JF-17 PFX program

[Awwad]

By 2035 we would be able to raise at least one squadron of KAAN. Because KAAN would start getting inducted by 2030 to 2032. And each year at best we may get 10 KAAN. J-31 will be here within two years. As for J-10 C the total number of them won't be less than 126 if not way more. JF-17 PFX question is how long will it take to develop. All these jets would be way above 100 in number. I am talking about final number.

I am not talking about final number. Just tell me the number of platforms for J-10Cs, J-31s and KAAN by 2035. Because that will make me understand Or make you understand the crux of the matter. In my thinking PAF will not go for a next platform until it has atleast 60+ aircrafts of the last aircraft type. so PAF will wait to go for J-31 until it has aquired atleast few more squadrons for J-10Cs that will push the timeline for J-31 aquisition.. Similarly, PAF will not be crazy enough to go for KAAN when it has inducted only 5-10 J-31s. PAF will wait until it has matured the platform in its service, so KAAN isn't going to come before 2040s ( if at all)

 

[White Privilege]

Rebuild, Upgrades, Overhauls, and I believe further block III's to compete with an increasing AESA equipped IAF will keep AMF busy for quite a while.

Blk-III appears to be the 'fallback plan' of PAF, if other inductions or get hindered or delayed due to political, budgetary or technological reasons.....

 

[Taimoor]

Exactly!!! The year 2019 changed everything. Army itself realized what they can achieve through Pakistan Air Force. That is there is so much focus on Air Force right now plus projects like NASTP. People don't realize the scale of NASTP. It has changed everything INSHALLAH. PAF will dominate. First it used to be we used to answer India's every induction. Now India will have to answer our inductions and match to us. J-31, KAAN two 2 engine jets plus JF-17 PFX a light weight stealth or almost stealth jet. More like SU-75.

World has changed. Conflicts are now driven by aggressive pursue of dogmas by our adversaries, not just India. Logic/reason will not work, only hammer will.

This upcoming capability should not be seen as India centric only.

 

[TallGuy]

we have been witnessing first ever AI based War (Gaza War) where the target dockets are created by AI and human in loop (who has to authorize) the kinetic strikes.

this Gaza war was used as testing ground and battle prove a new form of warfare!

 

[Deino]

@Deino Looking at current situation the J35s are coming for PLA and Paf but people should not be offended if we say they are not coming until 2030/2032, the plane is not even ready and there is no news about an air to air version as only the naval one has few prototypes built, if the plane is ready by 2027, it will still take a few more years for it to be inducted, the 2030/2032 timeline looks more realistic or even later than that because paf normally waits until a platform is mature.

With this I can totally agree and again in case some fan-boy again claims I would denied anything: I'm pretty sure Pakistan will get them, indeed "earlier" than most expected including me, but any of these claims by any Pakistani official are 1. mostly for the own audience aka internal politics and 2. no-one said a concrete date. This all is over-hyped by some fans.

As such again, YES it will come, but that should not lead us to unrealistic claims and lies. So far there is no J-31 and from all we know, a delivery to Pakistan within the next 12 or 15 months is out of question.

That was precisely my reaction when I first heard (not on this forum).

Feel free to bet your arse, your dignity or whatever!

These birds are coming sooner then most realise.

Again "coming sooner than most realise" is ok and anything after 2027 would be "sooner than most realise" but at least it would be realistic.

 

[Deino]

@Zarvan just answer 5 above questions, I will understand your point of view. Just answer point by point. We are not giving arguments for the sake of arguements. If you're arguements are valid than I should change my views and if mine have weight than you should change yours. If we don't then we'll just agree to disagree.

Exactly my point: Just give a reasonable explanation - not even your source - why you think:

1. there was a third J-31 already in 2018?
2. based on what information are you so sure that there are already the prototypes no. 04 & 05 flying secretly?

Replying simply to these questions would dramatically help understanding your point of view! A constant basing on my alleged bad credibility based on fabricated false claims and lies does not help. I in fact gave you already more than one a detailed reply on why I'm sure the prototype from 2018 si not a J-31 but the FC-31 demonstrator no. 310003 and why I'm also sure that so far there are only three J-35s out.

You in return posted so far only bolt claims but not a single argument besides "someone in the PAF confirmed it will come" even without never mentioning a certain date.

 

[Zarvan]

This is another slide from the same presentation:
View attachment 22695
On the right is Turkish Aerospace Pakistans incorporation certificate from SECP, which has NOTHING to do with NASTP. Turkish Aerospace doesn't even have an office in NASTP. So I take their claims with a mountain of salt.


That being said, judging from the slide and discounting the usual false bravado, I think that PFX is the name given to an effort to deChinaofy the JF17. Notice the lack of the Chinese flag in a slide titled JF17 PFX. There have been conversations iniated by the PAF on this topic several times. The inclusion of the Iran flag is peculiar. I don't have an explanation for that.

Turkish Companies have their offices in NASTAP. Soon we would officially join them. And don't worry when KAAN will be in our colors INSHALLAH you would have some other doubts than. So if a person has decided to always remain skeptic and always live in denial zone. Nothing absolutely nothing can change that.

 

[Deino]

That being said - what’s your take on the image in the latest video of this supposed JF-17PFX. Where could they take that design based on where it is today?

Thanks for asking on my take on this and in fact I don't know! These blurry and too small images give barely a clue to come to any reasonable conclusion.

