Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Piet]

To much talk about simple matter, prompt remedy for lack of numbers and capabilities are russians and chinese, first one with licenced production other one with fast delivery, everything else is on long stick and draining water from stone.
Both will not happen due their position towards Iran considering it as junior partner at best and their own geopolitical concerns.

I agree.

Iran is really at the crossroads as far as combat a/c are concerned.

Fastest way will be to attempt to acquire surplus airframes - MiG-29's of course - and have these upgraded to -SMT standard. Hopefully in so doing also giving a nod to Iran's own aerospace industry, especially pertaining to electronics, EC/CM and radar. Weapons?

Regarding Russia and China, if Russia gets offered a face-saving deal in Ukraine that excludes Iran -Iran will be dropped like a hot coal.

China: The only chance, and this is a long one at that, is to attempt to acquire 'green' FC-1 Xiaolong's (Chinese JF-17's) from it. Green in the sense that it will be flying with the engine and other flight controls installed.

Iran will have to fill in the blanks, such a the radar, nav/coms, EC/CM's, BVR and WVR AAM's.

License production once and when there are sufficient rubber on the tarmac.

Piet

 

[mulj]

I agree.

Iran is really at the crossroads as far as combat a/c are concerned.

Fastest way will be to attempt to acquire surplus airframes - MiG-29's of course - and have these upgraded to -SMT standard. Hopefully in so doing also giving a nod to Iran's own aerospace industry, especially pertaining to electronics, EC/CM and radar. Weapons?

Regarding Russia and China, if Russia gets offered a face-saving deal in Ukraine that excludes Iran -Iran will be dropped like a hot coal.

China: The only chance, and this is a long one at that, is to attempt to acquire 'green' FC-1 Xiaolong's (Chinese JF-17's) from it. Green in the sense that it will be flying with the engine and other flight controls installed.

Iran will have to fill in the blanks, such a the radar, nav/coms, EC/CM's, BVR and WVR AAM's.

License production once and when there are sufficient rubber on the tarmac.

Piet

You are not wrong and proposing most logical solution which is not ideal but probably best possible at the moment and years ahead.
You need big numbers of airframes to develope standardized and qualitative weapon and support systems and if the mig-29 is only option it should be taken without delay as this wandering around and waiting for external conditions to be changed leads nowhere.
Question remains where to find 150 or so airworthy mig29?

 

[Persian Gulf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1826887030246162704

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I still refuse to believe that Iran between 2000-2024 has not produced a local Fighter Jet Program , in 24 years

24 years is a long time to build up at least 400 Fighter Jets , even with Sanctions

Considering they have mastered the F-5 jet from 80's , I would still imagine that knowledge attained was enough to build some formal deterrence

Any update on the Potential arrival of Fighter Jets from Russia ?

 

[Emirzad]

Something interesting is beginning to emerge to this end: - I hope that this is not against forum rules, but its the shortest way of getting the point across.

- US Air Force eyes missile defense for dispersed bases in China fight

US Air Force eyes missile defense for dispersed bases in China fight

The Air Force plans to spread out forces during a fight with China, and Gen. David Allvin wants to do more to defend dispersed bases from missile attacks.

www.defensenews.com

And:-

Swedish Air Force eyes more weapons, people to deliver ‘robust’ dispersed operations​

Swedish Air Force eyes more weapons, people to deliver 'robust' dispersed operations - Breaking Defense

Sweden’s focus on dispersed operations remains consistent with efforts to increase readiness amid Russia’s war in Ukraine, with freedom of maneuver seen as key to undermining an enemy’s plan of attack.

breakingdefense.com

If Oghab-44 is used as a suppository to guard against initial massive pre-emptive strikes against IAIAF assets, and thereafter dispersed to off-base ops centers, then this would make sense to me.

Also, the example of SAIRAN producing everything from OTH radar - PESA et al (and now surface wave radar) but seemingly cannot produce an ASEA for Kowsar's radar. It would be somewhat amusing if it was not so inconsistent with every-day reasoning.

Before I go:- You had also posted that ... Local AIM-7M equivalent "Arash-Light BVR' was shown twice ... .

I have the image posted to : - https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iriaf-news-and-discussions.358559/page-548 , but nada about the other one. Do you perhaps have a link ... .

