Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Deino]

Well, thanks for your long reply and slowly I get the feeling I indeed misunderstood the very first post when I stepped in this discussion and partially since we both are talking about different things (maybe again I'm misunderstanding you!)

This is the post I referred to and indeed I read it as if there would be a localised "future light designs" based on the YAK-130M2 and powered by two Saljut AL-222-25 or the afterburning version:

...
The increasing number of Yak-130 will certainly point to a possible localization of Saljut AL-222-25. The afterburning version will solve problems of IRIAF's future light designs like magic but will be stupid to waste these engines in anything other than F-5 derivatives or YAK-130M2 (full combat capable version). 2 x Afterburing Saljut AL-225 means a Kowsar size fighter now has a thrust higher than Indian Tejas, F-20 Tigershark.
...

Sorry for this, but let's do it step by step:

Please provide the source from which you "heard" that "all F-14s will be re-engined with AL-31F engines"? Any journalistic article, any news report, any official source will do.

Again, please provide the source from which you "heard" that RD-33 will be produced in iran?

I cannot since there was never one "journalistic article" but this idea was presented with very much confidence more than one in the old forum. As such I put by misunderstanding your idea to use to afterburning AI-225 into the same "box" as being as likely as these claims, the "Tejas is the best" (by some Indians) or "we will get J-35A in 2025" by some Pakistani guys.

It's an open knowledge that Iran produces (assembles?) Turbojets for its F-5 derivatives. Stop mixing hallucinations with facts.

Please provide any journalistic article/report or official source for from which you heard "reengined single-engined F-5-fighters"

I think you are hallucinating because not a single shred of journalistic report or evidence exists for what you are claiming here. I have been following Iranian military for close to ~30 years of my life, I have never heard of what you are claiming as news here.
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No-one is denying this, but again this is irrelevant to claims, a localised RD-33 would be used in a future variant aka an Iranian F-20-lookalike also claimed in the old forum.

...
I see what is happening to you, you got triggered for whatever reason, posted a personal attacking post without reading the context or checking the source that I posted before, and to cover that now you are trying to label this thread as a "News" section. I wonder what happened to the "Discussions" part in the thread title "Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions?

Here is the JOURNALISTIC NEWS REPORT I was DISCUSSING, Seems fitting for the News and Discussions thread?

I did not "hear" it or create it out of thin air, I read a published report by probably the most proven reliable insider of Iranian aviation sector (like me, another harsh critic) and I merely discussed it which somehow triggered you for whatever reason.

Please! I did not personally attack anyone, I only said - and as it seems you agree - there is currently no Russian AI-225-25F with afterburner in Russia, it would require a dramatic redesign and is as such unlikely to impossible!

And by the way ... Babak already claimed so often so much! I don't rate him really taht credible.

I doubt if you have any aviation knowledge at all. Al-222-25 is a product of RUSSIAN Salyut_Machine-Building_Association which has been manufacturing AL series engines since cold war. The engine itself is a descendent of AL-25 (later called RD-35), a Soviet product from 1970s. Ivechenko which produces it in Ukraine itself was a Soviet company so calling it a Ukrainian engine is just hilarious. Ukraine can't produce a missile engine by itself let alone a modern turbofan. All they have is inherited Soviet/Russian industry and designs.
..

Now it's me who would be offended! I know this pretty well, but it was always Ivchenko in Ukraine which was responsible in manufacturing these engines (see for China) ... that's exactly the reason why Russia is so eager to develop an indigenous solution to replace the original engine.

And here is an afterburning version of it called "AL-222-25F". Now please tell me where was I wrong?

https://armyrecognition.com/news/aerospace-news/2011/ukraine-will-provide-engine-aicraft-ai-222-25f-turbofans-for-chinese-jet-trainer-hongdu-l-15-0711111

Exactly like I posted - so maybe You forgot my post! - but this engine for the L-15B is an Ukrainian one and not a Russian one. Russia may have the design documents since the parent company was Russian, but these engines and especially the afterburning version was always Ukrainian-supplied as even more so quoted in your source!

As such, so "Now please tell me where was I wrong?" since it was exactly what I posted! Russia has no afterburner-variant available.

 

[Deino]

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Via the Chinese photographer 万全

 

[Hack-Hook]

Its a turbofan so inherently better than a turbojet for range, ideal for CAP.

wrong 2x AL222 is needed to reach the power output of a F404 without afterburner . consider that in your calculation that a single f4004 fuel use is 0.31 kg/(kgf⋅h) (23 g/(kN⋅s)) and for a single al222 its 0.66 kg/(kgf h) or more than twice as that so for two AL-222 it will be 4 time fuel consumption of the time its powered by a single f404.

now as I clearly can't see possibility of any F-404 or F412 in Iran the eastern equivalent will be RD-33(RD-99) or more exactly an RD-33 without afterburner so it can be fit inside the air-frames which incidentally provide more power than f404 while using less fuel to provide same power output
50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) vs 48.9 kN(11,000 lbf) and fuel consumption of 75 kg/(kN·h) vs 82.8 kg/(kN·h)

 

[sahureka2]

wrong 2x AL222 is needed to reach the power output of a F404 without afterburner . consider that in your calculation that a single f4004 fuel use is 0.31 kg/(kgf⋅h) (23 g/(kN⋅s)) and for a single al222 its 0.66 kg/(kgf h) or more than twice as that so for two AL-222 it will be 4 time fuel consumption of the time its powered by a single f404.

