J-31 to be inducted soon| Pilot training reportedly in progress

Dont start threads with non-english videos for clickbait. Language of this forum is English.

Use existing proper threads for the subject matter at hand if you want to analyse non-english video rather than engaging in troll-clickbaiting needs.

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Thread moved to PAF section.

Please combine thread with existing J-31 thread @Musings et al.

 
That he didn't. But as it was an Air Chief and historically when our chiefs mention an induction it's not 5 to 6 years away, in most cases from few months to two years at best.
Just like your previous claims of Su-35 saga where you said deal was done and Su-35 were land in Pakistan within few months on old PDF few years back

Basically you've wishful thinking and spreading false speculations about induction of J-31 in PAF colors with no base and logical explanation how Wil J31 will induct in PAF colors in less than 2 years with only 1 prototype flying and hasn't certified yet
 
Unfortunately - Pakistan has already reached that status in 3 out of the 4 points you mentioned.

According to our historical experience, once the army has independent financial power, it will quickly corrupt and even turn into a warlord.

If a government is not sure enough to take back the power of the military, then the government should absolutely prohibit the military from doing business.

Because of military spending constraints, the Chinese government allowed the military to engage in business in 1985. That's because China's military is uniquely built, CCP has absolute control over the military, and the Chinese government has the certainty of taking it back at any time.

In 1998, economic conditions improved. The Government of China reintroduced a ban on the military doing business. This ban was swiftly and strictly enforced, and the PLA got back on track and gained combat effectiveness.

The antithesis is Vietnam. in 1986, the Vietnamese government mimicked China's policy of allowing the military to engage in business. However, the Vietnamese government was unable to take back the military's right to do business.

The Vietnamese army, which had gained financial independence, gradually became corrupt and lost its ability to fight. Moreover, the Vietnamese military began to control the government, and most of the top government officials had military backgrounds.

Moreover, Vietnamese military-controlled enterprises utilize their privileges to occupy markets in almost all fields. Private enterprises are simply incapable of competing with military enterprises, which has led to the poor development of Vietnamese private enterprises.
 
According to our historical experience, once the army has independent financial power, it will quickly corrupt and even turn into a warlord.

If a government is not sure enough to take back the power of the military, then the government should absolutely prohibit the military from doing business.

Because of military spending constraints, the Chinese government allowed the military to engage in business in 1985. That's because China's military is uniquely built, CCP has absolute control over the military, and the Chinese government has the certainty of taking it back at any time.

In 1998, economic conditions improved. The Government of China reintroduced a ban on the military doing business. This ban was swiftly and strictly enforced, and the PLA got back on track and gained combat effectiveness.

The antithesis is Vietnam. in 1986, the Vietnamese government mimicked China's policy of allowing the military to engage in business. However, the Vietnamese government was unable to take back the military's right to do business.

The Vietnamese army, which had gained financial independence, gradually became corrupt and lost its ability to fight. Moreover, the Vietnamese military began to control the government, and most of the top government officials had military backgrounds.

Moreover, Vietnamese military-controlled enterprises utilize their privileges to occupy markets in almost all fields. Private enterprises are simply incapable of competing with military enterprises, which has led to the poor development of Vietnamese private enterprises.
Similar situation in Pakistan to vietnam except that not only so they stifle competition but also aren’t always successful themselves so it doubly hurts the economy but that is beyond the scope of this thread.
 
According to our historical experience, once the army has independent financial power, it will quickly corrupt and even turn into a warlord.

If a government is not sure enough to take back the power of the military, then the government should absolutely prohibit the military from doing business.

Because of military spending constraints, the Chinese government allowed the military to engage in business in 1985. That's because China's military is uniquely built, CCP has absolute control over the military, and the Chinese government has the certainty of taking it back at any time.

In 1998, economic conditions improved. The Government of China reintroduced a ban on the military doing business. This ban was swiftly and strictly enforced, and the PLA got back on track and gained combat effectiveness.

The antithesis is Vietnam. in 1986, the Vietnamese government mimicked China's policy of allowing the military to engage in business. However, the Vietnamese government was unable to take back the military's right to do business.

The Vietnamese army, which had gained financial independence, gradually became corrupt and lost its ability to fight. Moreover, the Vietnamese military began to control the government, and most of the top government officials had military backgrounds.

