Israel is itching to go to war with Turkiye and Egypt

@Desert BTW, Turkish and Israeli deep states are likely not at odds at all. If they truly were Turkiye and Israel would have long ago stopped diplomatic ties. Economic, military (intelligence likely occurs as well) ties are intact not to mention the Israeli-Azerbaijani-Turkish relations.

Erdogan has to maneuver a domestic audience that, much like most of the Arab and Muslim world, (at least half in Turkiye), are heavily against Israeli war crimes in Palestine and behavior in the region.

Main fault line in Turkiye are the "Kemalists" vs "Islamists and citizens in large cities vs rural population.

But those divisions like every other in the world are diminishing everywhere as people are getting more and more similar everywhere regardless of country due to globalization, social media, technology etc.

At the same time Turkiye is deeply ingrained with the West economically, military, NATO etc.

The reality is also that Israel is here to stay (most likely) and that we need to find some way of coexistence eventually once a solution to Palestine can be found.

Do not forget that Israel is basically an Arab country ethnically. 20% of the population is Arab (Palestinians, Bedouins included, Druze) Israeli and 2/3 of all Israeli Jews are Arab Jews originally from Morocco, Yemen (many "Yemeni" Jews are originally from South KSA), Egypt, Syrian, Libyan, Iraqi etc.

In short if the region wants to truly develop, outside of a few small pockets in the region (GCC and Turkiye mostly), economic cooperation must increase and a EU-like model must be copied to avoid stupid conflicts. No other way.
 
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In many many ways, Egypt and Pakistan are very similar. Both ruled by the military using proxy govts.
Both peoples have similar issues and lives.
 
I am amazed how this thread is still going on ?

Turkey Versus Israel, Youtuber's fantasy. Its Nothing but a theatrics

Let me explain why Turkey Versus Israel is not going to happen in foreseeable future. In our lifetimes they both will keep close contact and trade relations as they are enjoying today.

Mr. Erdogan and some Israeli leaders do say some stuff for local political consumption that's all. There's no practical element in that. Otherwise as Israel was committing genocide in Gaza, Turkey could have done a very few basic "soft" steps at minimum. Just forget about actual military confrontation, they could done few basic "practical" steps and not just stupid rhetoric. Here's what they could have easily done if they really mean what they say:

1- Could have ended diplomatic relations - Turks did nothing.
2- Could have stopped oil supply / route to Israel. The oil which literally fueled Israel's wars. - Turks did nothing.

So, when they do absolutely nothing in practical terms how we can even assume that there will be actual war between two distant allies? There's not even a remote possibility of that. We have to always remember that Turkey is in a closest military alliance with west (US and EU) - the NATO. NATO and Israel are practically at the same side. There's more chances that Turks and Israelis will be at the same side fighting any future war. For-example if WW3 breaks out and China, Russia and North Korea gets into war with US and NATO. Then Turkey and Israel will be at the same side.

So let's not take mere political statements as reality of the ground. We must see what's actually happening on the ground. Turks are practically allies of Israel, a NATO country with US troops and bases. The US assets protect Israel. The only nation on earth that actually did something in their capacity against genocide in Gaza was Yemen. They fire Ballistic missiles on Israel from time to time only because of Gaza. Unlike even Iran which retaliated only when Israel attacked Iran first. But the yemeni houthis attacked Israel only for Gaza. Then most importantly they kept hitting shipping lanes in red sea and they categorically kept saying that calm in Gaza means calm in red sea. They were doing everything they could for 1000 miles away unarmed muslims being slaughtered by Israel. They are most selfless people ever. No other nation did a thing. Turks and some of arab nations kept diplomatic / trade relations while the genocide was carrying out.

I think, its time to stop discussing Turkish military equipment marketing specs versus Israel's war machine. As in fantasy world they might face off. Not in real world.
 
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I am amazed how this thread is still going on ?

Turkey Versus Israel, Youtuber's fantasy. Its Nothing but a theatrics

Let me explain why Turkey Versus Israel is not going to happen in foreseeable future. In our lifetimes they both will keep close contact and trade relations as they are enjoying today.

Mr. Erdogan and some Israeli leaders do say some stuff for local political consumption that's all. There's no practical element in that. Otherwise as Israel was committing genocide in Gaza, Turkey could have done a very few basic "soft" steps at minimum. Just forget about actual military confrontation, they could done few basic "practical" steps and not just stupid rhetoric. Here's what they could have easily done if they really mean what they say:

1- Deny air traffic / air space to Israeli airliners. Or any airline that is coming from Israel to be banned at Turkish airspace. But Turkey did nothing of such sort.
2- Could have stopped trade relations - Turkey did nothing
3- Could have ended diplomatic relations - Turks did nothing.
4- Could have stopped oil supply / route to Israel. The oil which literally fueled Israel's wars. - Turks did nothing.

