Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

I have never been an advocate for nuclear weapons but I think iran has about two month to go deep underground and go for a crude test of nuclear weapon and let everyone else follow Saudi turkey(technically they have but under American lock and key) and Egyptians screw it why do you need stealth fighters when you can put the fear of extinction on either side equilibrium


Turkey won't be allowed to have nuclear weapons and Egypt has no capability, forgetting the fact it won't be allowed to have them.

Both countries economies are dependent on the west.
 
Turkey won't be allowed to have nuclear weapons and Egypt has no capability, forgetting the fact it won't be allowed to have them.

Both countries economies are dependent on the west.
Even if Iran goes nuclear that doesn't mean others will do the same. I wouldn't count out pre emptive strike on nuclear facilities by Israel. It wouldn't stop Iranian nuclear ambition but delay the inevitable unless a ground invasion is approved by the Trump administration. That's the only way to stop Iran from fully acquiring nuclear weapons. The sooner Iran goes nuclear the better tho unless they believe Trump will not start a war for netanyahu. I don't see any nuclear deal to be signed nor sanctions to be lifted by Trump.things will stay the same and iran will be under more economic pressure. Brian hook wants a normalization between Arab states and Israel to isolate Iran.
 
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Isnt it better for Iran to have nuclear weapons to have a better bargaining chip with Trump?. A nuclear Iran will make Israel and America think twice about starting a war but a almost ready nuclear Iran might not have the same effect. They will never invade North Korea because they already have nuclear weapons 50-60 of them enough to destroy both South Korea and Japan. Iran is still wanting to normalize ties with the West but let me tell u tho Iran can't have a peaceful coexistence with the West without giving up on its resistance allies. Israel would never allow Iran to be close with the West while threaten its existence.
 
I have never been an advocate for nuclear weapons but I think iran has about two month to go deep underground and go for a crude test of nuclear weapon and let everyone else follow Saudi turkey(technically they have but under American lock and key) and Egyptians screw it why do you need stealth fighters when you can put the fear of extinction on either side equilibrium
In my opinion such decisions should never be taken hastily or based on emotions, predictions or illusions of urgency, unless it critically threatens Iran's integrity or existence

Trump elected doesn't mean Iran territorial integrity is critically threatened and that they are going to invade or bomb Iran imminently or very soon day 1 of his presidency, and that Iran needs urgently to develop nuclear weapons or enrich to 90% right now, and if not done, Iran is screwed

Iran has plenty of time to take decisions while Trump is in office, based on his actions, and not pre-emptively take actions based on "predictions" of what he will do

I'm not saying that Iran should wait for the very last moment before acting, but that Iran takes decisions based on facts and actions, not predictions or speeches
 
The nuclear deal removes the key elements needed to create a bomb and prolongs Iran's breakout time from 2-3 months to 1 year or more if Iran broke its agreement and give the United states enough time to act. I don't know how close Iran is in acquiring nuclear weapons. If Iran is stalling it out, I don't see any benefit from it if Israel decides to strike Iranian nuclear facilities and give the United states time to set up forces for a invasion then say good bye to that dream. Being a nuclear weapon state is better than not having it. What's good of a country if it's being torned apart there are such examples like Gaddafi of Libya and Saddam. No one is untouchable. Nuclear weapons is the best deterrent for mankind nothing else matters.
 
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Iran has nukes, not sure how many though. Only factor putting of NATO doing a full attack on Iran is China with which both Pakistan and Iran have defense pact. When US and India were plannign a joint attack on Pakistan big bro China stepped in and warned them off. Also NATO has its guns in too many places and weaknesses in as many more. Collapse of Ukraine would cause a domino callapse in Europe and that is what NATO is fearful off and it cannot afford major wars in other theaters. Taiwan and the Korea peninsula are on the brink , Turkey is exerting it's power , China is expanding its presence into areas which were once US unchallenged regions of interest.
For Iran is smart to be very cautious about China, as is Russia, to avoid too hard hug from eastern big brother, who could be same as his western counterpart, but different form...

