J-31 to be inducted soon| Pilot training reportedly in progress

[Oscar]

J-31 will be very close to F-35 if not better. China won't be inducted a Naval version of it if that wasn't the case. Secondly, there is no full clarity on how many prototypes of J-31 exist.

Disagree - we don’t know enough to really anything but the F-35s systems are quite advanced. Remains to be seen what is on the J-31 but China’s need is to have even 90% of the capabilities the US has and its met its requirements. The J-15 can be seen from miles away so it needed a capability to avoid US surveillance nets just enough.

 

[Michael]

Just out of interest since people are arguing that the J-31 doesn't yet has a trainer version, does the F-22 Raptor has a twin seater.

In China, the advanced trainer for fifth-generation fighter pilots is the JL10 (PLA self-use version of the L-15).

So far, of all the fifth-generation fighters in the world, only the J20 has a two-seat version. But, in the other seat, instead of a flight instructor, it was the UAV commander.

 

[Deino]

J-31 will be very close to F-35 if not better. China won't be inducted a Naval version of it if that wasn't the case. Secondly, there is no full clarity on how many prototypes of J-31 exist.

Indeed, but to think just out of the blue that after the first flew in September 2023 there would be already that many to allow Pakistani pilot training in China or it would enter service soon in late 2025 is still ridiculous.

 

[Taimoor]

Just out of interest since people are arguing that the J-31 doesn't yet has a trainer version, does the F-22 Raptor has a twin seater.
View attachment 58207

Also, I sense bit of "hope" among Indians that they will get F35 and on time! Even if that next to zero possibility comes to pass, J31 and F35 are not the same category. J31 peer among westerns platform is F22. Size, twin engines, and perhaps the capabilities and payload.

 

[Michael]

Indeed, but to think just out of the blue that after the first flew in September 2023 there would be already that many to allow Pakistani pilot training in China or it would enter service soon in late 2025 is still ridiculous.

There is still a lot of work to be done before the J31 is officially boarded. Basic theoretical study of the piloting of fifth-generation fighters. J31 simulator training. Advanced Trainer Flight Training .......... I'm not an expert on this, it's just my speculation........

The Chinese military has a rule: only personnel are allowed to wait for equipment, and equipment is never allowed to wait for personnel.

I think that if this news is true, the Pakistani pilots should have come to China to do the preliminary work on the J31 with the Chinese pilots.

However, Chinese media reports on the news are quoted from Pakistani media. No official media in China officially reported the news.

If possible, you can ask a journalist friend at a press conference of the Ministry of Defense to ask a PLA spokesman to confirm the news.

 

[Michael]

In the early days, the pilots of China's advanced fighter jets were the ace pilots of the old fighters, and they had to have very, very rich flying experience to fly the advanced fighters.

The advantage of this is stability and safety, but the process of training senior pilots is very lengthy, resulting in very few senior fighter pilots.
=======================
Now the PLA model of training for senior fighter pilots has shifted to a "growth mode"

The first to use this model to train pilots was the PLA Navy. High school graduates enter the Naval Aviation University to study, and the graduation exam is to fly the J15 to complete the take-off and landing on an aircraft carrier. Then, PLAAF also began to use this model to train pilots.

So, the pilots of the J20 and J15 that you see now are very young.

Pakistan may be able to borrow this experience from the PLA to train pilots quickly and massively.

 

[Oscar]

In the early days, the pilots of China's advanced fighter jets were the ace pilots of the old fighters, and they had to have very, very rich flying experience to fly the advanced fighters.

The advantage of this is stability and safety, but the process of training senior pilots is very lengthy, resulting in very few senior fighter pilots.
=======================
Now the PLA model of training for senior fighter pilots has shifted to a "growth mode"

The first to use this model to train pilots was the PLA Navy. High school graduates enter the Naval Aviation University to study, and the graduation exam is to fly the J15 to complete the take-off and landing on an aircraft carrier. Then, PLAAF also began to use this model to train pilots.

So, the pilots of the J20 and J15 that you see now are very young.

Pakistan may be able to borrow this experience from the PLA to train pilots quickly and massively.

It already has been doing this for a LONG time.
This was for F-16s initially - then it was applied to JF-17s and now its fleet wide.

 

[Michael]

It already has been doing this for a LONG time.
This was for F-16s initially - then it was applied to JF-17s and now its fleet wide.

Hey, man. I'm talking about advanced fighter pilots, not regular fighter pilots.
The PLA's training of ordinary fighter pilots has been a direct training model for a long time.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
In China, the PLAAF has partnered with many prestigious high schools to create pilot classes. High school graduates with very, very good grades enter the pilot class after a physical examination and political review. The entire high school stage, completely military management, students do not have to pay anything. After graduating from high school, he entered the Air Force Aviation University. Straight after college, he became a PLAAF pilot. Mainly drive J10 series, J11 series, Su 30 series, Su 35 series. -- We do this mainly to compete for talent.

Before they could fly the J20, they needed to fly these aircraft for many years and achieve excellent results. Now, it is possible to fly the J20 directly after graduation.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The driving of the fifth-generation fighter is completely different from the ordinary fighter, and its flight control is much easier than the ordinary fighter, but the information processing ability is very strong and complex, and it requires the pilot to have a high cultural knowledge. This requires a very systematic learning process. CCTV has many interviews with J20 drivers, which you can find on Youtube. The driving requirements of the J31 and J20 are basically the same.

