffer, and so did their ability to project power because of losing the ability to freely operate the military bases in M.E area because of constant Iranian barrages. And they also burned through high number of their offensive and defensive stockpiles which may take years to replenish.
Well that's something different. I was just merely pointing out that The US didn't suffer any very noticeable losses

Everything else you get into I never mentioned at all. It was purely assets. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Mixed reports :

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The only option is for the states of the middle east to enter non aggression pacts that remove foreign bases and a promise is made not to attack each other's countries
Well Iran has started removing the foreign bases in the region, and because the blockhead weak GCC didn't enact the non aggression pact earlier with Iran, they'll now have hard choices to make, because some will have to submit to Iranian instructions, especially with the SOH choked off.
The Iran -saudi detent and relationship is vital going forward, the quicker Arabs and Iranians can get over their destructive rivalry the better
After successfully knocking US and the GCC down in round 1, Iran doesn't have to enter any detente or make compromising conssioms to the Saudia and gcc- it already has the upper hands and will set the tone, as it's already doing with the PGSA. Iran has partially decimated it's gulf rivals. Big egos and being pets of the Zs won't save Sunni Islam in the gulf anymore.
 

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