Indeed an MLU makes perfect sense, maybe a next step towards integration additional more modern systems and as such improved capabilities. Maybe to attract more customers or even the rumoured WS-13 BUT - and again contrary to what sum spin and fabricate together in their mind - NOTHING hints towards a 4.5Xth or even 5th generation development, nothing hints towards an KF-21-look alike with stealthy features, twin engines and at best two tails! This is all imagination based on hope and enthusiasm, but surely not on facts, since we have only little.

This one is just a regular JF-17 - not even a Batch 3 - and as such only a placeholder:



And even this one clearly shows no dramatic changes if ever any?! I has no twin tails, just one engine, no visible stealth features. IMO again just a placeholder or simply again a regular JF-17. But anyway surely NOTHING fancy like some want to portray.

 

[Zarvan]

@Deino Looking at current situation the J35s are coming for PLA and Paf but people should not be offended if we say they are not coming until 2030/2032, the plane is not even ready and there is no news about an air to air version as only the naval one has few prototypes built, if the plane is ready by 2027, it will still take a few more years for it to be inducted, the 2030/2032 timeline looks more realistic or even later than that because paf normally waits until a platform is mature.

Ok enjoy. Until you see J-31 in Pakistani colors and it won't be that long INSHALLAH. But I am telling your right now even than you would have some hilarious thing to say even than. So Good Luck to you.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

No matter how many times we surprise him. He would never learn. So let him live in bubble. INSHALLAH J-31 are coming soon.

Not in your ridiculous 1.5/2 year time frame for sure

 

[Zarvan]

Thanks for asking on my take on this and in fact I don't know! These blurry and too small images give barely a clue to come to any reasonable conclusion.

Indeed an MLU makes perfect sense, maybe a next step towards integration additional more modern systems and as such improved capabilities. Maybe to attract more customers or even the rumoured WS-13 BUT - and again contrary to what sum spin and fabricate together in their mind - NOTHING hints towards a 4.5Xth or even 5th generation development, nothing hints towards an KF-21-look alike with stealthy features, twin engines and at best two tails! This is all imagination based on hope and enthusiasm, but surely not on facts, since we have only little.

This one is just a regular JF-17 - not even a Batch 3 - and as such only a placeholder:

View attachment 22826

And even this one clearly shows no dramatic changes if ever any?! I has no twin tails, just one engine, no visible stealth features. IMO again just a placeholder or simply again a regular JF-17. But anyway surely NOTHING fancy like some want to portray.

View attachment 22827JF-17 PFX is new program and JF-17 picture is being used as reference.

 

[Zarvan]

Not in your ridiculous 1.5/2 year time frame for sure

And if it arrives what will be your excuse? Mr South Korea KF-21 first flight took place in 2020 and it has entered mass production. Meanwhile China has already produced a bigger beast J-20 but they some how will take 20 years to produce a J-31. Yes excellent logic. And even when it comes in 2 years you would have some hilarious thing to say. So continue

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

And if it arrives what will be your excuse? Mr South Korea KF-21 first flight took place in 2020 and it has entered mass production. Meanwhile China has already produced a bigger beast J-20 but they some how will take 20 years to produce a J-31. Yes excellent logic. And even when it comes in 2 years you would have some hilarious thing to say. So continue

Hazarat first few years for j31 PLAAF and PLAN were not interested in J-31 project and J-31 was totally company's internal project, recently PLAN showed interest in it after 2019-2020, so it takes time to be completed and matured

And why do you so confident that J-31 will come within 1.5/2 year time frame, give me the valid reasons for this argument

And you want PAF to induct unfinished project?

 

[Deino]

@Zarvan

You only quoted my post without any answer?

 

[Deino]

And if it arrives what will be your excuse? Mr South Korea KF-21 first flight took place in 2020 and it has entered mass production. Meanwhile China has already produced a bigger beast J-20 but they some how will take 20 years to produce a J-31. Yes excellent logic. And even when it comes in 2 years you would have some hilarious thing to say. So continue

Again, instead of insults, what would you do, if it comes not? Blame others, politics, the weather, god or whom ever?

I was wrong with the fast progress of Kaan and its maiden flight and I openly admitted it ... so far from you nothing but strong words, unfounded claims and excuses to answer a simple, very specific questions. But you probably just don't want to answer because you don't have any answers and would prefer to deflect again based on false information like this, in fact a lie!

And if it arrives what will be your excuse? Mr South Korea KF-21 first flight took place in 2020 and it has entered mass production. Meanwhile China has already produced a bigger beast J-20 but they some how will take 20 years to produce a J-31. Yes excellent logic. And even when it comes in 2 years you would have some hilarious thing to say. So continue

Well, then I admit I was wrong like any honest man would do and like I did with Kaan. I was indeed wrong. But, no-one claimed, China could not build the J-31 or it would take 20 years, it will only take more than your illogical 15-18 months! That's all.

In the meantime, I can well understand your despair: You realise you've leaned way too far out of the window with a completely unrealistic claim, but - for whatever reason (pride, cowardice??) - you're not ready to admit this mistake and now you are lashing out like a three-year-old who defiantly wants his lollipop IMMEDIATELY in the supermarket, asserting your point of view ever more firmly and instead of arguing and justifying it - simply answering a question - it is of course easier to fabricate false accusations, to get excited about other people's mistakes or simply to spread lies that cover up your own mistake!

Sometimes I wonder how old you are? 16, 18, at best nearly 20? ... and then of course you call for Grandpa MrKhan, who is supposed to get you the lollipop, but apparently due to his senility doesn't realise that there are no lollipops at the moment.