Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Emirzad]

A recent pic of the upgraded F-4E/D "Dowran". The program included extensive airframe and engine overhauls along with installation of Bayyenat-I Pulse-Doppler PESA radar. With its ~700 T/R module Antenna, it can track aerial fighters at ranges up to ~100-150 KM. Dowran can integrate Fakour-90 but the G-Limit reduces to 3.5 which makes such a large RCS itself vulnerable. The upgrade also included onboard ECM = RWR+Jammers while it can also carry external ECM pods (ALQ-119 based Shahin) for additional e-warfare.

For ground strike, Dowran can deploy 8.5 Tons of Sat/EO/TV/IIR/Laser guided PGMs on 9 (18 with multirails) external hardpoints and 2 x LACM upto 750 km. For maritime strikes, Dowran can launch 2 x Ghader Sea-Skimming AShCM with a range of 330 KM.

Considering Iran has an F-4E/D rebuilding assembly line that can massively pull back the hours on the airframe, and how versatile this airframe is as an attack aircraft, it will be foolish to retire it unless we get 150+ SU-35S (stupid to even think). We know 63 airframes are FMC and some 20+ are just lying around. If all can be overhauled and upgraded then suddenly the we get a strong strike force.

Potential upgrades

- 80 x Airframes, overhauled+refurbished
- Radar Bayyenaat-I gets AESA antenna
- Datalink with fighters, UCAVs & IADS (same as Kowsar)
- Integrate local AIM-7 "Arash" and Azaraksh HOBS for BVR+WVR.
- Integrate SDB PGMs for multirail launch.
- Integrate Abu-Mahdi AShCM (1000 KM) & Paveh LACM (1650 KM)
- Integrate ALBM that can gain a lofted Apogee for range.

Every airframe counts in the end and few aircraft available to IRIAF for purchase can match the attack capabilities of F-4E/D.

 

[Piet]

Some missiles passing through and hitting targets are not deterrents. They will become deterrent if Iran becomes an openly nuclear armed state.



Iraqi airspace can become a major problem for Iran because IAF and Western allies have long-ranged SOWs and ALBMs. They can target southern Iranian infrastructure and military hotspots from far away from the Iranian airspace. Our IADS is strong as hell but it can not fight a war beyond 300 KM away from Iranian border. We can not operate these Mobile HIMAD units in Iraq either unless the Iraqi militias or the military itself is armed with these layers of air-defense and are trained on them which is just not feasible. Long-range aerial interception or even a replicated Tit for Tat attack is the only way to cover this vulnerability. Post F-14, no fighter can do this job even if we get MIG-29 upgraded to SMT standard.

The current F-14A/AM fleet itself is not that capable unless they spend some ~1 Billion USD on 42 airframes to bring them to FMC (Full Mission Capable) status armed with modern weapons. Again not feasible considering how hard it is to maintain and operate this airframe. Hence, the fleet is going to be retired it seems in favor of the incoming SU-35S. With Khibiny ECM and R-37+R-73 SU-35S can replace Tomcat easily. If Iranian military strategists were smart enough to have learnt something from the Ukraine theatre, they would turn the Iranian F-14 fleet to MIG-31BM a strategic force to act along with SU-35S just like how Russians use MIG-31BM with the Flanker fleet. If 42 airframes can become armed to teeth FMC machines for 1 Billion USD then so be it, the same people wasted 9 x F-5 airframes on Azarakhsh and Saeghe program. But IRIAF decision makers are highly corrupt and incompetent people.

Nuclear weapon possession is like carrion. It attracts carnivores. The reaction to such a possession by Iran will attract all the wrong types, internationally. One can only imagine the uproar. Best to stay mum, but not too mum.

I agree. The only way that the enemy can be attacked beyond IADS coverage of say ~300+km, will be by F-14, MiG-31 & SU-35's firing VLR-AAM's from the edge of this radar coverage, before ducking back into the relative safety of it.

A 'lighter' future, modern IRIAF fighter, should be able to track targets at say 200km and fire 150km-capable BVRAAM's. Maximum possible engagement range.

