Iran Plans to Buy Chinese J-10C Instead of Russian Su-35

[ShapurII]

Here is the crux


Iran considers itself a pole of influence in its own right, therefore will not accept Chinese alignment too much

If you go back 15 years before china entered diplomatic wolf warrior mode, why would it put itself out for Iran in the un ......absent real strategic alignment?

Chinese are from their sensitivities uncomfortable with exporters of revolution as well

There could be reasons for alignment between China and Iran on the long-term, but these reasons are not currently feasible and realistic because China is too focused on her economy and is happy with the status quo. China is a permanent member of the UNSC and is therefore part of the current world order.

Both China and Iran have suffered from the interference of the Western powers in our modern history, particularly the British. China benefits from a world where the US has less control over international affairs, so does Iran. Even the Uyghur problem in China could be a situation where Iran could help and we do have some common interests there. The situation of Central Asia is another example of potential common interests between Iran and China.

Iran expects China to help us weather the storm and China is just too transactional and prefers to stay low for now, it prefers to focus on short-term profits and follow a greedy algorithm. China understands quite well that the Iranian revolution is no threat to China, but it is also reluctant to ruin her relations with the West over Iran.

 

[r3alist]

There could be reasons for alignment between China and Iran on the long-term, but these reasons are not currently feasible and realistic because China is too focused on her economy and is happy with the status quo. China is a UNSC member and is therefore part of the current world order.

Both China and Iran have suffered from the interference of the Western powers in our modern history, particularly the British. China benefits from a world where the US has less control over international affairs, so does Iran. Even the Uyghur problem in China could be a situation where Iran could help and we do have some common interests there. The situation Central Asia is another example of potential common interests between Iran and China.

Iran expects China to help us weather the storm and China is just too transactional and prefers to stay low for now. China understands quite well that the Iranian revolution is no threat to China, but it is also reluctant to ruin her relations with the West over Iran.

Well china is simultaneously building for a potential new world order whilst not risking it's progress with unnecessary confrontation that hinders it's growth path.


Neither should go around blaming the other that it is more status quo than the other, china is literally creating it's FULL STACK technology and financial order seperate, what's more independent than that i don't know

Pakistan benefit alot from beidu

 

[tower9]

There's really no point going on with this back and forth between Iranian and Chinese members. Truth is, both countries have been transactional and can be faulted for how the relationship has been developed. China 15 years ago, and even 10 years ago is very different to China today. China today is way more powerful, more independent and have weathered through countless US sanctions, therefore it is much more in a position to challenge Western hegemony than 15 years ago when 30% of Chinese exports went to the US alone and it was a much poorer country and heavily dependent on Western institutions and tech.

Iran is also an extremely proud country and has kept China at arms length because it sees itself as one of the poles in a multi polar world. Iran's leaders have also been very ideological and have created enemies everywhere, which is very foolish. This situation is also considered when China is aligning itself with Iran because China also has deep relationships with other players in the region like the GCC and also a huge economic relationship with Europe.

At the end of the day, none of us can really know what's going on. It is clear that during the war, China did send supplies and help to Iran. The full extent of this we do not know. China will never advertise what it supplied to Iran because it wants to keep it confidential. But it is obvious that China was one of the few countries that actually helped Iran, otherwise why has the Iranian leadership's attitude towards China significantly warm after the ceasefire?

Whether China supplies J10cs is an even more complex matter. I guess we will have to see how things play out.

 

[ShapurII]

Well china is simultaneously building for a potential new world order whilst not risking it's progress with unnecessary confrontation that hinders it's growth path.


Neither should go around blaming the other that it is more status quo than the other, china is literally creating it's FULL STACK technology and financial order seperate, what's more independent than that i don't know

Pakistan benefit alot from beidu

I do not challenge the Chinese approach. It has worked for them but China is not a counter-balance to the West at all.
I personally think that the collective West will never leave China alone. Iran is no threat to the collective West, but China is. So, sooner or later, they will come after China.

We are seeing the Clash of Civilizations unfold in real time in front of our eyes now. The White Anglo-Saxon culture is very different from the Chinese culture. In a peaceful world where things are calm, these two cultures can co-exist together but we're not moving in that direction anymore.

I respect what China is doing for herself. China is the only truly independent country left on the planet. Every other country in the world has been infiltrated by the US tech. They have their own semi-conductor industry, their own OS (even though based on Linux kernel), their own national intranet using their own infrastructure, their own brain-implants, their own cryptographic protocols, quite impressive to be honest.

 

[vmro]

Su-35 would be better given longer range and probably more likely.

Yes, they are on the way to land in Iranian Airport...way is long...decades long...

For rumors that Chinese are afraid of leaking sensitive information about their J-10 jets, entire program is taken from Israelis long time ago...nothing spectacular could be found

 

[nang2]

I do not challenge the Chinese approach. It has worked for them but China is not a counter-balance to the West at all.
I personally think that the collective West will never leave China alone. Iran is no threat to the collective West, but China is. So, sooner or later, they will come after China.

We are seeing the Clash of Civilizations unfold in real time in front of our eyes now. The White Anglo-Saxon culture is very different from the Chinese culture. In a peaceful world where things are calm, these two cultures can co-exist together but we're not moving in that direction anymore.

