Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[PakAl]

there are maximalist demands and there are impossible demands

asking Iran to give up enrichment totally, is maximalist and very difficult, but not impossible

asking Iran to give up its missiles, which are virtually its only form of deterrence and self defence, is impossible

to get those terms they have to completely destroy Iran in a large war. a short conflict won't do it

Western powers will first ask Iran to give up nuclear facilities, then will say missiles are threatening us, then will say the regime is threatening us. Even if Iran gives up missiles, they will still come after Iran. Learning from Gaddafi and Saddam, they were weak militaries and no threat to the Usa but were still eliminated. Their aim is regime change, so they can have western aligned or friendly regime.

 

[PakAl]

Khomeini was against WMDs as well. When Saddam gassed Iranian cities, Khomeini refused to allow Iran to also develop chemical weapons.

So if Khomeini magically lived to 2000’s, I doubt he would have allowed a nuke either. He was more ultra conservative than even Khamenai.

I just dont understand the fatwa. If a leader is against building nuclear weapons, chemical weapons, biological weapons to defend themselves, then why create enemity and make threats against world powers who are pure evil and possess chemical biological and nuclear weapons, the same powers will use these weapons if needed.

 

[Meengla]

Western powers will first ask Iran to give up nuclear facilities, then will say missiles are threatening us, then will say the regime is threatening us. Even if Iran gives up missiles, they will still come after Iran. Learning from Gaddafi and Saddam, they were weak militaries and no threat to the Usa but were still eliminated. Their aim is regime change, so they can have western aligned or friendly regime.

Bolded part: Please watch the Trita Parsi video I posted yesterday. He is quoting an Israeli official saying that Israel cannot trust a unified Iran, which turned from friendly to hostile to friendly again to not turn hostile again. So the best outcome for Israel is a fragmented Iran along the lines of Libya or Syria.
That Israel tolerates American vassals states like Egypt or Jordan as unified may well be because there are already too many fronts to deal with, so save those states for later.

 

[VCheng]

Similarly, I don't buy the theories by some seniors here that America is on an aggressive path to make the Europeans pay more for their defense. It is not 'America', it is 'Trump' who is pushing for such policies with possible guidance by the likes of Stephen Miller, one of his key advisors. Trump wants personal glory to be remembered as one of the Greatest American Presidents ever. That, IMO, is the No. 1 reason for his aggressive policies.

Trump is only forcing EU to choose what to give up if they want US help to stop the invader on its East. Does that make more sense? There is far more to this than just a few egos.

 

[Meengla]

Trump is only forcing EU to choose what to give up if they want US help to stop the invader on its East. Does that make more sense? There is far more to this than just a few egos.

No. I don't believe in the 'invader' theory about Greenland nor about the topic of this thread. I had stated above it is 'Trump', not 'America', for his personal glory, doing the aggressive posturing in various places. As for Iran, I believe Netanyahu's hold on Trump is too much; I don't believe even a President JD Vance would be this supine to Netanyahu.

 

[PakAl]

I understand Russia is in a bind with Ukraine, but a good way to pay back the US is to transfer some high quality assets, maybe S400/S300 anti shipping missiles, Iskanders?

Its always been hard to read Russia, they are facing the hardest sanctions ever and here is a chance to really weaken your opponents and bog them down, provide an opening and distraction to finish their Ukrainian objectives.

Not good enough. The best way is for Iran to sign security deal with Russia, request Russia to open military base in Iran or a joint base, Russia must bring their fighter jets, nuclear submarines. This will stop any major attack immediately. Iran can then with support of allies try to calm the orange man, change their aggressive foreign policy, negotiate a solution, get the sanctions removed, build up their economy and military.

 

[VCheng]

I don't believe in the 'invader' theory about Greenland

Because that is not the invader on EU's EAST I am referring to. Russia is already in Ukraine.

 

[PakAl]

I dont think they have decent AD, their missiles however are something else.

According to Israeli sources or their experts opinion. Iran has 3000 missiles which can reach Israel, if Israel can shoot down atleast 70% then only 900 will reach their target. After this Iran will not be able to retaliate. This is what they're betting on.

 

[Meengla]

Because that is not the invader on EU's EAST I am referring to.

I guess you were referring to America itself. Still, no, I don't think Trump is in any mood to bargain over Greenland with the EU. Anyway, Greenland is offtopic here. I stand by what I said two posts above related to both Greenland and Iran.

 

[Meengla]

Not good enough. The best way is for Iran to sign security deal with Russia, request Russia to open military base in Iran or a joint base, Russia must bring their fighter jets, nuclear submarines. This will stop any major attack immediately. Iran can then with support of allies try to calm the orange man, change their aggressive foreign policy, negotiate a solution, get the sanctions removed, build up their economy and military.

The Russian Troops in Iran Train left the station years ago and some say the Iranians had refused such deployments. Russia is in really bad war against Ukraine and for all we know, Russia has been given some bone by Trump to grab a chunk of Ukraine for Russia's 'neutrality' elsewhere. Plus Russia is a good tool to scare Europe--I don't know why given Russia is a pale shadow of its power. Heck, it needed North Korean troops against Ukraine!

 

[VCheng]

I guess you were referring to America itself. Still, no, I don't think Trump is in any mood to bargain over Greenland with the EU. Anyway, Greenland is offtopic here. I stand by what I said two posts above related to both Greenland and Iran.

It is okay. We cannot agree on everything. EU has a choice to make as to what it wants to give up. Relevant to the topic, it is already offering to help USA with Iran in return for improved relations. Trump is driving a hard bargain with them as he is wont to do since he is convinced he does not need EU over this issue.

 

[kastor ville]

I had my first Sundis last week so you can technically call me a Sundis Khor if you like. How they hell you think I am drawing paycheques from the Islamic Republic while I live in Canada? I hope I don't have any credit with Garb Geda idiots like you who have been wrong about Iran going on 47 years now!

Just because you're in Canada doesn't mean you're not a regime shill......a willing shill, is someone who dismisses proof and holds fast to fallacies and lies. I really don't care what you do, all I know, is you have zero ideas, or news, you're nothing more than a consumer of our collective thinking. When you have something to contribute as far as policy or strategy, you can then get back to me....in the mean time FO!

 

[Meengla]

It is okay. We cannot agree on everything. EU has a choice to make as to what it wants to give up. Relevant to the topic, it is already offering to help USA with Iran in return for improved relations. Trump is driving a hard bargain wit them as he is wont to do.

Again, Trump doesn't need Europe's help against Iran. I don't see any hard-bargaining on getting the help to attack Iran nor any clever plan to make the EU increase its defense spending.
But we agree to disagree.

 

[VCheng]

Again, Trump doesn't need Europe's help against Iran. I don't see any hard-bargaining on getting the help to attack Iran nor any clever plan to make the EU increase its defense spending.
But we agree to disagree.

LOL. Trump is forcing EU to give up something more useful to USA than just help with Iran, which it does not really need. That is the hard bargaining here, not settling for some participation trophy.

 

[kastor ville]

Must watch...Carney said what we've known for some time now....the Rules Based Order is no more!
"We're in the midst of a rupture not a transition"

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