Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[ShapurII]

The Americans are not going to blow up the very thing they are trying to capture and have influence or control over... All the things you have mentioned are the things the USA and the world wants and needs so why burn it ? Your statement is not logical.

Who said anything about blowing it up? That's a strawman fallacy.
We were talking about Iran losing trillions of dollars and you said Iran couldn't lose 5 trillion dollars. Who talked about blowing it up? If Iran loses its oil fields to occupying forces, Iran has lost trillions of dollars. But that's OK to you because you're not Iranian.

I think they have, you suggest they haven't. Ok.

What you think as some random person on the internet has no importance in the war whatsoever. So, if your best argument for that is "I think it is so", then let's agree to disagree.

No - this is an open forum, and we are free to express our views and explain the rationale when required. I have done that.

You are free to express your views and I am free to express mine. What does that have to do with the statement you made?

What am I angry about ?!??!! Iran is not my country, I have no linkage or association to it, so why would I be angry and hateful about anything that is happening ????? This is not a logical statement.

I said you were ignorant, not angry. Read it again. I said you were ignorant about the situation of Iran, as clearly demonstrated by your idea that Iran cannot lose 5 trillion dollars, and you not being Iranian even strengthens my position, not weaken it. So, stop pretending to be an Iran expert when your information is incomplete and mostly wrong.

I have made my point above, Iran cannot lose 5 trillion dollars...

No, you just disproved your point and discredited yourself. You demonstrated you did not understand the value of Iran's resources.

That is ok - you are more than welcome to put me in your ignore list if i trigger you soo much. Please do so

What happened to we are free to express our views?

If getting your stupid definition of winning the war challenged by other members triggers you, then you can put me on your ignore list. This is the Iranian section of the forum and I'm an Iranian and can participate and challenge anything that concerns my country.

 

[BananaRepublic]

This is a joke, right? So, if Iran loses all of its power plants and bridges, loses Khuzestan and Bushehr which holds 90% of its energy resources, but continues to sink a few tankers in the Strait of Hormuz, Iran has won the war per your definition? lmao

Iran is winning as long as Iran controls the oil flowing out of the gulf.

The cost of winning is a different matter.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

By establishing military bases there? They also have multiple bases around Iran which can be used as well. It's not like the US lacks enough military presence near Khuzestan and Bushehr.

How did the US stay in Deir Ez-Zur in Syria throughout the Syrian Civil War? Assad didn't even bother to kick the US out after they occupied Deir Ez-Zur and took control of Syria's oil fields.

As long as Iran has no air force to move troops, and relies on land routes only, the US threat is very serious. And it is already too late for building an air force.

What???
US had basically Syria surrounded from all sides... Jordan, Iraq, zion and even Turkiye...

The logistics of basing in Iran are infinitely harder. Besides Iran has an effective drone strategy. One that isn't saving American bases in supposedly safe zones in GCC and Jordan. Zion itself is keeping it's head down because they cannot effectively throttle Iranian response. You would have had that miliekowsky running like a bunny for an encore. Instead, that rats tail got a shellacking of lifetime... licking it's wounds. It can effectively end their project... as coming congress not only defunds them but perhaps sanctions the entity.

 

[ShapurII]

I see that as opportunity cost. Total control over the strait of Hormuz is worth more than 5 trillion. If Iran can cement its de facto ownership it will pay infinite dividends in shaping behavior of nations worldwide. The sand statelets will fall to Iran sooner or later. If I had a say I would push for a petro rial. The same way that the emirs deposit their earnings in the US, they can shift that to Iran.

The math doesn't math, to be honest with you. Even if Iran imposes a toll on the Strait of Hormuz as proposed by the IRGC, our annual income from the Strait of Hormuz will be about $40 billion. It will take 125 years for Iran to make 5 trillion dollars from the Strait of Hormuz.

And of course, the Strait of Hormuz will lose its relevance then because other countries will start to avoid the Strait of Hormuz. The Emirates can easily bypass the Strait of Hormuz by creating new infrastructure on the other side of it and tiny Sheikhdoms like Bahrain and Kuwait will use Saudi Arabia to bypass it. Saudi Arabia may even create a canal to bypass the Strait of Hormuz completely and charge a toll there and Arab states will use that canal which will be a shortcut to the Western countries as well. The toll will be economically justified due to shorter distance to Europe.

 

[BananaRepublic]

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The Arabs are slowly roping in Pakistan against Iran.

It will lead to both Iran and Pakistan destroying themselves.

And creating an opening for their plethora of separatists.

Pakistani military needs to be careful about hiring itself out like a mercenary.

This is why it’s important to have a functioning political wing to provide balance.

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

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[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

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Kuwait had Pakistanis banned for 19 YEARS!

Systematically deported stateless Palestinians and Pakistanis over past 3 decades.
They have been living the consequences of their actions... today the wrath they're facing is of their own creation.

Will they have another ambassadors daughter shed some crocodile tears to get some sympathy? It is similar in Emirates...
GCC has been treating everyone sympathetic to them as kin or following the same creed as slaves while sending trillions of their economic output to be invested in the collective... depriving the people in the region from prosperity and prospects.

They care about nothing but preserving their own egg!

 

[ShapurII]

What???
US had basically Syria surrounded from all sides... Jordan, Iraq, zion and even Turkiye...