So, when they do absolutely nothing in practical terms how we can even assume that there will be actual war between two distant allies? There's not even a remote possibility of that. We have to always remember that Turkey is in a closest military alliance with west (US and EU) - the NATO. NATO and Israel are practically at the same side. There's more chances that Turks and Israelis will be at the same side fighting any future war. For-example if WW3 breaks out and China, Russia and North Korea gets into war with US and NATO. Then Turkey and Israel will be at the same side.

So let's not take mere political statements as reality of the ground. We must see what's actually happening on the ground. Turks are practically allies of Israel, a NATO country with US troops and bases. The US assets protect Israel. The only nation on earth that actually did something in their capacity against genocide in Gaza was Yemen. They fire Ballistic missiles on Israel from time to time only because of Gaza. Unlike even Iran which retaliated only when Israel attacked Iran first. But the yemeni houthis attacked Israel only for Gaza. Then most importantly they kept hitting shipping lanes in red sea and they categorically kept saying that calm in Gaza means calm in red sea. They were doing everything they could for 1000 miles away unarmed muslims being slaughtered by Israel. They are most selfless people ever. No other nation did a thing. Turks and some of arab nations kept diplomatic / trade relations while the genocide was carrying out.

I think, its time to stop discussing Turkish military equipment marketing specs versus Israel's war machine. As in fantasy world they might face off. Not in real world.

When shit will hit the fan in Mideast, even the Turkish govt won’t be able to stop it, and if they are actively aiding the zionists existence with all goods and trade, will they not get divine punishment ??
Can they keep on doing what they’re doing without consequences??

Do u think there are no divine intervention or punishment for siding with the zionists (by giving them oil, fuel, food, trade etc).
 
When shit will hit the fan in Mideast, even the Turkish govt won’t be able to stop it, and if they are actively aiding the zionists existence with all goods and trade, will they not get divine punishment ??
Can they keep on doing what they’re doing without consequences??

Do u think there are no divine intervention or punishment for siding with the zionists (by giving them oil, fuel, food, trade etc).

Honestly, no. there's no divine intervention. That's why judgement day is for.

Why do you think Almighty would intervene for some people when everyone has to be judged on judgement day?

There was no divine intervention for even Prophet's Grandson and his 70 family members and children being slaughtered. There's no divine intervention when tens of thousands of children being bombed, trapped under the rubble, scratching the concrete, screaming for hours and getting killed due to pain and injuries. There's no divine intervention when even 4 year old little girls being r-ped and brutally murdered across the world. One such event happened in Pakistan few years back when her Parents were doing Hajj.

So stop relying on divine intervention. We are nothing but a dust particle in vastness of the universe. There could be million more civilizations out there in universe, why we think we so special that we will be "helped" during the exam.
 
@Lulldapull @MS Sandhu

You guys are telling each other about "converted". I never understood this mentality. Why to feel offended about it ? At some point in time our ancestors did converted to Islam. Someone's ancestors might have converted 800 years ago, other's might have converted 200 years ago. But each and single soul in Pakistan today should accept the fact that our ancestors were hindus or whatever religion was present in our regions. We are not arabs. Whichever arabs (or even arab armies) came in whatever period of time they represented only a fraction or perhaps 0.00001% of total population of the region. So probability that someone is decendant of arabs is virtually none. BTW, even arabs are all 100% converted. Even the first muslim (other than the Prophet himself) was converted too. Everyone accepted Islam.

Now I tell you why it should be proud thing to know that you all are converted. Because having courage to accept a different faith from your father and ancestors is a big deal. Nobody change faith out of fear. In india, Islam spread solely on basis of Dawah. The afghan invaders only stopped the spread of islam as they never came for Dawah but came to loot and rape. So people only stopped converting seeing Afghan invaders otherwise whole of india would have been muslim today. A practical example is indonesia and malaysia. Both converted to islam solely on basis of Dawah. There was not a single conquest of these lands by muslim armies.

So feel proud that at some point in history your ancestor converted. Otherwise how on earth you'd be what you are today. Be proud on indus valley civilization, be proud on the name india, hind, hindustan, indian ocean and all are derived from indus valley civilization which is our ancient history. Pakistan is home to indus valley civilization. Which is by far the ancient civilization of india.
Arabs also used to worship idols so they are also converts, only the Hanif people used to worship Allah almighty. Its normally racist GCC people who mock us for being converts, the arab nationalists who look down on us.
 