Thanks

Piet

SAIRAN has produced 2 airborne fighter radars so far that we know of, Bayyenat-I and II for F-4E/D Dowran and Kowsar, with ~100 KM and 94 KM tracking range for fighters in a class of F-16's RCS. From what was shown about the Dowran in a Kish air show and Kowsar's radar which is ditto of Grifo-346 they are quite modern systems on par with any 4th generation system. Transitioning into AESA platforms is not a big deal for SAIRAN if money is put in the project. Technologically speaking, this corp is one of the global giants in the field considering how modern and highly efficient the IADS of Iran has become over the years. Can we name a single regional company that can rival SAIRAN? series of OTH, datalink grid, AESA/PESA/airborne, naval FCR, EW etc anything one can name, they have made it. Rationally speaking they can yield out a Grifo-E, CAPTOR like system without any problem.

AIM-7E2 body was shown twice in 2022/2023 once as just a project and another time as "ARASH BVR". In an older forum, I posted the details. Like Maghsoud it will die too perhaps, otherwise with an ARH+ECM combination and a new motor it can be a modern light BVR with ~100 KM range. Perfect for CAP flights of local fighter. Babaei Missile Industry that produced Fakour installed a SARH/ARH (???) + ECM package on it that worked even in heavy jamming envoironments while seeker was locked on stealth or minimal RCS Shahed Flying wing UCAVs. This same group produces solid motors for Fakours, Azaraksh, SHORADS/HIMADS etc ... For them making a local R-77, AIM120 is not beyond capability either. They showed a new all-aspect imaging seeker on Azarkash, one version of the missile had 4 fins moving independently. These people are not stupid.

IRIAF has no $$$ allocated to it compared to other forces otherwise technology is there.

>> Basically the same as you. Nothing can last forever. But prioritizing one or more weapon systems over another begs the obvious Q? Is this serving my country - or my pocket. No pun intended.


>>How on earth (again?). You nix a state of the art BVR AAM that could at least have given you a fighting chance against enemies more numerous and modern. Its like nixing missiles such as Sayyad-4B or Mehran-2 and make as if nothing had happened.

Piet

No aircraft except for F-14 can lift a heavy BVR missile like Fakour-90, Maghsoud. No F-14 can fire them except for F-14AM. The F-14A/AM fleet is no longer viable for IRIAF to keep so they are retiring if we go by how quickly the QRA/FMC airframes are vanishing. IRIAF has 42 flyable airframes out of which barely half are on FMC status now. They do not have the money to keep the fighter flyable let alone upgraded to be relevant in modern combat. With them gone, the Maghsoud is no longer needed because SU-35S with supposed R-37 delivery can pick up this task of long-range interceptions/thwarting the enemy. I am assuming the SU-35S deal won't be Effed by the Russians.

Very good. This opens up a second line of attack re:-the availability of suitable engines.
So, an alternative to RD-33++ in more ways than one.

Agree 100% with a Grifo-346 plus ASEA array = -E. Admittedly though I am partial to ASEA FCR's. Also, the more that assets spread the good stuff around via data-linking, the more robust the entire network and all of the participants, will be.

No argument here.

We have one published source for Iranian discussion with Russians for licensed production of Saljut AL-222-25 Turbofan (for Yasin/Kowsar???). Iran already is using the non-Afterburning version of this turbofan in YAK-131, so there could be something. Who knows, Iranian leadership cares very less about IRIAF and Russia is no friend of Iran either.

 

[Emirzad]

I agree.

Iran is really at the crossroads as far as combat a/c are concerned.

Fastest way will be to attempt to acquire surplus airframes - MiG-29's of course - and have these upgraded to -SMT standard. Hopefully in so doing also giving a nod to Iran's own aerospace industry, especially pertaining to electronics, EC/CM and radar. Weapons?

Regarding Russia and China, if Russia gets offered a face-saving deal in Ukraine that excludes Iran -Iran will be dropped like a hot coal.

China: The only chance, and this is a long one at that, is to attempt to acquire 'green' FC-1 Xiaolong's (Chinese JF-17's) from it. Green in the sense that it will be flying with the engine and other flight controls installed.

Iran will have to fill in the blanks, such a the radar, nav/coms, EC/CM's, BVR and WVR AAM's.

License production once and when there are sufficient rubber on the tarmac.