For example, while China will not be so merciful for Israel, in local regional disputes around Persian Gulf by default will support Arabs... More opportunities for business and regional management, so be careful what you wish...


Unfortunate previous reformist administration of mr. Rouhani ended its era with epics failures, in a row one by one... He was honest with his grandiose idea of reformed Iran, among elite of European and American countries, in their hood...

Always such pro western governments in one moment are losing touch with reality, ending as double looser... He was step of his idea, and suddenly all his dreams collapsed...

After Trump's divorce, they had to provide anything to Iranians, so were fast to sign deal with China, with little real meaning to Iranian economy than oil...

And finally with Russia, that itself was interested in partnership with war in Ukraine and western isolation... that is first real deal with major country on equal basis...

And one of the reasons for this deal is not just usa, but China also...Its not any advantage if instead of America, China is taking advantage of yourself...

For Pakistan honestly, I am not sure how to make opinion now, but they are still with junta as leader of the nation, what is system's error by default...
 
Turkey won't be allowed to have nuclear weapons and Egypt has no capability, forgetting the fact it won't be allowed to have them.

Both countries economies are dependent on the west.
I’m just saying domino effect but yeah if iran goes nuclear others In the region will follow Saudi definitely but yeah if iran gets it others are going to get it QVC style buying them from Pakistan or having Pakistan set up shop in their countries
Like I said at this point I’m for nuclear Middle East F it
 
In my opinion such decisions should never be taken hastily or based on emotions, predictions or illusions of urgency, unless it critically threatens Iran's integrity or existence

Trump elected doesn't mean Iran territorial integrity is critically threatened and that they are going to invade or bomb Iran imminently or very soon day 1 of his presidency, and that Iran needs urgently to develop nuclear weapons or enrich to 90% right now, and if not done, Iran is screwed

Iran has plenty of time to take decisions while Trump is in office, based on his actions, and not pre-emptively take actions based on "predictions" of what he will do

I'm not saying that Iran should wait for the very last moment before acting, but that Iran takes decisions based on facts and actions, not predictions or speeches
I’m not for nuclear countries at all but at this point in time I think people getting nuclear weapons will perhaps bring sanity to people and perhaps move them to toward lasting peace I don’t think anyone wishes to use nuclear weapons at this point in time even if iran goes nuclear it would be a few years before they had something close to a stockpile to put real fear in anyone’s minds to not even come near Iranian territory again
 
The below table tells you just how much of the world reserves of oil that ME exports - odd they missed out Iran but that may be as it is under western sanctions. These 15 countries account for 85% of all world exports. So with the ME fields taken out the world has lost around 1/3rd of all exported oil.

Are you seriously expecting anyone here to think that anywhere near this amount can be replaced within say 3 months by raising production from producers like the US - remember the US increased exports of oil by just 1 million barrels after the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Exports from ME region was around 12-14 million barrels in 2023.

As for your "Production can be ramped up immediately in times of war" - please supply some valid evidence for this please with a credible link - just one would do.


View attachment 77902


In parallel, a surge in global oil production capacity, led by the United States and other producers in the Americas, is expected to outstrip demand growth between now and 2030. Total supply capacity is forecast to rise to nearly 114 million barrels a day by 2030 – a staggering 8 million barrels per day above projected global demand, the report finds. This would result in levels of spare capacity never seen before other than at the height of the Covid-19 lockdowns in 2020. Spare capacity at such levels could have significant consequences for oil markets – including for producer economies in OPEC and beyond, as well as for the US shale industry.

The reason the West dominates is because they don't live in the fantasy world. They learn, they plan and they follow through.

Any ME oil embargo will punish China more than any other country. It is madness itself to make an enemy of China. If the idea is to punish the US and Israel, then oil is the wrong weapon.
 
I understand that but we are responsible for Iranian lives first. From a game theoretic point of view, if Iran doesn't respond to a violation of its sovereignty, we can expect more attacks like this to follow. The taboo of Israel attacking Iran directly has been broken and if it goes unpunished, it will hugely hurt Iran's deterrence not only against Israel but also against US-backed regimes in the region.