Moreover, Vietnamese military-controlled enterprises utilize their privileges to occupy markets in almost all fields. Private enterprises are simply incapable of competing with military enterprises, which has led to the poor development of Vietnamese private enterprises.
If the civilian government is corrupt than the military has no option but to take control , ideally directly but realistically indirectly. Pakistan governments have failed to perform and achieve the mandates of the people but Pakistan army has proven itself on many fronts but has failed on one front which is straightening the civilian government. Unfortuantely it is convenient to use the corrupts as a tool. Only danger is if corruption spreads to the military then we will have partners in crime.
 
It's the economy, stupid - President Bill Clinton

Pakistan is run by her Deep State, which maintains her very own deep financing sources that are kept out of the watchdogs, especially the international ones. According to some media reports, its "black economy" is worth around a half a trillion $s. Former Pak PM IK has publicly stated that he'd be able to replicate the rule of Sher Shah Suri (a legendary Hindustani Emperor from the 16th century) had he had the access to those resources under the control of her Deep State....

The moment Pak gets out of the IMF program, which is a principal tool of the Imperialists, she's dead. There's a price to pay for being the sole Muslim country with nukes....
Out of courtesy and inner instinct, this should be my last reply to you. As a rational military enthusiast, I have no interest in communicating with an extreme nationalist.

=============================

During special periods, the military has independent funding channels outside the government. In this regard, the CCP has more experience than Pakistan.

During the period when the KMT ruled mainland China, the CCP established institutions in Hong Kong to raise funds and supplies through various means. These funds and supplies were channeled into the CCP-controlled areas in mainland China through the CCP’s underground networks. Ultimately, they helped the CCP defeat the KMT and rule the entire mainland China. (The current China Resources Group was one of the funding channels at that time.) As for the PLA's business history in the 1980s that I mentioned earlier, I will not repeat it.

We all know that the Pakistani military is involved in activities beyond military affairs. But I do not believe that the Pakistani military has the self-control capability comparable to the PLA. They can at most solve daily funding issues, but they do not have the capability to address large-scale weapon procurement funding.

Regarding the funding sources for the Pakistani military's arms procurement over the years, I do not wish to delve deeper into this issue as it would touch upon sensitive nerves of Pakistani brothers, and it is not a topic that should be discussed on a military forum.

As for conspiracy theories like “deep state,” they are widespread. In many countries, there are indeed individuals whose abilities can influence or even control the government. For example, South Korean conglomerates, Jewish financial teams in the U.S., the U.S. military-industrial complex, and many political families in various countries (Japan, the Philippines, Thailand, etc.). This is normal political factional struggle and political maneuvering. The political influence of these groups on the country is dynamic and not fixed. The notion of “Freemasons control the world,” “Jews control the world,” etc., is not worth my time.

Using terms like “deep state” or “shadow government” is typical of conspiracy theories. If you are convinced of them, it suggests that your mind is filled with too much evil, reflecting extreme thinking.

=============================

Because I am using machine translation, many Chinese phrases may be misunderstood when translated into English. I would like to request to the administrator whether I can use both Chinese and English for posting in the future. Chinese is my intended language. When I make inappropriate statements in English, my Chinese remarks can be checked...........
 
According to our historical experience, once the army has independent financial power, it will quickly corrupt and even turn into a warlord.

If a government is not sure enough to take back the power of the military, then the government should absolutely prohibit the military from doing business.

Because of military spending constraints, the Chinese government allowed the military to engage in business in 1985. That's because China's military is uniquely built, CCP has absolute control over the military, and the Chinese government has the certainty of taking it back at any time.

In 1998, economic conditions improved. The Government of China reintroduced a ban on the military doing business. This ban was swiftly and strictly enforced, and the PLA got back on track and gained combat effectiveness.

The antithesis is Vietnam. in 1986, the Vietnamese government mimicked China's policy of allowing the military to engage in business. However, the Vietnamese government was unable to take back the military's right to do business.

The Vietnamese army, which had gained financial independence, gradually became corrupt and lost its ability to fight. Moreover, the Vietnamese military began to control the government, and most of the top government officials had military backgrounds.