That's why a military coup in 2013 happened by the help of Gulfies,israel and U.S
How did the initial revolution happened? Who encouraged and funded it, all western media were screaming revolution revolution, Mubarak would not step down and it was Obama who pressurised Mubarak to step down, he said this on tv aswell.
 
There are no elties , deep state or any this kind in Egypt.
There is only the army who is a puppet to the americans and western powers.

ok since you brought it , let me ask you , why Europe and U.S tend to give Egypt a third tire military equipments ? like for example , the f-16s without harm or amrram or new versions of side winder?
the rafale without meteor ?
the fremm without nettuno and aster 30 ?
the gowind without the aster 15?
the basic version of abrams ?

etc ..

do you think a faithful army (whose only concern) is Egypt would accept such garbage equipments ? nuh uh.

it's obvious that this army from 1952 just wants to stay in power and that's it, doesn't matter the ppl are poor or hungry or flee in the sea to escape to europe and die drowning.

The UAE , Saudis, Kuwaits and Bahrainins supported the pupper in 2013 however the Saudis now are against him which I hope that will help gettin rid of him.
Egypt doesn't have any other option, even Turkey and Pakistan wants Usa equipment which are cutting edge but recently with China and Turkey building world class weaponary everything is changing. I hope Egypt goes for Turkish Kaan and build a powerful airforce, then they will concentrate on the rest of the military force. Egypt fought 3 x wars with Israel, they realised noone helps them but Israel is backed by Usa and EU, so it wasnt possibly to defeat Israel but times are changing. Turkish and Egyptian close military relations can fix this.
 
Arabs also used to worship idols so they are also converts, only the Hanif people used to worship Allah almighty. Its normally racist GCC people who mock us for being converts, the arab nationalists who look down on us.
Nonsense. The world's oldest Christian and Jewish communities outside Southern Levant (Palestine) (next door neighbor of Arabia - partially part of geographical Arabia like Sinai, Jordan etc) were found in Arabia. The same region (Arabia) is mentioned more times in the Bible and Torah than any other region not named Palestine/Israel. You can easily look this up yourself as can everyone else.

Hanifs (first recorded monotheists) and indeed there were ancient pre-Abrahamic Semitic beliefs similar to ancient Levantine, Arabian, Egyptian, Mesopotamian ancient religions, which were polytheistic in nature. Constant new information due to archeological findings are sharing a new light on this by each finding and paints a much more complex story. In fact most of the world (all of it) was polytheistic if we go far back.

Never heard about any Arabs looking down on "converts" in fact many converts (recent in particular) are better Muslims than "old Muslims" regardless of origin and ethnicity.

Most Arab nationalists (vast majority) are not even found in the GCC (the GCC is not one country either) but historically and currently found elsewhere in the Arab world. Most locals in the GCC have a Islamist (historically too) outlook and nationalism was never racial in the GCC which is why GCC has welcomed so many foreigners and absorbed Muslim ethnic groups from every corner of the world from Bosnia to Indonesia to Africa to Caucasus to South Asia. In particular KSA. More than any other region in the Muslim world. Which is why you can find a Saudi Arabian of Arab origin, next to a Saudi Arabian of African origin (say Hausa from Nigeria), a Saudi Arabian of Uzbek origin (Asiatic/Mongoloid) and a Saudi Arabian Muslim of Bosniak origin all calling KSA their homeland.

Are people like you, that have some kind of misconception about Arabs, ever complain about racism against Arabs (which is also present among a minority of Muslims worldwide)? Why always the stupid focus on a tiny minority (overall) of bad Arab apples as if there are not any racists in Pakistan or every Muslim country. You think that there are no Iranian or Turkish racists or what? You would be surprised that many of them are even worse than most of our worst apples.

Just on this little forum there have been tons of racists posts aimed at Arabs. Never see you comment on that. The double standard is really strange.
 
I am amazed how this thread is still going on ?

Turkey Versus Israel, Youtuber's fantasy. Its Nothing but a theatrics

Let me explain why Turkey Versus Israel is not going to happen in foreseeable future. In our lifetimes they both will keep close contact and trade relations as they are enjoying today.

Mr. Erdogan and some Israeli leaders do say some stuff for local political consumption that's all. There's no practical element in that. Otherwise as Israel was committing genocide in Gaza, Turkey could have done a very few basic "soft" steps at minimum. Just forget about actual military confrontation, they could done few basic "practical" steps and not just stupid rhetoric. Here's what they could have easily done if they really mean what they say:

1- Could have ended diplomatic relations - Turks did nothing.
2- Could have stopped oil supply / route to Israel. The oil which literally fueled Israel's wars. - Turks did nothing.