This is pretty much like the situation with Soleimani's assassination. The regime decided to deescalate and it only led to further aggression by the West. In particular, now that Trump is back, a signal of weakness will only lead to further aggression by them.

Yes, Hezbollah is indeed important for Iran. Hamas played dirty in Syria but I would say that Hamas was also an important piece of puzzle against Israel. But Hamas committed suicide with October 7th and it dragged Iran into an unwanted situation without informing us. I still doubt that some factions inside Hamas did it intentionally. I don't trust Ikhwan Al-Muslimin. Both Qatar and Turkey have strategic ties with the US and NATO and it's hard to trust them.
I wouldn't address the other stuff right now, but Israel is greatly exaggerating October 7 tactical strike. It is not on such a large scale they made it out to be. There were no 'massacres' of any kind. The Israeli army is just not prepared for that kind of scenario.

Hamas sent assigned groups, but each group had a designated mission and were not aware of each others missions until it came down to execution phase, well into it. So each group may have completed a mission rather easily, and they were not aware of any results regarding casualties and prisoners captured. So these groups needed to make sure something was achieved in terms of results and did more than what asked. By the time the thing was over, the results were bigger than imagined.

This is the first time Hamas would execute a mission like that and they planned and executed well. Probably because they didn't want to fail. And failure was no a option. Most of Hamas wasn't aware of their this plan. And the assigned groups each had a exclusive mission but didn't know the rest of squads that would all join as one force. Saleh Al Arouri didn't know. Israel thought Hamas was focused on West Bank. Hamas in Gaza did not inform anyone of the plan because it was to be executed at random, and the full scope was only known by fewer people.

Israel however and Western media went hard to work to claim this is a massive 'terror' attack and massacres and all kinds of lies. When there was no such drama. Tactical strikes only lasted several hours. Each strike that was successful led to elimination of 20 or so soldiers. It added up at the end but when it comes proportionality, it was mostly smaller numbers of soldiers/security forces eliminated in many different areas. Not one giant massacre here or there. There was no such thing.

Israel, however, has been trying since 10 years to eliminate the Palestinian cause. And they tried having Sisi move Palestinains into Egypt. They tried Abraham accords, etc... this is something they're trying to execute for long time. So their motive was already there. They weren't reacting. They just believe let's see how far we can get away with things. And the more they see, the more they try. They've always been inherently violent. Don't mistaken any of what's happening as a reaction. It's not. They're trying to make strategic moves through terrorism/ethnic cleansing which is not strange to them. And something they comfortably employ and have done since decades.

Hamas's move was reactionary, proportional, and justified. And Hamas wanted to break status quo in the region and encourage region to make strategic moves. Putting people in a prison and besieging it for 20 years will cause a prison break, or reaction like that.

The Western Jews basically flipped everything upside with the Western media campaign which apparently Arabs and Muslims didn't bother to counter and allowing them to go ahead and level Gaza made world think they're boiling and reaction, they achieved the emotional manipulation that was, when really they were calm and collected but wanted to carry out such ethnic cleansing for a long time. And they made it so narrative is it was a given that Gaza would be carpet bombed and levelled.

When that is not the case. That was not going to happen to Gaza if Arabs and Muslims even remotely exercised their influence. Instead they got intimidated by the dirty media campaign propaganda and gave in immediately. When you accept their narrative and refuse to advance Hamas's narrative , then they gave Israel everything they wanted and made it appear credible.

Hamas didn't want to startle its allies or put them in a vulnerable situation but it also has interests of its people at forefront and was in a difficult situation. Hamas was making lots of rhetoric about regional war for Jerusalem beforehand. And Hamas was serious about the region and it's people taking a risk to achieve strategic gains. Obviously Hamas overestimated willingness of people of region and it's nations to do that. And underestimated how dead and defeated they were.
 