 

[Oscar]

Hey, man. I'm talking about advanced fighter pilots, not regular fighter pilots.
The PLA's training of ordinary fighter pilots has been a direct training model for a long time.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
In China, the PLAAF has partnered with many prestigious high schools to create pilot classes. High school graduates with very, very good grades enter the pilot class after a physical examination and political review. The entire high school stage, completely military management, students do not have to pay anything. After graduating from high school, he entered the Air Force Aviation University. Straight after college, he became a PLAAF pilot. Mainly drive J10 series, J11 series, Su 30 series, Su 35 series. -- We do this mainly to compete for talent.

Before they could fly the J20, they needed to fly these aircraft for many years and achieve excellent results. Now, it is possible to fly the J20 directly after graduation.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The driving of the fifth-generation fighter is completely different from the ordinary fighter, and its flight control is much easier than the ordinary fighter, but the information processing ability is very strong and complex, and it requires the pilot to have a high cultural knowledge. This requires a very systematic learning process. CCTV has many interviews with J20 drivers, which you can find on Youtube. The driving requirements of the J31 and J20 are basically the same.

I’m referring to those as well.. back in the 80s when the F-16 was the most advanced aircraft around the initial pilots were all experienced Mirage pilots… then slowly as the aircraft evolved top academy graduates went straight to the F-16. I know one of the pilots who first brought the F-16 in the 80s and he actually escorted a PLAAF general on a tour of the F-16 where the general asked all sorts of questions including how PAF was thinking of implementing training for advanced (for that time) 4th gen aircraft.

- early JF-17 pilots were drawn from experienced F-16 Cadre until the aircraft and training was fully absorbed and now pilots go directly from the academy.

just as today J-10 pilots are drawn from experienced F-16 & JF-17 Cadre and eventually direct from academy.

5th generation may have more advanced battle management requirements but the growth model is the same.

The PAF has a different recruitment process but in essence there are the mixes of cadet college graduates with highest grades and performance who mirror your high school types and then those who join the academy at a later stage.
Keep in mind, Pakistan has no shortage of volunteers wanting to sign up so the pool is very large.

 

[Zarvan]

Indeed, but to think just out of the blue that after the first flew in September 2023 there would be already that many to allow Pakistani pilot training in China or it would enter service soon in late 2025 is still ridiculous.

Sir if four to five prototypes are flying then no it's not ridiculous. We didn't had 20 prototypes of JF 17. There was 6 prototypes and then we went for small batch production. Although J 31 is a totally different beast still prototypes won't exceed 6

 

[Yasser76]

I’m referring to those as well.. back in the 80s when the F-16 was the most advanced aircraft around the initial pilots were all experienced Mirage pilots… then slowly as the aircraft evolved top academy graduates went straight to the F-16. I know one of the pilots who first brought the F-16 in the 80s and he actually escorted a PLAAF general on a tour of the F-16 where the general asked all sorts of questions including how PAF was thinking of implementing training for advanced (for that time) 4th gen aircraft.

- early JF-17 pilots were drawn from experienced F-16 Cadre until the aircraft and training was fully absorbed and now pilots go directly from the academy.

just as today J-10 pilots are drawn from experienced F-16 & JF-17 Cadre and eventually direct from academy.

5th generation may have more advanced battle management requirements but the growth model is the same.

The PAF has a different recruitment process but in essence there are the mixes of cadet college graduates with highest grades and performance who mirror your high school types and then those who join the academy at a later stage.
Keep in mind, Pakistan has no shortage of volunteers wanting to sign up so the pool is very large.

5th gen transition will be a big challenge. Not only with such intense sensor fusion and true network centric warfare and stealth capability, but also developing tactics that fully exploit their aircraft and weapons.

China will help but will obviously not reveal all their secrets and additionally PAF have a different support set up and mix of US/European systems as well as an enemy very close by, while China will be focused on a very long range fight

 

[Oscar]

5th gen transition will be a big challenge. Not only with such intense sensor fusion and true network centric warfare and stealth capability, but also developing tactics that fully exploit their aircraft and weapons.

China will help but will obviously not reveal all their secrets and additionally PAF have a different support set up and mix of US/European systems as well as an enemy very close by, while China will be focused on a very long range fight

It’s night and day but the J-10 has been a good prep on some systems.

PAF is has also “chatted” with a friendly country that is developing 5th but more importantly has already undergone training/tactics for one they did not receive

 

[Yasser76]

It’s night and day but the J-10 has been a good prep on some systems.

PAF is has also “chatted” with a friendly country that is developing 5th but more importantly has already undergone training/tactics for one they did not receive

I think challenge here will be sensor integration and fusion with othe platforms. US F-22/F-35 integrated with all NATO/US systems and Chinese J-20 integrated with all Chinese systems.

PAF will have a Chinese stealth fighter but US/Euro/Chinese systems and platforms

 

[Oscar]

I think challenge here will be sensor integration and fusion with othe platforms. US F-22/F-35 integrated with all NATO/US systems and Chinese J-20 integrated with all Chinese systems.

PAF will have a Chinese stealth fighter but US/Euro/Chinese systems and platforms

Link-17 has taken care of that.
If I am not mistaken its operational on all AEW now.

No other western system is coming that a supplier will raise eyebrows on.
Turks are ok with what PAF segments with China and F-16s are the last major western fighter the PAF will operate and most of them including the Block-52s are now “old”

 

[Yasser76]

Link-17 has taken care of that.
If I am not mistaken its operational on all AEW now.

No other western system is coming that a supplier will raise eyebrows on.
Turks are ok with what PAF segments with China and F-16s are the last major western fighter the PAF will operate and most of them including the Block-52s are now “old”

I am not so sure, will take more then a data link. Would for example a J-31 be able to fire a PL-17 at extreme range deep into India (say to take out an AEW as it takes off) and would an Erieye be able to guide it mid-course?

I think this level of integration is more complex than just a data link, but I am no expert in this exact field