The logistics of basing in Iran are infinitely harder. Besides Iran has an effective drone strategy. One that isn't saving American bases in supposedly safe zones in GCC and Jordan. Zion itself is keeping it's head down because they cannot effectively throttle Iranian response. You would have had that miliekowsky running like a bunny for an encore. Instead, that rats tail got a shellacking of lifetime... licking it's wounds. It can effectively end their project... as coming congress not only defunds them but perhaps sanctions the entity.

The US already has more military bases near Khuzestan and Bushehr than it had around Syria. As I have said before, the US largest military base in the Middle East and North Africa is in Qatar which is not that far from both Khuzestan and Bushehr. And it will create more bases once it settles there, and it will start to destroy all land routes to Khuzestan and setup a border.

In 1945, the Berlin war was created in just two weeks. Do you think building reinforcements and trenches around our oil fields will be that difficult for the US then? Do you think if the US, God forbids, can occupy our oil fields, it will give up on $15 trillion dollars worth of money and will just let it go for no reason?

 

[Professor Jiang]

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Imagine dying to protect a country like Kuwait.

 

[tsunset]

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It will be a defensive pact so it doesn't matter for Pakistan

It's free money and oil for Pakistan

Their behavior of hosting foreign soldiers inside their country and allowing them to shoot rockets at neighboring country is everything but defensive

It's funny how Pakistan is scamming the Gulflets one by one

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

The US already has more military bases near Khuzestan and Bushehr than it had around Syria. As I have said before, the US largest military base in the Middle East and North Africa is in Qatar which is not that far from both Khuzestan and Bushehr. And it will create more bases once it settles there, and it will start to destroy all land routes to Khuzestan and setup a border.

Seriously!!!
You didn't just repeat that claptrap, right¿
Almost every base got hit in their safe zones... and you're saying they'll have an effective air bridge for logistics in Iran?

Do you remember Afghanistan?
US left weapons worth tens of billions because of logistics and that inspite of the fact Pakistan provided a land corridor. And when Pakistan stopped it for a country like Afghanistan it made things difficult for US! Where Hillary made less-than-an-appology to get their logistics running.

Just drop it!

In 1945, the Berlin war was created in just two weeks. Do you think building reinforcements around our oil fields will be that difficult for the US then? Do you think if the US, God forbids, can occupy our oil fields, it will give up on $15 trillion dollars worth of money and will just let it go?

Remember if it was possible and Orange had support ... and men lining up to volunteer for an adventure in Iran... perhaps!

But at a cost ... Iran is the size of western Europe!

 

[Magi]

The math doesn't math, to be honest with you. Even if Iran imposes a toll on the Strait of Hormuz as proposed by the IRGC, our annual income from the Strait of Hormuz will be about $40 billion. It will take 125 years for Iran to make 5 trillion dollars from the Strait of Hormuz.

And of course, the Strait of Hormuz will lose its relevance then because other countries will start to avoid the Strait of Hormuz. The Emirates can easily bypass the Strait of Hormuz by creating new infrastructure on the other side of it and tiny Sheikhdoms like Bahrain and Kuwait will use Saudi Arabia to bypass it. Saudi Arabia may even create a canal to bypass the Strait of Hormuz completely and charge a toll there and Arab states will use that canal which will be a shortcut to the Western countries as well. The toll will be economically justified due to shorter distance to Europe.

The benefits go far beyond direct tolling income. Shaping behavior will force nations to avoid hostile actions including hosting bases, do business with Iran, buy and sell materials and technology, buy oil and petrochemicals, etc. and eventually align militarily. That coercive power is the foundation of the American empire. Iran can do the same. It is impossible to put a dollar figure on the value of that.

Pipelines can easily be destroyed if the will exists. The Russian pipeline was blown up on deep sea bed. All Iran has to do is disrupt the Saudi and UAE oil flow through pipes. One Shahed hit a day at a random pumping station will do the job. Or the entire processing facilities can go up in smoke in extreme cases. That part is easy. Iran currently possesses the capability to prevent them from exporting oil if it really wants to. If that power is practiced it will be regional hegemony.

Petro Rial would be the crown jewel and the confluence of all the above.

 

[Magi]

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Are Pakistanis really offering themselves for a war with Iran?

 

[ShapurII]

Seriously!!!
You didn't just repeat that claptrap, right¿
Almost every base got hit in their safe zones... and you're saying they'll have an effective air bridge for logistics in Iran?

Do you remember Afghanistan?
US left weapons worth tens of billions because of logistics and that inspite of the fact Pakistan provided a land corridor. And when Pakistan stopped it for a country like Afghanistan it made things difficult for US! Where Hillary made less-than-an-appology to get their logistics running.

Yes, seriously. The US stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years, even established military bases there. The US could've held Afghanistan indefinitely if they wanted to. They left Afghanistan after turning the country into an even worse failed state than it initially was.

Remember if it was possible and Orange had support ... and men lining up to volunteer for an adventure in Iran... perhaps!

But at a cost ... Iran is the size of western Europe!

Iraq is also the size of multiple European countries. Afghanistan too. What's your point?

 

[Khorasan Black Flags]

Whatever we post here gets buried because of our professors' endless chit-chat