Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[tower9]

Both Jordan and Saudia Arabia were in on the attack for sure. No way IDF IAF could have gotten there without co-operation from them both ... Syria/Iraq are basked cases for sure but the Syria route is the longest route.

ARAB GONNA ARAB

 

[Watandar]

Same route they took which they used to attack Iran.

Flew over Jordan -> Iraq -> Qatar

They refueled over Jordanian / Iraqi airspace.
View attachment 145712

They flew in backyard / frontyard of Iran.

In Iran attacks, they would fly to western Iraq and launch missiles from there and fly back, its because fast jets lack endurance. For them to have flown all the way to Gulf and launched from there, it would require another refuel over southern Iraq or Kuwait and then two refuelings on the way back. To me at least that doesn't add up. I think the Israeli jets took off from a neighboring country like UAE or Saudi or Bahrain. The attack could also have been conducted by the US or Qatar itself. Seems Qatar wants to quit its role in Palestine.

 

[nang2]

Another strawman. I never said Africa, SE Asia, or Latin America are “nobodies.” Stop putting words in my mouth. My point is simple: name one country China (or Russia) has actually built up into a successful state. The US has clear examples like Japan and South Korea. Who does China have?

Because you said "And which country is it that China has actually helped? Seriously, name one.". China has a long history of helping small "nobody" countries for mutual benefits and it is still doing that. You don't see it because those are "nobody" countries to you. Well, I don't blame you. Even China is a nobody country to you, let alone those much smaller and weaker countries. That is why I said that in your eyes, only the West exists because they are the strongest.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

In Iran attacks, they would fly to western Iraq and launch missiles from there and fly back, its because fast jets lack endurance. For them to have flown all the way to Gulf and launched from there, it would require another refuel over southern Iraq or Kuwait and then two refuelings on the way back. To me at least that doesn't add up. I think the Israeli jets took off from a neighboring country like UAE or Saudi or Bahrain.

Yes likely they refuel over southern Iraq. or maybe even over persian gulf

 

[tower9]

Another strawman. I never said Africa, SE Asia, or Latin America are “nobodies.” Stop putting words in my mouth. My point is simple: name one country China (or Russia) has actually built up into a successful state. The US has clear examples like Japan and South Korea. Who does China have?

The Japanese and Koreans built up their own countries. Yes, they had US help, but their cultures are very success oriented. There are countless US allies that have languished in third world conditions including many Latin American countries, the Philippines, African dictatorships, and a lot of that has to do with their internal systems and cultural values.

But I agree, China does suck in terms of building up its allies. Part of it is because the US, because of it's dominance, took most of the successful countries as allies, including Japan, Europe, Australia, etc. It wasn't that the US made them successful, but they were already successful independently.

Who knows what the next 50 years will bring though. There are countries that are following China now and are modernizing rapidly. Ethiopia, Cambodia, for example are modernizing very rapidly and much of that investment is from China. There may also be major shifts in the alliance systems where many former US allies will move towards neutrality or may even start gravitating towards China in the next few decades.

 

[mangekyo]

Because you said "And which country is it that China has actually helped? Seriously, name one.". China has a long history of helping small "nobody" countries for mutual benefits and it is still doing that. You don't see it because those are "nobody" countries to you. Well, I don't blame you. Even China is a nobody country to you, let alone those much smaller and weaker countries. That is why I said that in your eyes, only the West exists because they are the strongest.

You’re twisting it again. I never said “nobody countries” or that only the West exists. Another strawman. What I said was clear: name one country China has actually built up into a successful state. Not just “helped a little” or “gave loans.”

If China has this “long history” you claim, it should be easy to name a single successful example. But you can’t because there isn’t one.

 

[lightning f57]

Question why would Qatar be in on the attack? They have been playing negotiator its provided them a platform to push for their style of diplomacy internationally they have also cordial relations with Hamas so makes no sense they sacrifice Hamas and for what given there are ceasefire negotiations.

To me it shows having those shiny western aircraft and airdefence is nothing as all these western equipments are compromised.

 

[Watandar]

Question why would Qatar be in on the attack? They have been playing negotiator its provided them a platform to push for their style of diplomacy internationally they have also cordial relations with Hamas so makes no sense they sacrifice Hamas and for what given there are ceasefire negotiations.

