Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Immortals]

And what do you have? Besides ignorance and REFUSAL to do basic research?

In what context do you mean by 'unreliability'? I will give you one example that most likely you did not considered: interference.

2003 Iraq war, Patriots vs Coalition Air Force is one example of IFF issues. Well documented. There are similar cases. Continue searching

Now you want to word play and call it whatever you like “interference” or “glitches” or “external noise”, whatever let’s you sleep at night. Be my guest. I even specifically said the IFF susceptibility to external “interference” with my EW/ECW comments when I highlighted the thought process behind its unreliability.

, there is nothing we can do regarding EXTERNAL sources of signals, whether those signals are just noise residuals from other forms of transmissions that are not of IFF transmissions, or that of deliberate interference, or that of simple volume queries.

Thank you for proving my point. All that copy and pasta for you to word play and mental gymnastics. IFF unreliability wether it be due to internal design flaws or external enemy “interference” (EW/ECW) or just normal environment interference all leads to the point that IFF is not this magical transponder you think it is.

Especially in a heavy air war against a near peer adversary and not the uncontested air space of Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan that the USAF has operated in for better part of 30 years.

I see you did not dispute the historical BVR effectiveness part of my comments either, as that has been well documented in military circles by western sources.

 

[Immortals]

Just out of curiosity, what makes you say that Chinese airforce is capable of fighting F-22 in the air?

I didn’t say China is capable of fighting F-22 in the air or not. I said China is one of the few big budget militaries that can afford an F-22 class fighter jet.

You always dismiss Russian jets, why?

I think you have me confused with someone else. I have asked for Iran to work with Russia on SU-75 and SU-35 for years.

Budget wise, design wise, technology wise, I'd say that Su 57 is the only hope against F-22

SU-57 is not made to target F-22. They are completely different fighter jets. F-22 has many advantages and would likely detect and track SU-57 far earlier than the other. SU-57 would have to stay in friendly airspace backed by air defense forces or else on neutral territory F-22 has upper hand.

Again all theoretical.

If you are asking for Iran, what is better SU-57 or SU-35, then certainly SU-57 is the most modern 4th gen+++ you can get (I don’t consider it a true 5th gen fighter). And as long as it stayed in Iranian airspace would be a serious threat to any fighter jets approaching.

in the long run however, I think SU-75 is a better solution for Iran’s airforce with a limited number of SU-35 acting as interceptors.

 

[SuperWarrior]

I didn’t say China is capable of fighting F-22 in the air or not. I said China is one of the few big budget militaries that can afford an F-22 class fighter jet.



I think you have me confused with someone else. I have asked for Iran to work with Russia on SU-75 and SU-35 for years.



SU-57 is not made to target F-22. They are completely different fighter jets. F-22 has many advantages and would likely detect and track SU-57 far earlier than the other. SU-57 would have to stay in friendly airspace backed by air defense forces or else on neutral territory F-22 has upper hand.

Again all theoretical.

If you are asking for Iran, what is better SU-57 or SU-35, then certainly SU-57 is the most modern 4th gen+++ you can get (I don’t consider it a true 5th gen fighter). And as long as it stayed in Iranian airspace would be a serious threat to any fighter jets approaching.

in the long run however, I think SU-75 is a better solution for Iran’s airforce with a limited number of SU-35 acting as interceptors.

You say things from your ass, Russian pak fa is a fifth generation warplane, nice try with your joke of 4+++.

You are saying US F-22 will detect before pak-fa, this is an assumption from your ass again, For Russia there is not stealth concept that will work.

 

[GoMig-21]

I was on that forum as well

What was your username?

You can see how this information can be manipulated especially in today’s digital and AI age.

I bet you many of the software engineers in the big-wig corpos are super busy as we speak trying to find ways to program EW software for the IFF sensors to allow the pilot to return a friendly ID to a recognized enemy. Give the latter a sense of security and then.........kaboom. I have no doubt they're busy doing something of that devious nature, just to get an edge. Heck it might already be developed and part of the supa dupa F-35's sensor suite.

People (mostly on Twitter) seem to think F-16 is an F-35 or something.

And here too. That's what started this entire debate on the last 10 pages.

Everyone in Iran would love SU-35. It’s a great defense fighter to complement Iran’s air defense teams and protect the skies.

That's what I've been saying since the beginning of time.

SU-35 is not cheap to operate

Better than the F-35 @$40k/hr and the F-22@$80K/hr. lol

You know what they say, money can't buy you happiness, but it'll buy you a plane fast enough to pull up right next to it.