So, when they do absolutely nothing in practical terms how we can even assume that there will be actual war between two distant allies? There's not even a remote possibility of that. We have to always remember that Turkey is in a closest military alliance with west (US and EU) - the NATO. NATO and Israel are practically at the same side. There's more chances that Turks and Israelis will be at the same side fighting any future war. For-example if WW3 breaks out and China, Russia and North Korea gets into war with US and NATO. Then Turkey and Israel will be at the same side.

So let's not take mere political statements as reality of the ground. We must see what's actually happening on the ground. Turks are practically allies of Israel, a NATO country with US troops and bases. The US assets protect Israel. The only nation on earth that actually did something in their capacity against genocide in Gaza was Yemen. They fire Ballistic missiles on Israel from time to time only because of Gaza. Unlike even Iran which retaliated only when Israel attacked Iran first. But the yemeni houthis attacked Israel only for Gaza. Then most importantly they kept hitting shipping lanes in red sea and they categorically kept saying that calm in Gaza means calm in red sea. They were doing everything they could for 1000 miles away unarmed muslims being slaughtered by Israel. They are most selfless people ever. No other nation did a thing. Turks and some of arab nations kept diplomatic / trade relations while the genocide was carrying out.

I think, its time to stop discussing Turkish military equipment marketing specs versus Israel's war machine. As in fantasy world they might face off. Not in real world.
Most of it is true but we also need to understand Turkey is a rising power, they want to expand their influence in to the middleeast and this will clash with Israeli interests. Turkey and their allies may not attack Israel but Israel has its own plans to expand and this will be a big problem for them.

I dont see a war between Turkey and Israel, Turkey is too powerful, before a war Israel needs to isolate Turkey in the region like they did to Iran, sanctions, removal from Nato etc but with the Muslim world and Asia rising its a big challenge. Militarily Turkey is powerful and in 15 years they will be untouchable, plus Turkey is building close military economic relations with Turkic world, they know exactly how to play the game.
 
You have a great insight towards the Egyptian situation.

about 1973, Egypt gave israel a major defeat in the beginning of the war but by the end of it we suffered huge casualities due to what you said ( patriotic leader) .. the patriotic leader was Al-Shazly. He was Egypt's chief of staff during the Yom Kippur War. He told Al-Sadat not to extend the attack but sadat ( the traitor) refused,
He was removed from office .This dismissal was the result of sharp strategic disagreements over the management of the battle and the development of the offensive, which later led to the 'Deversoir breach.' These disagreements worsened after El Shazly fiercely opposed the Camp David Accords.

Sadat has always been a fucken spy , he deserved every bullet in his chest.
Yes bro.... Egypt's location, Nile river, suez canal, its pyramids makes Egypt very special.... in India in geography subject we had a dedicated chapter on Egypt... so Egypt is always my subject of interest....

Yes about Yom Kippour war Egypt had almost won that war and Israel had almost made up its mind to accept defeat and leave but that stupid extension of war towards south Sinai gave Israel a new life.... sadat was told to not to extend war towards south Sinai as that post would have automatically come to Egypt after Isreal's defeat but he refused.... so unfortunate....
 
I am amazed how this thread is still going on ?

Turkey Versus Israel, Youtuber's fantasy. Its Nothing but a theatrics

Let me explain why Turkey Versus Israel is not going to happen in foreseeable future. In our lifetimes they both will keep close contact and trade relations as they are enjoying today.

Mr. Erdogan and some Israeli leaders do say some stuff for local political consumption that's all. There's no practical element in that. Otherwise as Israel was committing genocide in Gaza, Turkey could have done a very few basic "soft" steps at minimum. Just forget about actual military confrontation, they could done few basic "practical" steps and not just stupid rhetoric. Here's what they could have easily done if they really mean what they say:

1- Could have ended diplomatic relations - Turks did nothing.
2- Could have stopped oil supply / route to Israel. The oil which literally fueled Israel's wars. - Turks did nothing.

So, when they do absolutely nothing in practical terms how we can even assume that there will be actual war between two distant allies? There's not even a remote possibility of that. We have to always remember that Turkey is in a closest military alliance with west (US and EU) - the NATO. NATO and Israel are practically at the same side. There's more chances that Turks and Israelis will be at the same side fighting any future war. For-example if WW3 breaks out and China, Russia and North Korea gets into war with US and NATO. Then Turkey and Israel will be at the same side.