I wouldn't address the other stuff right now, but Israel is greatly exaggerating October 7 tactical strike. It is not on such a large scale they made it out to be. There were no 'massacres' of any kind. The Israeli army is just not prepared for that kind of scenario.

Hamas sent assigned groups, but each group had a designated mission and were not aware of each others missions until it came down to execution phase, well into it. So each group may have completed a mission rather easily, and they were not aware of any results regarding casualties and prisoners captured. So these groups needed to make sure something was achieved in terms of results and did more than what asked. By the time the thing was over, the results were bigger than imagined.

This is the first time Hamas would execute a mission like that and they planned and executed well. Probably because they didn't want to fail. And failure was no a option. Most of Hamas wasn't aware of their this plan. And the assigned groups each had a exclusive mission but didn't know the rest of squads that would all join as one force. Saleh Al Arouri didn't know. Israel thought Hamas was focused on West Bank. Hamas in Gaza did not inform anyone of the plan because it was to be executed at random, and the full scope was only known by fewer people.

Israel however and Western media went hard to work to claim this is a massive 'terror' attack and massacres and all kinds of lies. When there was no such drama. Tactical strikes only lasted several hours. Each strike that was successful led to elimination of 20 or so soldiers. It added up at the end but when it comes proportionality, it was mostly smaller numbers of soldiers/security forces eliminated in many different areas. Not one giant massacre here or there. There was no such thing.

Israel, however, has been trying since 10 years to eliminate the Palestinian cause. And they tried having Sisi move Palestinains into Egypt. They tried Abraham accords, etc... this is something they're trying to execute for long time. So their motive was already there. They weren't reacting. They just believe let's see how far we can get away with things. And the more they see, the more they try. They've always been inherently violent. Don't mistaken any of what's happening as a reaction. It's not. They're trying to make strategic moves through terrorism/ethnic cleansing which is not strange to them. And something they comfortably employ and have done since decades.

Hamas's move was reactionary, proportional, and justified. And Hamas wanted to break status quo in the region and encourage region to make strategic moves. Putting people in a prison and besieging it for 20 years will cause a prison break, or reaction like that.

The Western Jews basically flipped everything upside with the Western media campaign which apparently Arabs and Muslims didn't bother to counter and allowing them to go ahead and level Gaza made world think they're boiling and reaction, they achieved the emotional manipulation that was, when really they were calm and collected but wanted to carry out such ethnic cleansing for a long time. And they made it so narrative is it was a given that Gaza would be carpet bombed and levelled.

When that is not the case. That was not going to happen to Gaza if Arabs and Muslims even remotely exercised their influence. Instead they got intimidated by the dirty media campaign propaganda and gave in immediately. When you accept their narrative and refuse to advance Hamas's narrative , then they gave Israel everything they wanted and made it appear credible.

Hamas didn't want to startle its allies or put them in a vulnerable situation but it also has interests of its people at forefront and was in a difficult situation. Hamas was making lots of rhetoric about regional war for Jerusalem beforehand. And Hamas was serious about the region and it's people taking a risk to achieve strategic gains. Obviously Hamas overestimated willingness of people of region and it's nations to do that. And underestimated how dead and defeated they were.
Ahhh. Some clear thinking. BTW, I repeatedly mentioned Zionia will have a minor attack bulked up by the usual wave of exaggeration via propaganda.

And, of course, many here fall for this garbage right here. Repeatedly.
 
I’m just saying domino effect but yeah if iran goes nuclear others In the region will follow Saudi definitely but yeah if iran gets it others are going to get it QVC style buying them from Pakistan or having Pakistan set up shop in their countries
Like I said at this point I’m for nuclear Middle East F it
Of course that Iran is nuclear-armed, and unlike most other countries, Iran is actively using its nuclear power as existential protection...there are few techniques to build atomic bomb, impacting nuclear-like results...

Iranian nuclear weapon, that is already active in full capacity, is great post-degree study about geopolitical devastating Israeli match with Iran...