However, maximum-range engagements, although uncommon, should only be undertaken when an Iranian Cooperative Engagement Capability, is operating. This implies that the necessary hard and software are installed, as required, and working seamlessly.

Piet

 

[Emirzad]

I agree. The only way that the enemy can be attacked beyond IADS coverage of say ~300+km, will be by F-14, MiG-31 & SU-35's firing VLR-AAM's from the edge of this radar coverage, before ducking back into the relative safety of it.

Such powerful machines can even go out of the IADS to engage incoming enemy (IAF over Iraq or Saudi scenario) and then run back or disperse. They have the thrust, ranges, Radar+BVR package to do so. Light fighters, no matter how upgraded they are electronically, can't do the same because of physical limitations.

Delay in SU-35S deal was Russian reluctance to supply R-37 and Khibiny ECM. Without these two SU-35S is a vanilla Flanker (actual name SU-27M). But with R-37+Khibiny it becomes a total candidate to fill the F-14's slot.

A 'lighter' future, modern IRIAF fighter, should be able to track targets at say 200km and fire 150km-capable BVRAAM's. Maximum possible engagement range.

I would rather have that plane have local AESA, HMD slaved HOBS, and stronger e-warfare suit first than an LR-BVR because a light fighter will perform CAPs within IADS, its job will rarely be to go out or operate on the periphery of IADS where it needs long-range interception capabilities. Currently, MIG-29 (if SMT'ed) and Kowsar (if fully armed) can do this job. In the future, they will need low RCS wingmen.

However, maximum-range engagements, although uncommon, should only be undertaken when an Iranian Cooperative Engagement Capability, is operating. This implies that the necessary hard and software are installed, as required, and working seamlessly.

Piet

"Reinforced Learning"

 

[jauk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1832778072765981176

 

[Flotilla]

A recent pic of the upgraded F-4E/D "Dowran". The program included extensive airframe and engine overhauls along with installation of Bayyenat-I Pulse-Doppler PESA radar. With its ~700 T/R module Antenna, it can track aerial fighters at ranges up to ~100-150 KM. Dowran can integrate Fakour-90 but the G-Limit reduces to 3.5 which makes such a large RCS itself vulnerable. The upgrade also included onboard ECM = RWR+Jammers while it can also carry external ECM pods (ALQ-119 based Shahin) for additional e-warfare.

For ground strike, Dowran can deploy 8.5 Tons of Sat/EO/TV/IIR/Laser guided PGMs on 9 (18 with multirails) external hardpoints and 2 x LACM upto 750 km. For maritime strikes, Dowran can launch 2 x Ghader Sea-Skimming AShCM with a range of 330 KM.

Considering Iran has an F-4E/D rebuilding assembly line that can massively pull back the hours on the airframe, and how versatile this airframe is as an attack aircraft, it will be foolish to retire it unless we get 150+ SU-35S (stupid to even think). We know 63 airframes are FMC and some 20+ are just lying around. If all can be overhauled and upgraded then suddenly the we get a strong strike force.

Potential upgrades

- 80 x Airframes, overhauled+refurbished
- Radar Bayyenaat-I gets AESA antenna
- Datalink with fighters, UCAVs & IADS (same as Kowsar)
- Integrate local AIM-7 "Arash" and Azaraksh HOBS for BVR+WVR.
- Integrate SDB PGMs for multirail launch.
- Integrate Abu-Mahdi AShCM (1000 KM) & Paveh LACM (1650 KM)
- Integrate ALBM that can gain a lofted Apogee for range.

Every airframe counts in the end and few aircraft available to IRIAF for purchase can match the attack capabilities of F-4E/D.

The main problem it is, again, the engine.
Even if IRIAF via MODAFL or any other subsidiary industries can overhaul the airframe and electronics (even weaponry) of the F4, you will always have the bottleneck of the limited lifespan of the engines.
I am confident that IRIAF have enough resources to import some or even many smuggled engines of other countries. But you will always have the same problem. Any south korean, turkish, greek or egyptian F4 will always very limited flying hours.