Moreover, Vietnamese military-controlled enterprises utilize their privileges to occupy markets in almost all fields. Private enterprises are simply incapable of competing with military enterprises, which has led to the poor development of Vietnamese private enterprises.
As a witness, I can only say that this was a terrible period.

In fact, the ban on military business was extremely painful and difficult to enforce, and it was filled with bloodshed. Many soldiers lost their lives as a result. --------- A high-speed, heavily loaded train will injure many people inside when it makes an emergency stop.
 
Few precise points:

1- Confirm - J31 is coming to PAF Color.
2- When? - Soon and what that soon is we don't know it. My guess is 2028-2030 at earliest but it could be anytime between 2026 to 2035.
3- How many? - We don't know.
4- Funds? - Pak Armed Forces always able to get what they need and they will get it in J31 case too.
5- PAF always get things with support systems and same will happen with J31 case too.

P.S. Just my understanding .......... not any inside news.
I cannot fully agree with your point of view.

I can only say that the current reliable news is: PAF and SAC have been discussing the purchase of FC31, and both parties have roughly determined their intentions, but no contract has been signed.

As for the rest, it is all speculation and analysis, with no credible evidence sources to support it.

If the Chinese government and the Pakistani government do not release other relevant news beneficial to the Pakistani economy, I think this "coming soon" will not be a very short time.

If the Pakistani government further strengthens substantial military cooperation with the United States, I believe this "coming soon" may evolve into "a long way off."
 
That is not the point, even the US and China, which eclipse India do not have as many ongoing projects in development combined!

China

FC-31/J-35
6th Gen

US

NGAD - USAF
NGAD - USN

India

Tejas Mk1/Mk1A
Tejas MK2
ORCA
TEDBF
AMCA


Every country has a finite amount of resources and even Japan/UK/Italy need to combined resources for 1 single fighter. India attempting 5 on it's own is madness.

Project 1 - Mk1A is under production MK2 to larger Mk1, which will eventually replace all single engine fighters including Mk1 estimated induction time frame between 2025-35

Project 2 - TEDBF is twin-engine fighter project for IN and ORCA is a variant offered to IAF to replace Mig-29 & Mirage estimated induction time frame between 2030-40

Project 3 - AMCA is estimated induction time frame is beyond 2035

Tejas MK1A is very much "in development". they are even considering another engine
M2 - In development
AMACA - In development
TEDBF - In development (Navy but still a fighter project)
ORCA - Unsure

All of these projects are going at a snails pace as they all require funds, scientists, infrasctucture.

Every one else is racing ahead with 5th gen. No country, even India, has enough money to support them all.

US has largest GDP on the planet. They only have two active fighter programmes. go figure....

HAL, ADA, IAF & IN need to develop Tejas Mk2 and not not all of them simultaneously as their will be lot of common between them and AMCA has 20 years timeframe to develop

Mig-21 was the mainstay of IAF

in future Tejas Mk2 will be mainstay of IAF
 
Project 1 - Mk1A is under production MK2 to larger Mk1, which will eventually replace all single engine fighters including Mk1 estimated induction time frame between 2025-35

Project 2 - TEDBF is twin-engine fighter project for IN and ORCA is a variant offered to IAF to replace Mig-29 & Mirage estimated induction time frame between 2030-40

Project 3 - AMCA is estimated induction time frame is beyond 2035



HAL, ADA, IAF & IN need to develop Tejas Mk2 and not not all of them simultaneously as their will be lot of common between them and AMCA has 20 years timeframe to develop



in future Tejas Mk2 will be mainstay of IAF

Sorry, I cannot see the point you are making, you are just regurgitating statements.

There are three fighter projects at varying stages of development. No other nation on earth is doing that.
 
That is not the point, even the US and China, which eclipse India do not have as many ongoing projects in development combined!
China
FC-31/J-35
6th Gen
Oh, brother, the FC-31/J-35 has already left the research institute; it is no longer a development project; it is a production project.

The basic idea of Chinese military products is "生产一代、研制一代、预研一代、探索一代 produce one generation, develop one generation, research one generation, explore one generation" -------------- I estimate the English translation will be incorrect.