now as I clearly can't see possibility of any F-404 or F412 in Iran the eastern equivalent will be RD-33(RD-99) or more exactly an RD-33 without afterburner so it can be fit inside the air-frames which incidentally provide more power than f404 while using less fuel to provide same power output
50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) vs 48.9 kN(11,000 lbf) and fuel consumption of 75 kg/(kN·h) vs 82.8 kg/(kN·h)

perhaps he meant the AL222 turbofan comparison with the OWJ J-90/J-85 turbojet without afterburner

 

[Hack-Hook]

perhaps he meant the AL222 turbofan comparison with the OWJ J-90/J-85 turbojet without afterburner

for a single al222 its 0.66 kg/(kgf h) for a single j-85 its 0.56 kg/(kgf h) so the plane with J-85 use less fuel but you must add to the calculation the fact that a J-85 only provide 65% of the trust of Al-222 . at military trust and as the chart for power output and Fuel consumption is not linear at all sorry i cant tell if J-85 use more fuel if you lower the power output of Al-222 or they are equal or it use less fuel.

 

[Persian Gulf]

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F-5 of IRIAF seem to be getting a universal upgrade

 

[Immortals]

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[Flotilla]

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F-5 of IRIAF seem to be getting a universal upgrade

It is just me or just now surprisingly the IRIAF are being better funded for this project or Su35s ???

Is this a shift in the Defense Doctrine of the Islamic Republic?.

 

[ToddE]

It is just me or just now surprisingly the IRIAF are being better funded for this project or Su35s ???

Is this a shift in the Defense Doctrine of the Islamic Republic?.

Highly likely that Iran has not paid Russia in cash for the SUKHOI fleet otherwise 50 airframes and some 10-12 Yak-130 would cost around 10-12 Billion USD altogether if we count training, armaments, infrastructure, and maintenance. Iranian defense budget itself is 10 Billion USD, it will increase to 30-35 Billion USD next year so we may see strong conventional capabilities being built.

 

[mack8]

A nice MiG-29 picture

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On the R-77, this is another might-have-been for IRIAF, others have touched on the (very stupid and at least partially preventable imo) loss the syrian modern planes which is a whole painful discussion on itself, but since for years both Syria and Yemen had R-77, why didn't Iran at least smuggled a few tens of R-77 from these countries and integrate them on the MiG-29? Iran smuggled enough gear including very modern one to equip an army (quite literally) in Yemen, and presumably a significant quantity to Syria too, surely they could have smuggled gear out too?

And/or they could have pestered the russians to deliver R-77s and help integrate them on MiG-29, while planting stories of getting them from Syria or Yemen for plausible deniability. And if not the russians, maybe Belarus might have helped with R-77 integration (their BM upgrade i think can use R-77)

 

[mack8]

You guys need to let F-14 rest in peace. It served the country beautifully, but at a high maintenance cost to even its original creator (US spent $30K/hr to maintain F-14 in 90’s - if you adjust for inflation that’s over 50K/hr today).

Those airframes have been stressed for over 45 years now. Every time a pilot did heavy g force maneuvers it’s stress the frame. I don’t know how long you think titanium can last without degrading, but it’s not forever.

These planes need to mothballed by 2030’s. They can’t fly forever. And no it’s not worth reverse engineering this plane. It belongs to a different era of warfare.

If IRIAF gets a large number of Su-30/35s, then sure, retire the F-14. But until then it will be an uninspired thing to do for the simple reason that F-14 (and all the other types of IRIAF airframes) as of now is all that Iran have. Whatever the difficulties they must be kept flying and upgraded. Israel for all it's full US bankrolling still flies early F-15A/B if i'm not mistaken that are almost as old as IRIAF F-14s.

Plus, being a carrier fighter, the F-14 structure would be stronger than a land based fighter's, and given they never suffered the kind of carrier wear and year in IRIAF service, if properly managed their life could still be extended by one or two decades at least.

 

[Persian Gulf]

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[AmirIGM]

Incidentally, and probably known already, but new to me is that apparently back in the 90s there some talks of getting AL-31F engines for the F-14. That's one helluva what-if/could-have-been right there, iranian F-14AM with AL-31F engines, R-27 and R-73 missiles, plus the Fakkour-90.

I do know Amir proposed a similar concept recently but with mostly Su-35 avionics (Irbis radar, AL-31FN engines etc.)

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I don't know who made the picture to be honest but it was enough for me to meme it. Some people thought it was a real proposal but sadly it's just a dream.

My only contribution was to make it even more unhinged:

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[BigMela2onin]

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Seems too small to be H-20 so would be a good candidate for a tailless early 6th gen prototype.

Indeed the Russians were not so different. So the question really is why are the Chinese being treated differently? Time for creative and maybe some lateral thinking. Some practical conjecture?

As we can see there's nothing beyond the IRIAF's bad planning and inbuilt prejudices causing them to make yet another bad decision. The world is moving beyond 5th generation and we're still trying to get 4th gen fighters from Russia, whose own Su-57 is more comparable to a KF-21 than a true 5th gen. They should have cultivated a relationship with China instead, simple as that.

 

[iblini]

Seems too small to be H-20 so would be a good candidate for a tailless early 6th gen prototype.

Here is another prototype, there is a duel between two company.