 

[jauk]

The main problem it is, again, the engine.
Even if IRIAF via MODAFL or any other subsidiary industries can overhaul the airframe and electronics (even weaponry) of the F4, you will always have the bottleneck of the limited lifespan of the engines.
I am confident that IRIAF have enough resources to import some or even many smuggled engines of other countries. But you will always have the same problem. Any south korean, turkish, greek or egyptian F4 will always very limited flying hours.

Again, there will never be a conventional Iranian AF. Ever. How many decades must pass for people to get this simple and obvious concept?

The train left the station decades ago. The future is unmanned. Period.

But undoubtedly the Lego set conversations will continue for another few decades, usurping time and screen space, while the real world moves on.

 

[Emirzad]

The main problem it is, again, the engine.
Even if IRIAF via MODAFL or any other subsidiary industries can overhaul the airframe and electronics (even weaponry) of the F4, you will always have the bottleneck of the limited lifespan of the engines.
I am confident that IRIAF have enough resources to import some or even many smuggled engines of other countries. But you will always have the same problem. Any south korean, turkish, greek or egyptian F4 will always very limited flying hours.

Having fully functioning or overhauled J79s (particularly J79-GE-17C) is not that big of a problem for Iran considering how many F-4E/Ds survived the war and are not in use, also other nations' retired ones are just lying around for spares in the black market. OWJ industrial complex, which is responsible for maintaining/upgrading the Phantom fleet, does an extensive overhaul of J79-GE-17C. I would not be surprised if they can even manufacture some critical parts of it now. With Iran it's all about the will of the leadership at the end, the same country can make S-400 equivalent at home or a borderline solid-fueled ICBM so why not some % of J79 which Israelis could manufacture in 80s at home?

The issue is the utility of F-4E/D as a dedicated strike platform. I do not consider them to have any A2A role even after the radar/ECM upgradation because of their inherently huge RCS and their struggle with Fakour-90.

But their maritime and land striking capability is very impressive with 8.5 tons of PGMs and LACM/AShCM upto 750 KM (MTOW of 28 Tons). A fully upgraded F-4E/D Dowran is as capable as the Chinese JH-7 and we have around ~80 of the airframes in Iran. A fully armed, upgraded fleet is a huge threat to any navy in and around the Persian Gulf. Unless we get SU-30SM2/35S in good numbers this fleet needs to survive and thrive to work in conjunction with IRGC's missile strike capability. An air-launched PGM/CM is harder to react to compared to a ground-launched one from a distance. The utility of attack jets is going to become more important because MALE UCAVs have failed to match the performance and are shot down in bulk unless we enter the jet-powered larger MALE UCAV age with MTOW>15-18 tons atleast.

Or leadership can just increase the Sukhoi order, get MIGs upgraded and forget the rest.

 

[Mr Iran Eye]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1720015147668852767

 

[Piet]

Such powerful machines can even go out of the IADS to engage incoming enemy (IAF over Iraq or Saudi scenario) and then run back or disperse. They have the thrust, ranges, Radar+BVR package to do so. Light fighters, no matter how upgraded they are electronically, can't do the same because of physical limitations.

>>It probably depends on the range to target, type of target i.e. dug in or spread out >>such as Iran's missile 'farms' for instance. Then the weapons that would be required >> to do the job.

Delay in SU-35S deal was Russian reluctance to supply R-37 and Khibiny ECM. Without these two SU-35S is a vanilla Flanker (actual name SU-27M). But with R-37+Khibiny it becomes a total candidate to fill the F-14's slot.

>>Did Russia agree to supply R-37 and Khibiny? If so, this would be a big win. Imagine, >the AIDS and AD covering attacking F-14's for at least the first 200 - 300km from their >>bases. Add R-37 to this and the interception/disruption of SU-35 increase to >>400km- >500km. Even further when going outside of these coverage ranges.

