JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Bossman]

Harsh reality for Pakistan is except for Myanmar (a heavily sanctioned pariah nation) no country has purchased JF-17 in numbers worth mentioning.
Only other customer is Nigeria who has purchased a mere 3 and has not given any indication of purchasing any more.

I am old enough to remember 2010 Alan warnes article where he quoted a PAC official that Pakistan expects JF-17 exports to touch 150 by 2022.

There are factors other than hardware which are involved in sale of major military hardware I.e geopolitical influence, Financing etc. As far as JF 17 is concerned there are two documented cases where the export were stopped due to influence of a major power I.e Iraq and Argentina. That influence is pervasive in the Middle East. So please don’t worry about JF17, PAF doesn’t need exports to get confidence about the capabilities of the JF17s, Theygot that confidence when they used it against Indian and Iranian targets. So please worry about how your Air Force will deal with the JF17.

BTW what’s your view on export of 100s of K8 and Mashak’s around the world.

 

[Quwa]

The J-31 looks tiny though compared to Turkeys KAAN, doesn't a strike fighter need larger carrying capacity?

Indeed, but the concept of "strike" is evolving. In the PAF's case, the goal is about hitting very specific targets that may be deeper within Indian territory. If you can't ferry a heavy payload (e.g., in the J-31), you use smart munitions that - while smaller - will lean on accuracy, velocity, and other attributes to neutralize the target. You might even complement the J-31 with a UCAV that will be more of a bomb truck, so to speak, too.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Pakistan Air Force operates more than 175 JF-17 Thunders in 4 variants which speaks of confidence PAF has on the jet.

Since PAF decided to induct J-31 thus we may not see additional JF-17s but rather a comprehensive MLU program to elevate Block-II jets to Block-III standards.

 

[MIRauf]

If there were no sanctions, PAF would have gone for F14/F15/Tornado for the twin engine requirement of that era. 3 sqdrns.
There would have been no ROSE Mirages and no F7PG. The Super 7 would have beena J10 variant, if it did exist at all.

If memory serves me right, a token number of F-16s were offered, and when 100+ were suggested by Pak the President Clinton representative / point guy said it was not possible.

And here you are suggesting F-14/F-15s etc. US always wanted to be close to India and even before India became economic power house. Pak was it's second best choice.

Rauf

 

[Yommie]

Pakistan Air Force operates more than 175 JF-17 Thunders in 4 variants which speaks of confidence PAF has on the jet.

Since PAF decided to induct J-31 thus we may not see additional JF-17s but rather a comprehensive MLU program to elevate Block-II jets to Block-III standards.
View attachment 14738

Number coming on 200 fast

 

[MIRauf]

What about 1990s Pressler amendments that blocked additional F-16s? Yankees have played the hardball with PAK from time to time.

There would always had been this reason or that for non supply of high end offensive equipment (i.e sanctions,) post Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan there was no further need to keep Pak Armed forces happy and Indian Lobby had grown many folds from what it was in 60s/70s.

 

[MIRauf]

We can take this up elsewhere if you wish but just think of the monumental cost Pakistan chose to pay for its nuclear baubles. Is it really more secure now with its economic and social development crises, one wonders.

Likely would still be in same s..t shape due to Pak upper echelons decision / thinking, only saving grace is that due to nukes, Pak can responds to mis-adventures rather then to buckle under nuclear threat.

 

[Sparten]

If memory serves me right, a token number of F-16s were offered, and when 100+ were suggested by Pak the President Clinton representative / point guy said it was not possible.

Your memory is faulty. The F16 order was during the Reagan-Bush I administration. Not Clinton. During the incentives for us not testing in 1998, there was some suggestions but nothing concrete,.

And here you are suggesting F-14/F-15s etc. US always wanted to be close to India and even before India became economic power house. Pak was it's second best choice.

Rauf

The PAF has had an Air Staff Requirement for a twin engined fighter since the early 1990's. The F14/F15 never got beyond basic studies before sanctions.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[MIRauf]

Your memory is faulty. The F16 order was during the Reagan-Bush I administration. Not Clinton. During the incentives for us not testing in 1998, there was some suggestions but nothing concrete,.

The PAF has had an Air Staff Requirement for a twin engined fighter since the early 1990's. The F14/F15 never got beyond basic studies before sanctions.

We are discussing post Indian 90s Nuke test, not the 80s deals peace gate 1 & 2.

PS: F-15 made sense as Top Cover, and with F-15E even better deal, not sure where F-14 ( out of production by then and Tornado came from, never heard of it. ). per ACM Shamim, all PAF could afford was about 40 F-16s or 16 odd F-15s so it chose F-16s so it stuck with F-16 for Peace Gate II, III and IV.

 

[SaadH]

The JF-17 is a product of both the PAF's requirements and its reality at different points in time.

The design we see today is a result of what Chengdu could offer at the PAF's budget in the early 1990s. Had the JF-17 design work been extended past 1999 (rather than frozen and kicked into development), we may have seen a more ambitious design akin to the Tejas (relaxed stability, heavy composite use, etc) because Chengdu's design capacities evolved since 1994 (thanks to J-10).

Perhaps this other fighter would've been more attractive to the market, but it'd only be entering service now (like Tejas Mk1A), and at a higher cost. But the option was there, the PAF preferred the time, expediency, and lower cost. @Oscar

I wouldn't lose sleep over it, Grippen with all its advanced features and European pedigree as well as preceding JF-17 by at least a decade hasn't been an export success either.

 

[SaadH]

There would have been no sanction if Pakistan did not detonate a nuclear device. Pakistan chose to do what it did. The tradeoff for not having any of those twin-engined platforms is having a nuclear deterrent. Not a bad deal, IMO.

Nuclear detonation happened in '98, prior to that Pakistan was under pressler related restrictions/sanctions from '90 onwards.

 

[VCheng]

Nuclear detonation happened in '98, prior to that Pakistan was under pressler related restrictions/sanctions from '90 onwards.

and the reason for that timeline is what, in your view?

 

[MastanKhan]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it, Grippen with all its advanced features and European pedigree as well as preceding JF-17 by at least a decade hasn't been an export success either.

Hi,

It shows how difficult it is to sell an aircraft without the blessing of the USA---.

Gripen NG is a heck of an aircraft---. Its claims are as good as the swedes claim it to be----and yet---.

 

[VCheng]

巴西人不同意。

Isn’t that the menu entry for Hot and Sour soup? Or maybe it is Sweet and Sour soup? I can’t tell.