So let's not take mere political statements as reality of the ground. We must see what's actually happening on the ground. Turks are practically allies of Israel, a NATO country with US troops and bases. The US assets protect Israel. The only nation on earth that actually did something in their capacity against genocide in Gaza was Yemen. They fire Ballistic missiles on Israel from time to time only because of Gaza. Unlike even Iran which retaliated only when Israel attacked Iran first. But the yemeni houthis attacked Israel only for Gaza. Then most importantly they kept hitting shipping lanes in red sea and they categorically kept saying that calm in Gaza means calm in red sea. They were doing everything they could for 1000 miles away unarmed muslims being slaughtered by Israel. They are most selfless people ever. No other nation did a thing. Turks and some of arab nations kept diplomatic / trade relations while the genocide was carrying out.

I think, its time to stop discussing Turkish military equipment marketing specs versus Israel's war machine. As in fantasy world they might face off. Not in real world.
The biggest misconception and fantasy is that Iran somehow went to war against Israel and USA or that Iran somehow defended Palestine or Muslims, as well. Neither is the case.

Iran never lifted a finger against Israel (or the US) since 1948 and only for the first time ever launched a few missiles and drones at Israel (killing less than 30 Israelis in now 2 conflicts) after being brutally assaulted and carpet bombed by the US and Israel and having their leadership annihilated, much of their military, 300 billion in material damages and loses, 10.000's of casualties etc. Are we supposed to hail a country of 90 million, many times larger than tiny Israel for striking back with the only offensive weapons that they have (missiles and drones) after being attacked repeatedly, in particular after spending 50 years of cheap rhetoric and talk of destroying and defeating the US and Israel. Meanwhile for 99.99% of the time they used more energy founding Shia proxies/terrorist groups/cults opportunistically in war-torn/unstable Arab countries, supporting secular Arab nationalist Ba'athi dictators like Al-Assad that mass-murdered his own people in the 10.000's (before his father too), in order to gain influence as otherwise you would have zero influence because nobody in the Arab world or outside of Iran cares about some Sassanian king or Zoroastrianism which is almost extinct.

All of this was solely done and is being done in order to give Iran influence in the region. Not in order to defeat Israel or the West. Otherwise they had 50 + years to attack Israel. During the genocide in Gaza they did nothing either not even launched a single missile or drone. So they are not any better or worse than other Muslim nations.

Problem is that we have blind worshippers of them, many on this forum, who want to turn them into some deities that Muslims need to worship but they do not know their nature or behavior in the region since 1979. Or even within Iran itself where they have turned millions of Iranians away from Islam and religion altogether due to their rule. Which is why you find some of the biggest anti-Muslims and degenerates among the Iranian diaspora in the West. That did not come out of nowhere.

You can imagine the state of much of the Muslim world if such theatrics cannot be properly read by the average Muslim for what it is.

Same with the lot that believes that Erdogan and Turkiye (with all due respect) is going to defeat Israel and the West and what not.

Not very clever that lot, are they?

And before some trolls start crying about Arabs - no current day Arab leadership talks about destroying/defeating Israel and the US and past Arab leaderships (some), in the modern era, were the only ones who actually went to full-scale wars against Israel and had direct (actual wars other than air campaigns) wars with US are mostly Arabs too with Afghans. Nobody else. Same Arabs that used to rule much of South Europe for 700-800 years and which historically went to war with the West 100's of times just in the Islamic era let alone pre-Islamic era. Arab armies already 1300 + years ago were at the gates of Tours and Paris (Frankish Empire was the strongest European power back then) and only due to logistics (over 10.000 away from the Muslim Arab heartland) did they not accomplish conquering all of Western Europe.

But bottom line - all Muslim leaderships are the same in this regard. Today at least.

Qatar, KSA (used to to it for decades until 1-1.5 decade or so after 9/11 - more than any other Muslim nation) used to fund every Muslim group, uprising etc. against non-Muslims from Bosnia to Chechnya to Afghanistan to Palestine, but nobody claimed that KSA leadership was fighting for all Muslims or going to defeat Israel/USA, LOL. We only see it with Iran from the usual lot. Shame that they cannot give this honor to Qatar (main supporter of Hamas and even hosting their leadership - a Hamas leader was murdered in Tehran no less) as well. I guess Qatar needs to be carpet bombed by the US and Israel for that to occur and maybe the same lot will scream that Qatari leadership are the new Muslim deities that we need to worship because they fired a few drones and missiles at Israel after being carpet bombed first.
 
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