Rumors were Iran had to halt its F-14 upgrade program because it was costing over $10M per plane to upgrade to a standard that was only marginally better.

Even just the maintenance. That's the primary reason for the USN retiring the Tomcat and making way for the Hornet. It's engines were starting to have way too many repetitive issues and the maintenance was overburdening. Not ideal for carrier ops.

I see you did not dispute the historical BVR effectiveness part of my comments either, as that has been well documented in military circles by western sources.

Yep, I've been singing that tune for well over 10 years now. But too many people are just way too blindly enamored by the BVR concept that they keep thinking the greater the range, the greater the PK and that is not always the case.

 

[Persian Gulf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785763782859333928

 

[tsunset]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785763782859333928

Soon to see more on Su-24 followed up by upgrade to M2 standard

Su-22, 24, are the only ones made for carrying ballistic missiles

Too bad also Rafsjani didn't get Tu-22M and Tu-16, it would have been a great platform for ALBM

 

[Persian Gulf]

Soon to see more on Su-24 followed up by upgrade to M2 standard

Su-22, 24, are the only ones made for carrying ballistic missiles

Too bad also Rafsjani didn't get Tu-22M and Tu-16, it would have been a great platform for ALBM

F-14 probably can carry ALBM too with some adjustments

Arman/Ababil is not very useful, a c. 800-1000km range ALBM would be more useful. can fly low over south Iraq and release it when closer to Israel, shortening time from launch to impact

 

[tsunset]

F-14 probably can carry ALBM too with some adjustments

Arman/Ababil is not very useful, a c. 800-1000km range ALBM would be more useful. can fly low over south Iraq and release it when closer to Israel, shortening time from launch to impact

This is one step to achieve this capability

MiG-31s that Rasfjani didn't bought would have been the perfect platform

In terms of cost effectiveness Su-24 is made for it, while F-14 on paper isn't designed to carry such missiles, this would go in a scenario like putting mim sam missiles on the F-14s

Just waiting for the Su-24 to get upgraded to normal M2 standardization

 

[Persian Gulf]

This is one step to achieve this capability

MiG-31s that Rasfjani didn't bought would have been the perfect platform

In terms of cost effectiveness Su-24 is made for it, while F-14 on paper isn't designed to carry such missiles, this would go in a scenario like putting mim sam missiles on the F-14s

Just waiting for the Su-24 to get upgraded to normal M2 standardization

I wonder how hard it would be to convert Zolfaqar to ALBM

10m long, 0.68m diameter, 4500kg launch weight

at least Raad-500 should be possible with only 1750kg launch weight and 7.5m length

 

[gambit]

Thank you for proving my point. All that copy and pasta for you to word play and mental gymnastics. IFF unreliability wether it be due to internal design flaws or external enemy “interference” (EW/ECW) or just normal environment interference all leads to the point that IFF is not this magical transponder you think it is.

What I did was proved your dishonesty. You made a broad statement without showing the readers any shred of evidence. That is misleading. Now, the readers can see the facts for themselves. No one said anything about IFF being 'magic'. That is also another bit of dishonest debating tactic: putting words into someone else's mouth.

If you charge that the IFF system and/or process is 'unreliable', it is technically important to point out where, how, and environmental factors. If there is no standard operating freq, meaning each country uses their own, then it is not a fair assessment of reliability because there is no interoperability to accurately test the system and process. If the system is unreliable at all queries traffic, then the charge is valid, if not, then the charge is invalid. Anyone can see that. But I guess not you. Let us know when your Iran come up with something better that the world will adopt.

Might as well say the car is 'unreliable' because of the driver.

Especially in a heavy air war against a near peer adversary and not the uncontested air space of Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan that the USAF has operated in for better part of 30 years.

We have been waiting for that 'near peer' guy since WW II.

I see you did not dispute the historical BVR effectiveness part of my comments either, as that has been well documented in military circles by western sources.

I do not have to address everything you said because not everything you said is worth my time.

 

[Garcia Sea]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785763782859333928

This looks strikingly similar to the Fattah-1, but judging from the size of the Su-22's wheels in the reflection, this missile's diameter is only about 30 cm.
Why would Iran make such similarly-shaped missiles with such a significant size difference? That's a head-scratcher!