Piet

Russia is not allowing SU-35 or MIG-29 to be opened up by Iran for anything domestic upon them. No one does that to 4th generation Russian aircrafts except for China which is too powerful for Russia to control.

Pathway towards revival

- Import SU-35S+ Khibiny ECM +R37 (24 Initially coming)
-Purchase additional 40 MIG-29 airframes (total ~62) and get the -MIG-29 upgraded to SMT/M2 standards
-Kowsar-II with everything local, get the AL-222-25 Afterburner licensed production (target 100 x 4+ gen fighters)
-F-14AM fleet should be overhauled, upgraded to launch ARH Maghsoud + ALBM, and modeled after MIG-31BM operationality in Ukraine theatre (Total 40+) otherwise retire the Shahi truck and get more SU-35S.

This is a practical and strong force to fight within and at the periphery of IADS. Iran meanwhile can focus on 5th generation.

 

[muhammed45]

To much talk about simple matter, prompt remedy for lack of numbers and capabilities are russians and chinese, first one with licenced production other one with fast delivery, everything else is on long stick and draining water from stone.
Both will not happen due their position towards Iran considering it as junior partner at best and their own geopolitical concerns.

We are aware of it hence feeling the need for a locally developed fighter jet.

Big point, Iran will never place an order for a large fleet of foreign built aircrafts. When Russians begin to evaluate the cost-benefit issue considering that making a deal with an Islamic revolutionary country will surely jeopardize their relationship with most of western countries, eventually they rather prefer to have a big deal with Iran with no transfer of technology not even in the level of maintenance. They rather prefer to see Iran at its most desperate situation.

Fortunately we are not that desperate for fighter jets esp after investing in missile and drone technology. When you have an independent foreign policy, you would have to tolerate its consequences.

I assure you, when the time comes, huge investment will be considered for air force. Iran is a country that dveleoped its reactors when Russians tried to play both sides

 

[Piet]

You are not wrong and proposing most logical solution which is not ideal but probably best possible at the moment and years ahead.
You need big numbers of airframes to develope standardized and qualitative weapon and support systems and if the mig-29 is only option it should be taken without delay as this wandering around and waiting for external conditions to be changed leads nowhere.
Question remains where to find 150 or so airworthy mig29?

Just so.

Piet.

 

[Piet]

Nowhere in my post ...

>Taking it to 2-3 feet with further elongation to add more space for avionics/fuel etc is nothing extraordinary or beyond the reach of HESA. They can even add a dorsal spine for the avionics bay and conformal tanks for range enhancement.

>> I cannot help but being impatient until such a fighter is unveiled.

The manned Combat Aviation sector in Iran is the worst in almost all defence branches. The irony is that while other branches such as Missiles both BM/CM, Airdefence, UCAVs, radars, SLVs, etc and even navy was making strides the combat aviation sector was regressing.

While the situation seems bleak it is not that worst either. IRIAF despite all this mismanagement has produced some very commendable results over the years:

1) Without foriegn power's help or collaboration, the fighter fleet kept on going. Complicated platforms like F-14A or MIG-29 are not easy to keep airborne without the help of their manufacturers but through a large and robust local industry, the system kept going. Even if the black market option was used sometimes then its still praiseworthy. In the case of few platforms, the local upgradation programs translated into enhanced capabilities as well e.g. the upgraded F-4E/D "Dowran" squadrons can sink any conventional navy's surface fleet with their ALCM+PGM attacks in combination with IRGC's AShCM/AShBM/UCAV packages. Upgraded F-14AM's can thwart even an F-15 from 150 KM away using local BVRs "Fakour", the same plane can launch a mean imaging all aspect WVR weapon with HOBS matching R-73. Locally built Kowsar can become part of the UCAV fleet and IADS of radars/SAM batteries through datalinking etc. IRGC's SU-22M4 can launch ALBMs while taking target cues through datalinks. Its not much but it is not nothing.

2) The capability to design and induct has been demonstrated in case of local PGMs, long-range ARH/SARH BVR, local imaging all aspect WVR, modern airborne Fire Control Radars, avionics, local ECM/ECCM packages, flight computers, local turbojets etc

3) All the required ingredients are there, its just the will of the leadership to put in money and good managers (may be from IRGC) the same way they did for Aeropsace, naval etc sectors. Once we get going in combat aviation sector, IRIAF will become in combat aviation what IRGC's aerospace force is in missile power.