I would rather have that plane have local AESA, HMD slaved HOBS, and stronger e-warfare suit first than an LR-BVR because a light fighter will perform CAPs within IADS, its job will rarely be to go out or operate on the periphery of IADS where it needs long-range interception capabilities. Currently, MIG-29 (if SMT'ed) and Kowsar (if fully armed) can do this job. In the future, they will need low RCS wingmen.

>>SU-35 with a local AESA, HMD slaved HOBS, and stronger e-warfare suit first than an >>LR-BVR. If this refers to such an aircraft with R-37 and Khibiny, it would be an >>interdiction aircraft with a lot of promise.

>>The same for Mig-29 SMT and a suitability loaded Kowsar. Which at this time, would >>presumably be approaching a first upgrade, now carrying BVR missiles, first >>upgrade >avionics and E-Warfare suite and RCS reduction technology where this is applicable.

>>Agree. When I look at fighters such as the Tejas and JF-17 Thunder, I see lighter >>medium range and armed aircraft for whatever tasks these are suited for. Even in >>air-to-ground and anti-ship rolls.

>Like so:- two examples

​

>>Tejas Mk1A; L = 13.2m; 3 500kg on 8 -11 possible hardpoints.

>>Each inboard pylon has a weight-bearing capacity of 1 200kg.

>>The ‘lightweight’ BrahMos (NG) has a Length = 6M, Weight= 1597kg, and a range equal to or more than 350km. It has a 200-300kg conventional warhead.

Pakistan Equips JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jets with Nuclear-Capable Ra'ad Cruise Missiles

Pakistan Equips JF-17 Thunder Fighter Jets with Nuclear-Capable Ra'ad Cruise Missiles

armyrecognition.com

>>The JF-17 Thunder Block-III with one or two Ra,ad (Hatf 8) ALCM's . This missile has a >>Length =4.85 m, Weight= 1 100kg, and a range of 450km. It has a 450k g conventional >warhead.

Source: - https://www.google.com/search?q=BraHmos+NG+missile+specs&sca.​

"Reinforced Learning"

>>It can be seen as such if I had correctly summed up its context.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1832778072765981176

View attachment 63820

>>Very nice also.

>>Really a world of possibilities awaits.

>>Piet.

 

[Emirzad]

Iran should never ever give up on Fakour-90 or its upgraded Maghsoud Long range BVR missiles.

Look at Americans, using SM-6 SAM as A2A BVR weapon with 250 KM range along side AIM-120D. BVR is not for kill, its for thwarting enemy at distance, ruining the enemy's attack mission esp if you are operating from within the IADS. A thwarted incoming enemy at BVR ranges now now has to pull countermeasures, maneuvers to dodge the BVR which exposes them to IADS.

Which also begs the question, can Sayyad-3/4 be converted into such A2A weapon? SM-6 and Sayyad-4 have similar performance so why not? We have (and are getting) powerful large fighters that can carry them.

I know years back there was talk of 9-dey missile turning into a lighter long range BVR weapon. Such a missile will be marvel considering it is lighter and can take track info from aircraft's IRST+Radar, probably will reach 150 KM easily. Decades back there was a test of integrating SM-1 on F-4.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sukhoi , upgrade is a step forward no doubt .20-40 such planes would balance up Iranian Airforce a bit

F-4 Upgrade is quite impressive, new Radar and Weapon system
certainly adds more depth to Iranian Airforce

• F-14 - 40 Units
• F-5 - 60 Units
• Mig 29 - 30 Units
• J-7 - 24 Units

Now F-4 - 60 to 80 Units (As reported by someone above in post)

A new radar , just enhances capabilities positively even in older machine


Iran should increase the J-7 count surprised that china has not sold any fighter jet inventory beyond the 24 units

 

[Emirzad]

Sukhoi , upgrade is a step forward no doubt .20-40 such planes would balance up Iranian Airforce a bit

F-4 Upgrade is quite impressive, new Radar and Weapon system
certainly adds more depth to Iranian Airforce

• F-14 - 40 Units
• F-5 - 60 Units
• Mig 29 - 30 Units
• J-7 - 24 Units

Total Airframe strength (Full mission capable FMC, Quick Reaction Alert QRA number may differ)

- 24 x SU-35S (Incoming)

- 42 x F-14A/AM (AM can fire the powerful ARH+ECM Fakour-90 Long range BVR).