 

[Lulldapull]

This Shahed 238 has now become my favorite drone. That RAM coated dark blue/ black body, thick glass nose with that glowing red FLIR/ image processor behind it is totally sinister lookin no?....like its got a mind of its own....... ...I like this thing:

 

[Immortals]

What I did was proved your dishonesty. You made a broad statement without showing the readers any shred of evidence. That is misleading. Now, the readers can see the facts for themselves. No one said anything about IFF being 'magic'. That is also another bit of dishonest debating tactic: putting words into someone else's mouth.

The readers (especially the reader it was directed to) who have an ounce of logical intelligence understood the context in which I was speaking. I type on this site on my iPhone and don’t have time to provide doctorate level references everytime I make a 2 sentence comment.

Your poor attempt at mental gymnastics and wordplay doesn’t save you from the fact that you ended up agreeing that IFF can be unreliable especially in situations I broadly mentioned. Your reasons for it is irrelevant (and debatable), but you ended up at the same conclusion.

If you charge that the IFF system and/or process is 'unreliable', it is technically important to point out where, how, and environmental factors.

Again you asked for ONE example and I provided you 2003 Patriot systems vs Coalition aircraft in Iraq military conflict. Well documented. Well known. Simple Searches would turn up more for you and their incidences occurred mostly either during peace time or against highly weakened opponents.

And yet when presented with an example you just ignored it and want to argue semantics and not address the heart of the topic.

We have been waiting for that 'near peer' guy since WW II.

I’m not sure what the point of this statement was. It’s shame that WWIII or major global conflict hasn’t come on your time schedule. Darn. Countless potential deaths and carnage that you can’t get mental enjoyment from.

But on the bright side, you have wasted trillions in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Syria. And can’t stop attacks on shipping in the Red Sea after 4 months of airstrikes on Yemen. Have an admin that is now asking China to tell Iran to tell Houthi’s to please stop and offering to drop terror designations on Houthi’s in exchange for halt of attacks.

Spending $3M on interceptors to down $20-50K drones. Great work. Lets let that national debt continue to pile up and that fractured political society divisions continue to widen between democrats, republicans, and the populists. Classic empire decay.

I do not have to address everything you said because not everything you said is worth my time.

You cannot address it because it well documented and discussed by senior military officers. It’s in military academy journals and research papers, it’s in studies conducted, it’s documented by pilots, etc etc.

Arguing BVR historical effectiveness would just cement what we already know - you are ignorant, biased, and like to miss the forest for the trees.

 

[Immortals]

What was your username?

ImmortalSoldier

I bet you many of the software engineers in the big-wig corpos are super busy as we speak trying to find ways to program EW software for the IFF sensors to allow the pilot to return a friendly ID to a recognized enemy. Give the latter a sense of security and then.........kaboom. I have no doubt they're busy doing something of that devious nature, just to get an edge. Heck it might already be developed and part of the supa dupa F-35's sensor suite.

Yes, Jamming/Interference/Signal Replication etc are all possible tactics that an advanced enemy could use on air defense squads and enemy fighter jets to trick them.

All you need to do is plant the seed of doubt for pilots and air defense crews to start doubting the information they are receiving, that alone will cause a noticeable decline in operational capability.

Yep, I've been singing that tune for well over 10 years now. But too many people are just way too blindly enamored by the BVR concept that they keep thinking the greater the range, the greater the PK and that is not always the case.

The speed difference (enemy aircraft and an A2A missile) is not enough to overcome the sheer maneuverability and options a pilot has to evade the missile and have it lose tracking at distances of 150KM, 200KM, 250KM, etc.

Maybe in the future if hypersonic A2A missiles become a thing than the enemy pilot will have much less reaction time a Mach 10+ missile that can cover 100-200KM in a blink of an eye. But by then you will likely have laser defense systems employed on 5++ or 6th gen fighter jet platforms to fight off enemy aerial attacks.

BVR is at the end of the day a tool in the toolbox. In a war where the airspace is highly contested, fog of war, interference and EW warfare on both sides, skies filled with opposing jets, it’s going to be difficult to rely on BVR or IFF. We simply have not been in such a large scale intensive conflict since the dawn of internet and cyber warfare.

 

[Mehdipersian]

This looks strikingly similar to the Fattah-1, but judging from the size of the Su-22's wheels in the reflection, this missile's diameter is only about 30 cm.
Why would Iran make such similarly-shaped missiles with such a significant size difference? That's a head-scratcher!

It is normal when a platform performs well.

Now most of Iran's solid fuel missiles are similar to Fateh 110 missile