> 3) All the required ingredients are there, its just the will of the leadership to put in money and good managers (may be from IRGC) the same way they did for Aeropsace, naval etc sectors. Once we get going in combat aviation sector, IRIAF will become in combat aviation what IRGC's aerospace force is in missile power.

>> 3) I just wonder. With the IRCG branded by the US internationally, would it not be more logical for it to function as a power behind the IRIAF thrown. Particularly with possible exports in mind.

Piet

Russia is not allowing SU-35 or MIG-29 to be opened up by Iran for anything domestic upon them. No one does that to 4th generation Russian aircrafts except for China which is too powerful for Russia to control.

Pathway towards revival

- Import SU-35S+ Khibiny ECM +R37 (24 Initially coming)
-Purchase additional 40 MIG-29 airframes (total ~62) and get the -MIG-29 upgraded to SMT/M2 standards
-Kowsar-II with everything local, get the AL-222-25 Afterburner licensed production (target 100 x 4+ gen fighters)
-F-14AM fleet should be overhauled, upgraded to launch ARH Maghsoud + ALBM, and modeled after MIG-31BM operationality in Ukraine theatre (Total 40+) otherwise retire the Shahi truck and get more SU-35S.

This is a practical and strong force to fight within and at the periphery of IADS. Iran meanwhile can focus on 5th generation.

>Russia is not allowing SU-35 or MIG-29 to be opened up by Iran for anything domestic upon them.

>>This is really scary. Will the availability of spares be assured if Iran runs out of these to keep its SU-35 (and-29's) in good condition? Especially in times of conflict.

>>I'm sure the IRIAF do not want a repeat of searching high and low for spares as they have to do with their F-14's.

Piet

 

[Piet]

Russia is not allowing SU-35 or MIG-29 to be opened up by Iran for anything domestic upon them. No one does that to 4th generation Russian aircrafts except for China which is too powerful for Russia to control.

Pathway towards revival

- Import SU-35S+ Khibiny ECM +R37 (24 Initially coming)
-Purchase additional 40 MIG-29 airframes (total ~62) and get the -MIG-29 upgraded to SMT/M2 standards
-Kowsar-II with everything local, get the AL-222-25 Afterburner licensed production (target 100 x 4+ gen fighters)
-F-14AM fleet should be overhauled, upgraded to launch ARH Maghsoud + ALBM, and modeled after MIG-31BM operationality in Ukraine theatre (Total 40+) otherwise retire the Shahi truck and get more SU-35S.

This is a practical and strong force to fight within and at the periphery of IADS. Iran meanwhile can focus on 5th generation.

The above is logical to me. SU-35's will have to be supplemented by a follow-on order. -62 MiG-29's, with a targeted 100 x 4th gen fighter will be a bonus. I assume that these will be Kowsar-II's.

Whatever F-14's could be salvaged will serve as a re-enforcement of SU-35 in an air-superiority role.

Then, do not disregard the Yak-130's in an point defence role.

Piet

 

[Emirzad]

Fortunately we are not that desperate for fighter jets esp after investing in missile and drone technology. When you have an independent foreign policy, you would have to tolerate its consequences.

This is the false sense of security we are living in right now. Who could have predicted 10-15 years ago that one day IRGC's installations will come under regular IAF's attacks in Levant or that IAF will dare to get into Iraqi airspace to attack Iranian land with ALBM? They have escalated to direct military attacks on Iranian soil using their airforce + assassinations and sabotages and "we are not that desperate for fighter jets"? Since when has Iranian blood become so cheap that our response to Israeli bombing of IRGC's bases in Levant or on Iranian soil will just be press releases?

I assure you, when the time comes, huge investment will be considered for air force. Iran is a country that dveleoped its reactors when Russians tried to play both sides

A huge investment in IRIAF was made already when IAIO was upgraded to the point that these people could manufacture an upgraded F-5E in the early to mid 90s from scratch, the Azarakhsh fighter under Project Silk Route I could rival the capabilities of a MIG-21-93. The majority of countries around Iran in that time could not even produce the fuselage of a fighter jet on their own let alone create a fighter at home with local copies of weapons and avionics. The government was blindly putting money in the Aerospace sector but because of corrupt and stupid commanders, the real capabilities were overshadowed by mismanaged parallel projects and propoganda. These stunts and lies of few overshadowed the real domestic capability IAIO achieved in this timeline that it can produce a local AWACS/Maritime petrol, a local 4.0 gen fighter with its own LIFT/AT, a local attack heli, MALE/HALE UCAVs, weaponry, avionics etc. Now that the capability is achieved, the government is no longer allocating money to these people because the same money given to IRGC can result in some iron dome dodging MaRV-MRBM or a Cruise missile.