- 22 x Mig-29 9.12, supposed to undergo SMT upgrade

- 72 x F-5E/F, out of which 24 are confirmed to be made from scratch or extensively re-built + upgraded to Kowsar-I standard.

- 62 x F-4 E/D, some of which are "Dowran" upgraded.

- 30 x SU-24MK, supposed to be upgraded to MK2 version.

- 44 x J-7N, Project "Erfanian" existed to convert them to FTC-2000G standard with with Kowsar-I avionics and weapon Package.

- 22 x Mirage F1Q/EQ, Project "Habibi" exists to upgrade them with F-4E/D Dowran package including Fakour-90 BVR

- 42 x SU-22M3/M4 out of which 10 underwent extensive upgrade by IRGC, they are more capable than F-4E/D Dowran in long range PGM/SOW strike.

- 100s x Karrar UCAV with A2A HOBS capability

- World's 3rd Largest MALE/HALE/ISTAR UCAV fleet

Now F-4 - 60 to 80 Units (As reported by someone above in post)

A new radar , just enhances capabilities positively even in older machine

Iran could should at least increase the J-7 count surprised that china has not sold any fighter jet inventory

The focus is on IADS which 2nd to none in the region and improving day by day.

https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...s-news-and-discussions.60/page-31#post-322063

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

1-2 Squadron of Sukhoi will certain boost the Iranian Airforce profile a bit

The Surface to air capabilities are quite good , actually they have great combination of these missiles and radars


Hopefully we will hear good news about Iran's new Sukhoi Fleet

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Those anti ship , missiles , absolutely vital

Technically Iran does not even have to use their airforce that much
In theory

Always great to learn about latest stuff happening in Iran's Technology side , quite educated people Iranians

 

[strateger]

A recent pic of the upgraded F-4E/D "Dowran". The program included extensive airframe and engine overhauls along with installation of Bayyenat-I Pulse-Doppler PESA radar. With its ~700 T/R module Antenna, it can track aerial fighters at ranges up to ~100-150 KM. Dowran can integrate Fakour-90 but the G-Limit reduces to 3.5 which makes such a large RCS itself vulnerable. The upgrade also included onboard ECM = RWR+Jammers while it can also carry external ECM pods (ALQ-119 based Shahin) for additional e-warfare.

For ground strike, Dowran can deploy 8.5 Tons of Sat/EO/TV/IIR/Laser guided PGMs on 9 (18 with multirails) external hardpoints and 2 x LACM upto 750 km. For maritime strikes, Dowran can launch 2 x Ghader Sea-Skimming AShCM with a range of 330 KM.

Considering Iran has an F-4E/D rebuilding assembly line that can massively pull back the hours on the airframe, and how versatile this airframe is as an attack aircraft, it will be foolish to retire it unless we get 150+ SU-35S (stupid to even think). We know 63 airframes are FMC and some 20+ are just lying around. If all can be overhauled and upgraded then suddenly the we get a strong strike force.

Potential upgrades

- 80 x Airframes, overhauled+refurbished
- Radar Bayyenaat-I gets AESA antenna
- Datalink with fighters, UCAVs & IADS (same as Kowsar)
- Integrate local AIM-7 "Arash" and Azaraksh HOBS for BVR+WVR.
- Integrate SDB PGMs for multirail launch.
- Integrate Abu-Mahdi AShCM (1000 KM) & Paveh LACM (1650 KM)
- Integrate ALBM that can gain a lofted Apogee for range.

Every airframe counts in the end and few aircraft available to IRIAF for purchase can match the attack capabilities of F-4E/D.

Can it carry all of Iran's most modern air launched cruise missiles and glide bombs? Any updates to the cockpit like they did in the Kowsar?

If so, overhauled airframes/engines with capability for precision cruise missiles and glide bombs is an insanely deadly weapon in today's world.