Narrative is already iron solid in mainstream political reality, no back...whatever Iran do now, most devastating answer to iran can be own nucler facilities...and vetoed in global narrative, will give excuse to ruin Israel, maybe leveling of Tel Aviv is one of those actions, but Iran will have open hands to use everything that they are preparing for more than 3 decades... and they will be enforced to stop, both, because instances of the deciding than would be Russian and American nuclear warheads, and there is no possible power that can match their mutual veto on anything...

I am not sure if I am clear at all, this is still ongoing historical lesson...where only sure thing is that ultimate result of Iran vs Israel is decisive Iranian victory...
 
Ahhh. Some clear thinking. BTW, I repeatedly mentioned Zionia will have a minor attack bulked up by the usual wave of exaggeration via propaganda.

And, of course, many here fall for this garbage right here. Repeatedly.
Well said. So much doublespeak and wild media propaganda. Any training by resistance forces is 'brazen' but operational plans to execute genocide/ethnic cleansing is normal and beautified. With total media blackout refusing to show what genocide and ethnic cleansing looks like.

Arabs and Muslims have been dehumanized to a very large extent. Nothing but a shock and awe and defeat of Israel will recover their dignity for them. They have to command respect again. And put a stop to dangerous Western dehumanization of other people and cultures. Which is mostly led by Jewish billionaires and people of influence in the West.

People of Gaza broke out of a prison on October 7, some of them knowing they won't come back. They don't want to die but they rather die fighting than live on their knees. They are the unfortunate people that are reacting and the people the world should come to aid of. But Western propaganda made it appear like they were fanatical and powerful killers. When in reality that's Israel that's fanatical and has biggest weapons arsenal in region along with unlimited and undisrupted supply of terror bombs.
 
Well said. So much doublespeak and wild media propaganda. Any training by resistance forces is 'brazen' but operational plans to execute genocide/ethnic cleansing is normal and beautified. With total media blackout refusing to show what genocide and ethnic cleansing looks like.

Arabs and Muslims have been dehumanized to a very large extent. Nothing but a shock and awe and defeat of Israel will recover their dignity for them. They have to command respect again. And put a stop to dangerous Western dehumanization of other people and cultures. Which is mostly led by Jewish billionaires and people of influence in the West.

People of Gaza broke out of a prison on October 7, some of them knowing they won't come back. They don't want to die but they rather die fighting than live on their knees. They are the unfortunate people that are reacting and the people the world should come to aid of. But Western propaganda made it appear like they were fanatical and powerful killers. When in reality that's Israel that's fanatical and has biggest weapons arsenal in region along with unlimited and undisrupted supply of terror bombs.
Yes, world is very unfair place unfortunately, no justice and will never be...even nature is not fair, only some of them will survive among all species...

What could be more justified case of resistance in place where Israeli leaders openly admit politics of 'cleaning" few hundred thousand people in periodically changing to keep them "safe"...

They are fighting desperate war, we will see.... Hezbollah is less desperate and anti-israeli commando unit...Lebanon will lose, but no Hezbollah...and Iran, as major nemesis and with multilayered defense is too big for Zion entity...

Without decisive and longstanding defeated Hezbollah, they are nit qualified for that stage...
 
In my opinion such decisions should never be taken hastily or based on emotions, predictions or illusions of urgency, unless it critically threatens Iran's integrity or existence

Trump elected doesn't mean Iran territorial integrity is critically threatened and that they are going to invade or bomb Iran imminently or very soon day 1 of his presidency, and that Iran needs urgently to develop nuclear weapons or enrich to 90% right now, and if not done, Iran is screwed

Iran has plenty of time to take decisions while Trump is in office, based on his actions, and not pre-emptively take actions based on "predictions" of what he will do

I'm not saying that Iran should wait for the very last moment before acting, but that Iran takes decisions based on facts and actions, not predictions or speeches
Lol, guardian is top example why no one takes msm seriously for a long time...Article is basically "leave me alone, you Israel and iran, i want to make love with putin and no disturbing"...
 

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