To me it shows having those shiny western aircraft and airdefence is nothing as all these western equipments are compromised.

Well one reason could be to exit their role in the Gaza talks and join remainder GCC in washing their hands off Palestine forever.

 

[Watandar]

ARAB GONNA ARAB

Insulting all Arabs is not going to help anyone.

 

[nang2]

You’re twisting it again. I never said “nobody countries” or that only the West exists. Another strawman. What I said was clear: name one country China has actually built up into a successful state. Not just “helped a little” or “gave loans.”

If China has this “long history” you claim, it should be easy to name a single successful example. But you can’t because there isn’t one.

Of course, why would you say it when you don't even see it? BTW, you just used the word "help". Now you start to twist it into "actually built up into a successful state".

 

[tower9]

You’re twisting it again. I never said “nobody countries” or that only the West exists. Another strawman. What I said was clear: name one country China has actually built up into a successful state. Not just “helped a little” or “gave loans.”

If China has this “long history” you claim, it should be easy to name a single successful example. But you can’t because there isn’t one.

You are comparing Apples to Oranges. We have been living in a Western dominated world for the last few centuries. The US has dominated the global financial, political and economic structure for the last several decades. During this time, China was mainly just focusing on developing itself and escaping poverty within this US dominated system.

Now China is emerging as a major superpower in its own right and is creating it's own systems that are independent of the West. Countries are starting to integrate themselves into this alternative system amidst a collapsing global order. We will see in 50 years what countries thrive. I think there will be a number of major countries that will thrive under a China led system, alternatively, many US allies are heading towards economic collapse including former imperial powers like Japan, the UK, France, etc.

 

[mangekyo]

The Japanese and Koreans built up their own countries. Yes, they had US help, but their cultures are very success oriented. There are countless US allies that have languished in third world conditions including many Latin American countries, the Philippines, African dictatorships, and a lot of that has to do with their internal systems and cultural values.

But I agree, China does suck in terms of building up its allies. Part of it is because the US, because of it's dominance, took most of the successful countries as allies, including Japan, Europe, Australia, etc. It wasn't that the US made them successful, but they were already successful independently.

Who knows what the next 50 years will bring though. There are countries that are following China now and are modernizing rapidly. Ethiopia, Cambodia, for example are modernizing very rapidly and much of that investment is from China. There may also be major shifts in the alliance systems where many former US allies will move towards neutrality or may even start gravitating towards China in the next few decades.

You’re kind of proving my point here. Even you admit China sucks at building up allies, and that most of its “partners” aren’t success stories. Ethiopia and Cambodia modernizing is not the same as building a Japan or South Korea, it’s just a bit of infrastructure and investment, nothing close to lifting a country into true prosperity or independence. Pakistan is still dependent on IMF loans to survive.

And let’s not rewrite history: Japan and Korea didn’t just succeed on their own. They were devastated after WWII and the Korean War. US support, military protection, markets, capital, and tech transfer was absolutely decisive. Without that, their “success-oriented culture” wouldn’t have had the chance to get anywhere.

I’m no China hater or Asia hater, actually I prefer the East over the West in many ways. But the track record is very clear.

And since you brought up “culture,” let’s look at Iran. Iran’s economy was one of the fastest-growing in the world while it was aligned with the West. After the revolution and turning east, look now, poverty, water and electricity shortages, constant crisis. Same people, same culture, completely different results. That should tell you it isn’t about culture, it’s about which direction you align with.

 

[lightning f57]

Well one reason could be to exit their role in the Gaza talks and join remainder GCC in washing their hands off Palestine forever.

They dont want to wash their hands this gives them legitimacy they are vying for influence across the arab world.

I think they were caught pants down, the US might have even turned off their PAC3 air defences.

 

[Arash]

You guys still think a deal is possible with these people who have used diplomacy repeatedly as a a ruse? They're not interested in making deals, sanctions will not be removed. Zarifites and khamenei are just as big of cucks as the pgcc emirs. A deal with the US means turning into Syria or now we can add Qatar - jews bombing Tehran whenever they feel like it.

No and that's another wake up call for all !

 

[Arash]

You should post that in n Zarif’s X feed to see how he responds.

Oh it's pretty much easy to guess...... Har har har...