The real culprit is the culture of political appointments in IRIAF, even if budget of IRIAF is increased to 2.5 Bln USD a year the force will still remain behind other branches of military because of incompetency at administrative levels. IRIAF needs a surgery done by IRGC.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

It's quite incredible to read things that border on the ridiculous!

If you think that the new Kowsars are generation 4 then, you have no sense of analysis. I am very impatient to see the big announcement grouping new Kowsars armed with surprises.

The new Kosar is a mix of generation 4+, 4++ and 5th generation elements and it is quite easy to understand.

- New AESA type radar
- RCS lowered because of an anti-radiation paint, I talked about it with a source on the other forum. An Iranian general had said that the RCS of the Kowsar was made weaker 2 years ago.

- Communication with artificial intelligence element to communicate with drones.

- New bomb, missile, gliding bomb, different function pods.

- If we read between the lines, it seems that the Kowsar will be able to launch drones, this configuration is likely to cause a lot of talk.

Nothing to do here with a generation 4 aircraft, Kowsar becomes a unique aircraft that mixes the categories of 4, 4+, 4++ and 5th generation.

To my knowledge, no 5th generation aircraft launches drones from its belly.

The f-313 drone and manned aircraft version will confirm Iran's surprising technological advances.

The myth of the underfunded IRIAF will soon be pulverized

If Iran is able to develop new technology for the F-7 aircraft as demonstrated in 2018 then imagine the Kowsar today

 

[Emirzad]

Can we curb this troll from posting BS in a serious thread? Why are we producing such children who prefer to hide behind self-boosting and meaningless propoganda instead of facing reality? We have a formidable defense as a nation in Missiles, UCAVS, Navy, Space, Air-defence/IADS, etc I say we do not need this propoganda when it comes to IRIAF. Real Achievements of the Iranian combat aviation sector are higher than any country in the region without an ounce of outside help, I can list a few of those things as examples. It's just about increasing the budget and getting rid of corruption/political appointments in the end and IRIAF can rise to the level of our Aerospace force because domestic capability, heritage, etc is there in this force.

During IMF days when stupid IRIAF commanders were announcing "Mass Productions" every day these propoganda children were learning the art of propagating a false sense of achievements perhaps and now they are here, telling us about 5th generation Kowsars and 6th generation Qahers shooting AI-controlled Missiles. Its funny and sad at the same time.

 

[Immortals]

Can we curb this troll from posting BS in a serious thread? Why are we producing such children who prefer to hide behind self-boosting and meaningless propoganda instead of facing reality? We have a formidable defense as a nation in Missiles, UCAVS, Navy, Space, Air-defence/IADS, etc I say we do not need this propoganda when it comes to IRIAF. Real Achievements of the Iranian combat aviation sector are higher than any country in the region without an ounce of outside help, I can list a few of those things as examples. It's just about increasing the budget and getting rid of corruption/political appointments in the end and IRIAF can rise to the level of our Aerospace force because domestic capability, heritage, etc is there in this force.

During IMF days when stupid IRIAF commanders were announcing "Mass Productions" every day these propoganda children were learning the art of propagating a false sense of achievements perhaps and now they are here, telling us about 5th generation Kowsars and 6th generation Qahers shooting AI-controlled Missiles. Its funny and sad at the same time.

Just ignore him. He is delusional. Fanboy of the biggest order.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

Hey Dr Mason

You are not the one who makes the law here and for propaganda, you are made a lot. Just for many Kowsar built, you made do with a dusty Wikipedia page. You want to influence the moderators telling you that YOU, you tell the truth, YOU do the best analysis but it is completely false!

Your budget business for the IRIAF is pure speculation and does not match the facts. The sadness is to think you are more informed than others by reading Wikipedia pages. What I say here from the other forum, I strongly assume it. I follow the Iranian military affairs of 2013. I have more than 1255 photos in the bank, some videos, articles, so stop thinking that you are better than everyone else. You have nothing to do with a PeeD that I liked