I respect what China is doing for herself. China is the only truly independent country left on the planet. Every other country in the world has been infiltrated by the US tech. They have their own semi-conductor industry, their own OS (even though based on Linux kernel), their own national intranet using their own infrastructure, their own brain-implants, their own cryptographic protocols, quite impressive to be honest.

It is more of a power struggle than a cultural conflict.

 

[ShapurII]

It is more of a power struggle than a cultural conflict.

Indeed, but each regional/global power has a sphere of influence that is defined by a number of factors, of which one is soft power.

It is easier to extend your soft power in countries that are culturally similar to yours.
China can extend her sphere of influence in East Asia much more easily than it can in Western Europe, for example. Iran can extend her sphere of influence in the Middle East much more easily than it can in Northern Europe, for example.

 

[r3alist]

I do not challenge the Chinese approach. It has worked for them but China is not a counter-balance to the West at all.
I personally think that the collective West will never leave China alone. Iran is no threat to the collective West, but China is. So, sooner or later, they will come after China.

We are seeing the Clash of Civilizations unfold in real time in front of our eyes now. The White Anglo-Saxon culture is very different from the Chinese culture. In a peaceful world where things are calm, these two cultures can co-exist together but we're not moving in that direction anymore.

I respect what China is doing for herself. China is the only truly independent country left on the planet. Every other country in the world has been infiltrated by the US tech. They have their own semi-conductor industry, their own OS (even though based on Linux kernel), their own national intranet using their own infrastructure, their own brain-implants, their own cryptographic protocols, quite impressive to be honest.

I feel that it is an unhelpful dichotomy to say one is independent and one is not

The west made it's world order whilst everyone was on its knees recovering from conquest empire and divide and rule, no one at all is independent of anything yet

That damage takes time to repair

To my mind it is a great shame that two very very important and independent people like Iranians and Chinese are not patient with each others struggles and ambitions

 

[tower9]

I do not challenge the Chinese approach. It has worked for them but China is not a counter-balance to the West at all.
I personally think that the collective West will never leave China alone. Iran is no threat to the collective West, but China is. So, sooner or later, they will come after China.

We are seeing the Clash of Civilizations unfold in real time in front of our eyes now. The White Anglo-Saxon culture is very different from the Chinese culture. In a peaceful world where things are calm, these two cultures can co-exist together but we're not moving in that direction anymore.

I respect what China is doing for herself. China is the only truly independent country left on the planet. Every other country in the world has been infiltrated by the US tech. They have their own semi-conductor industry, their own OS (even though based on Linux kernel), their own national intranet using their own infrastructure, their own brain-implants, their own cryptographic protocols, quite impressive to be honest.

I think China understands this situation and if help is provided to Iran, it is with this understanding as the calculus.

 

[ShapurII]

I feel that it is an unhelpful dichotomy to say one is independent and one is not

The west made it's world order whilst everyone was on its knees recovering from conquest empire and divide and rule, no one at all is independent of anything yet

That damage takes time to repair

To my mind it is a great shame that two very very important and independent people like Iranians and Chinese are not patient with each others struggles and ambitions

I was talking specifically about independence in technology. If you use Western processors, you depend on them. If you use Western software, you depend on them. If your entire network infrastructure relies on Western tech, you depend on them.

Not only you depend on them, but you can be targeted easily when necessary. I think this should be the biggest lesson of Israel's shock and awe in the first day of war with Iran.
China is the ONLY country that is independent in this regard.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Look at this rant, not uncommon for an Iranian.

Iranians' opinions are shaped by their elites (political orientation) and satellite disk (West).

Compare Iran with Russia, both under sanctions, both sell cheap oil to China, both don't get weapons but commercial goods. Russia's public opinion is very positive on China, while Iran is worse than India's.

View attachment 132465

Iran may not be an ally or a friend, but the Iranian regime makes it an invaluable asset to our cause, the fact that it has been seen as an existential threat to Israel, thus keep dragging the Americans to the Forever War, is proof more than enough

China should keep offering help however we can as long as the Iranian regime stands

 

[sutton9999]

Iran may not be an ally or a friend, but the Iranian regime makes it an invaluable asset to our cause, the fact that it has been seen as an existential threat to Israel, thus keep dragging the Americans to the Forever War, is proof more than enough

China should keep offering help however we can as long as the Iranian regime stands

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[Irfan Baloch]

What sources are being counted as reliable in your mind?

View attachment 132172

thee were news earlier that Iranian pilots were already training on SU-35 jets . if the time and resources allow then Iran should go for both as a good mix.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I am thinking it will be both Sukhoi Induction and J10C

• Origionally planned was Sukhoi 35 likely getting trained
• J10C based on new emerging need, acquired from China

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

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Frankly I‘ve seen these talking points raised on Chinese social media too many times, to the point I'm beginning to suspect 'jewish propaganda' at play. "Iranians don't think high of China, or the Chinese.. blah blah blah", so what? I mean who fucking cares? Why people make it sound like we should only help those who sing praises to China? Are we that egoistic? or insecure?

I should have made my point clear enough: What makes Iran valuable to us, is its current regime! not its people, nor their opinions on China!! Do the cold calculation of national interests, not make friends, and ignore the noises, especially the anti-regime Iranian expat types you were paying attention to, their opinions couldn't be more irrelevant!