JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Quwa]

I remain sure that PAF will make the best choice from all available options now as it did back in those days.

Yeah. IMO, one shouldn't underestimate the China route. We're talking about an industrial superpower with turnkey capacity. No other country aside from the US has that base, and Europe has to get together via consortiums to match it.

Basically, the J-10CE and J-31 aren't 'made cheap' per se, but they leverage the same great economies-of-scale, widescale (PLA) adoption, etc, that American fighters do. That's what makes them truly affordable (on top of any savings in production or labour).

In China, the PAF finally has a supplier akin to America in all the key ways. The only constraining factor is funding (or lack thereof).

 

[VCheng]

Yeah. IMO, one shouldn't underestimate the China route. We're talking about an industrial superpower with turnkey capacity. No other country aside from the US has that base, and Europe has to get together via consortiums to match it.

Basically, the J-10CE and J-31 aren't 'made cheap' per se, but they leverage the same great economies-of-scale, widescale (PLA) adoption, etc, that American fighters do. That's what makes them truly affordable (on top of any savings in production or labour).

In China, the PAF finally has a supplier akin to America in all the key ways. The only constraining factor is funding (or lack thereof).

In the same vein, if China is akin to USA as a supplier, it can also find ways to assist with funding arrangements. I agree with you that Chinese technology has come a long way, and if anyone can put it to its best possible use, it must be PAF.

 

[Sparten]

Echoing ACM Shamim from his own book - when they first learned about the F-16 it seemed someone had read the PAF's Air Staff Requirement and build a fighter around it. It is the PERFECT fighter for what the PAF need(ed,s) as its mainstay. 50 years on still the perfect blend of power, speed, maneuverability, sensors and weapons capacity.

Considering that the USAF fighter mafia used the Vietnam, Arab-Israeli and Pak-India wars to inform what the LWF should be, its actually very likely the designers were aware of the PAF air staff requirement.

 

[Sparten]

All this past talk might seem irrelevant, but it does inform how the PAF could approach things now that it does have options again. The JF-17 and J-10CE are now here to form the mainstay, multirole workhorse; the interest in the J-31 speaks to the longstanding need for a strike asset.

Well there is the twin engine aircraft requirement. But in addition, the nuclear role. In the late 2000's, the Mirages took that over completely, as the F16 was removed from it and the A-5 retired. The JF17 does likely a secondary role, but until the BlkIII and Thunder Bravos, it couldn't' carry the Ra'ad. I suspect the J31 will assume the deep penetration nuclear role.

 

[studsmart]

Is there a Blk4 JFT based on bravo with ws13 , additional fuel plus one additional HP (total 9) coming/ or under plans?

 

[Quwa]

Is there a Blk4 JFT based on bravo with ws13 , additional fuel plus one additional HP (total 9) coming/ or under plans?

Not officially at this time. We don't even 100% know if the JF-17C itself is using a new engine (whether RD-93MA or WS-13).

However, it's reasonable to expect the PAF to continue using the JF-17B/C frames as a lot of work went into them (e.g. new FBW, space for integrated ECM, etc). Not to mention the integration work for SOWs, especially ALCMs.

IMO, the most cost-effective way to replace the older Block-Is when they age out (4000 hours) is to acquire more JF-17B/C-based fighters.

 

[Reichmarshal]

The things they skipped in block III should be incorporated into jf 17 n it should be called a block IV. Like IRST etc.....
Now with a higher thrust engine it should be turned into a monster......later on all block III n then maybe II should be brought to block Iv standard.
JF 17 block 1 n II have served their purpose n donevreally well for the PAF but now we are moving into the era of 6th gen. Fighters, whose first flight we are likely to see in early to middle 2030s.

 

[Bratva]

Well there is the twin engine aircraft requirement. But in addition, the nuclear role. In the late 2000's, the Mirages took that over completely, as the F16 was removed from it and the A-5 retired. The JF17 does likely a secondary role, but until the BlkIII and Thunder Bravos, it couldn't' carry the Ra'ad. I suspect the J31 will assume the deep penetration nuclear role.

Just a little correction. Ra'ad 1 has been integrated and tested with Block-2. 15-210 was the testbed for Ra'ad-1

 

[Be dazzled]

There would have been no sanction if Pakistan did not detonate a nuclear device. Pakistan chose to do what it did. The tradeoff for not having any of those twin-engined platforms is having a nuclear deterrent. Not a bad deal, IMO.

What about 1990s Pressler amendments that blocked additional F-16s? Yankees have played the hardball with PAK from time to time.

 

[AsaRad1]

Echoing ACM Shamim from his own book - when they first learned about the F-16 it seemed someone had read the PAF's Air Staff Requirement and build a fighter around it. It is the PERFECT fighter for what the PAF need(ed,s) as its mainstay. 50 years on still the perfect blend of power, speed, maneuverability, sensors and weapons capacity.

Any chance of viper upgrades or no?

Also what's their opinion on Falcon vs Dragon?

 

[VCheng]

What about 1990s Pressler amendments that blocked additional F-16s? Yankees have played the hardball with PAK from time to time.

We can take this up elsewhere if you wish but just think of the monumental cost Pakistan chose to pay for its nuclear baubles. Is it really more secure now with its economic and social development crises, one wonders.

 

[AsaRad1]

Yeah. IMO, one shouldn't underestimate the China route. We're talking about an industrial superpower with turnkey capacity. No other country aside from the US has that base, and Europe has to get together via consortiums to match it.

Basically, the J-10CE and J-31 aren't 'made cheap' per se, but they leverage the same great economies-of-scale, widescale (PLA) adoption, etc, that American fighters do. That's what makes them truly affordable (on top of any savings in production or labour).

In China, the PAF finally has a supplier akin to America in all the key ways. The only constraining factor is funding (or lack thereof).

The J-31 looks tiny though compared to Turkeys KAAN, doesn't a strike fighter need larger carrying capacity?

 

[AsaRad1]

We can take this up elsewhere if you wish but just think of the monumental cost Pakistan chose to pay for its nuclear baubles. Is it really more secure now with its economic and social development crises, one wonders.

The social and economic crises are entirely Pakistan's own doing due to chronic incompetence and lack of effective leadership

I don't think it has anything to do with acquiring nukes. It had plenty of chances to try and fix things but it plays stupid games instead.

 

[VCheng]

The social and economic crises are entirely Pakistan's own doing due to chronic incompetence and lack of effective leadership

I don't think it has anything to do with acquiring nukes. It had plenty of chances to try and fix things but it plays stupid games instead.

I will stay on topic here.

 

[Oscar]

Any chance of viper upgrades or no?

Also what's their opinion on Falcon vs Dragon?

Viper upgrades are done - there are enough spares to continue operations all the way until the end of their service life in the 2030s.