Currently, all of China’s fifth-generation fighter aircraft development work has been completed; subsequent work is only normal upgrades and small modifications. The main focus of the design units has shifted to the development of the next generation of fighter aircraft.

At present, Chinese media have sporadically disclosed some very cutting-edge technologies. There is currently no information on whether these technologies will be applied to the next generation of fighter aircraft.
For example, recently official media released a piece of news: Northwestern Polytechnical University has completed fundamental research on "aircraft not producing sonic booms when breaking the sound barrier" and is conducting related tests and verifications.
 
Just like your previous claims of Su-35 saga where you said deal was done and Su-35 were land in Pakistan within few months on old PDF few years back

Basically you've wishful thinking and spreading false speculations about induction of J-31 in PAF colors with no base and logical explanation how Wil J31 will induct in PAF colors in less than 2 years with only 1 prototype flying and hasn't certified yet
Zarvan has a good heart but he is just too optimistic... i still remember the rifle thread! That thread got me to pdf though!
 
Out of courtesy and inner instinct, this should be my last reply to you. As a rational military enthusiast, I have no interest in communicating with an extreme nationalist.

=============================

During special periods, the military has independent funding channels outside the government. In this regard, the CCP has more experience than Pakistan.

During the period when the KMT ruled mainland China, the CCP established institutions in Hong Kong to raise funds and supplies through various means. These funds and supplies were channeled into the CCP-controlled areas in mainland China through the CCP’s underground networks. Ultimately, they helped the CCP defeat the KMT and rule the entire mainland China. (The current China Resources Group was one of the funding channels at that time.) As for the PLA's business history in the 1980s that I mentioned earlier, I will not repeat it.

We all know that the Pakistani military is involved in activities beyond military affairs. But I do not believe that the Pakistani military has the self-control capability comparable to the PLA. They can at most solve daily funding issues, but they do not have the capability to address large-scale weapon procurement funding.

Regarding the funding sources for the Pakistani military's arms procurement over the years, I do not wish to delve deeper into this issue as it would touch upon sensitive nerves of Pakistani brothers, and it is not a topic that should be discussed on a military forum.

As for conspiracy theories like “deep state,” they are widespread. In many countries, there are indeed individuals whose abilities can influence or even control the government. For example, South Korean conglomerates, Jewish financial teams in the U.S., the U.S. military-industrial complex, and many political families in various countries (Japan, the Philippines, Thailand, etc.). This is normal political factional struggle and political maneuvering. The political influence of these groups on the country is dynamic and not fixed. The notion of “Freemasons control the world,” “Jews control the world,” etc., is not worth my time.

Using terms like “deep state” or “shadow government” is typical of conspiracy theories. If you are convinced of them, it suggests that your mind is filled with too much evil, reflecting extreme thinking.

=============================

Because I am using machine translation, many Chinese phrases may be misunderstood when translated into English. I would like to request to the administrator whether I can use both Chinese and English for posting in the future. Chinese is my intended language. When I make inappropriate statements in English, my Chinese remarks can be checked...........

After the PLA went through the Three Bay Reorganization in 1927, CCP maintained absolute control over the army at all times. That's why CCP dared to give the army independent financial power many times. This kind of thing is not something that other countries' armies can just imitate.

There is a phenomenon that many CCP officers defected to the KMT army or the Japanese army during the decades of war between 1927 and 1950. But no officer was able to take his unit with him when he defected; these officers could not even take their accompanying guardsmen with them.
 
If the civilian government is corrupt than the military has no option but to take control , ideally directly but realistically indirectly. Pakistan governments have failed to perform and achieve the mandates of the people but Pakistan army has proven itself on many fronts but has failed on one front which is straightening the civilian government. Unfortuantely it is convenient to use the corrupts as a tool. Only danger is if corruption spreads to the military then we will have partners in crime.
PPPP is corrupt and incompetent for sure but noon is hardly better and everybody knows who created noon. You are correct to point out that it is convenient to use the corrupts as a tool as is the case. PTI also came to power in 2018 with military backing and its composition was questionable at the time because it is convenient to use the corrupts as a tool. PTI has better composition now but it is not in power. No wonder Pakistan is in such a good shape in current times. Pakistan must have free and fair elections and values-driven competent political parties to become a prosperous society but one can wish.
 

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