JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

The Gripen E is bigger and heavier than the Gripen C, essentially an almost new design with most of the systems being upgraded or replaced with new ones. Doing that to the JF-17 is beyond the capability of the aerospace industry in Pakistan, which hasn't attempted anything of that magnitude.

With the help of Turkiye and China it's possible sir

 

[Michael Corleone]

Pakistan can't afford to shut down production line of JF 17. Hence PFX program

But what is pfx? A strengthened larger airframe with 100% production capacity? If stealth, what materials are being used to make it? Any mockup/ prototype?

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

But what is pfx? A strengthened larger airframe with 100% production capacity? If stealth, what materials are being used to make it? Any mockup/ prototype?

No I believe just a massive upgraded version of block 3 JF-17 (avionics/AESAs and EW systems) and we can't able to develop the engine indigenously so most likely it'll have either Chinese WS-13IPE engine or WS19 engine, and name one stealth jet that develop from 4th generation CONVENTIONAL fighter jet? I think it will be slightly larger than current block 3 JF-17

And the project is still in the R&D/feasibility stage, so far no mockups or prototype

 

[Mrc]

How do we have the capability to convert JF-17 into low observability platform aka STEALTH without any foreign help (China or Turkiye) I don't think we have the capability for converting JF-17 into low observability (stealth) platform with ourselves and it will also needs lot of $$$ and time to complete

Watch and wait
Its a joint project with China BTW
Indian shows his colors no matter what flags he shows

 

[Deino]

Watch and wait
Its a joint project with China BTW
Indian shows his colors no matter what flags he shows

But a JV with China makes no sense, when this is type has only limited chances of success and Pakistan most likely needs to pay alone.

 

[Michael]

@hussain0216
The Chinese often say： ‘步子大了，容易扯到蛋 Too big a step.It's easy to rip your balls off.’

It's good to have good intentions. But they need to be measured.
If we scrutinise the JF17 situation, you will find a lot of problems.
1, All these aircraft, Pakistan provides the requirement and China does all the designing. What are the deeper reasons for these designs that Pakistani technicians can understand most of them?
2, The engines of the aircraft, China/Russia provide. Let's ignore the design and manufacturing for now. Can Pakistan do 100% maintenance of these engines?
3, The airframes of these aircraft are manufactured by Pakistan. Do Pakistani engineers fully understand the design reasons and specifications required for these airframes?
4, Aircraft control system, radar system .................. Too many.
If we disassemble the JF17 completely and assess the importance of the aircraft based on these parts. We can calculate the percentage of Pakistan's contribution in JF17 production work. I am sure it will be a very brutal figure.

China. From buying Su-27 to J16 overtaking in 20 years
Pakistan?

China has made its aircraft stealth skin technology public. And has begun mass production. It is very simple to use the stealth technology on the JF17 successor.
Pakistan should use more energy to expand the JF17 domestic percentage.

If one day China completely cuts off any support regarding JF17, Pakistan will still be able to continue to build JF17.
Then we will truly believe that Pakistan has the fighter manufacturing capability. At this time, we will take the initiative to come to Pakistan for co-operation. Instead of Pakistan wanting China to give help to Pakistan!

I've said some pretty nasty things. This is why I have been reluctant to talk about JF17. But this is what Pakistan needs.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Watch and wait
Its a joint project with China BTW
Indian shows his colors no matter what flags he shows

Oh bhai name one of STEALTH FIGHTER JET THAT DEVELPPED FROM 4TH GEN CONVENTIONAL FIGHTER JET?

 

[hussain0216]

@hussain0216
The Chinese often say： ‘步子大了，容易扯到蛋 Too big a step.It's easy to rip your balls off.’

It's good to have good intentions. But they need to be measured.
If we scrutinise the JF17 situation, you will find a lot of problems.
1, All these aircraft, Pakistan provides the requirement and China does all the designing. What are the deeper reasons for these designs that Pakistani technicians can understand most of them?
2, The engines of the aircraft, China/Russia provide. Let's ignore the design and manufacturing for now. Can Pakistan do 100% maintenance of these engines?
3, The airframes of these aircraft are manufactured by Pakistan. Do Pakistani engineers fully understand the design reasons and specifications required for these airframes?
4, Aircraft control system, radar system .................. Too many.
If we disassemble the JF17 completely and assess the importance of the aircraft based on these parts. We can calculate the percentage of Pakistan's contribution in JF17 production work. I am sure it will be a very brutal figure.

China. From buying Su-27 to J16 overtaking in 20 years
Pakistan?

China has made its aircraft stealth skin technology public. And has begun mass production. It is very simple to use the stealth technology on the JF17 successor.
Pakistan should use more energy to expand the JF17 domestic percentage.

If one day China completely cuts off any support regarding JF17, Pakistan will still be able to continue to build JF17.
Then we will truly believe that Pakistan has the fighter manufacturing capability. At this time, we will take the initiative to come to Pakistan for co-operation. Instead of Pakistan wanting China to give help to Pakistan!

I've said some pretty nasty things. This is why I have been reluctant to talk about JF17. But this is what Pakistan needs.

What do you think Pakistan is trying to do?, these things take time and you have to start somewhere
Pakistan has two very close allies in China and Turkey, their are multiple programmes and crossover interests that can be utilised to further our own interests

I believe PXF is a project with the aim of furthering Pakistani understanding and involvement on the bones of the the block 3s as opposed to creating some special 5th gen wonder plane

 

[Michael]

What do you think Pakistan is trying to do?, these things take time and you have to start somewhere
Pakistan has two very close allies in China and Turkey, their are multiple programmes and crossover interests that can be utilised to further our own interests

I believe PXF is a project with the aim of furthering Pakistani understanding and involvement on the bones of the the block 3s as opposed to creating some special 5th gen wonder plane

I don't think the Pakistani military-industrial establishment has this kind of processing power to work on multiple major programmes at the same time.

In Chinese philosophy, there is a theory that ‘the enemy is the best teacher’.
The United States of America has always been China's imaginary enemy, so China has taken the United States as its teacher in many ways. Even today, China has surpassed the United States in many aspects, but it is still learning from the United States. At the same time, I have observed that Pakistan has also taken India as its target and teacher in many ways. India is also learning from China in many ways.
This is a very good attitude and approach. However, in the field of military manufacturing, Pakistan has a better teacher than India(India's military industry is an international joke). Pakistan should first build a system of defence industry instead of going for face-saving projects. Build the foundation first before you start building tall buildings.
Though JF17 is not very advanced, but when Pakistan has a complete JF17 manufacturing system, any new breakthrough in advanced technology is a quick affair.
It took China decades to learn and build the basic system before they traded it for the explosive development of all kinds of new weapons in recent years.

Chinese logic Looking for JF17: B1 can be completely helped by others; B2 must intervene 50% on its own; B3 will be completely on its own. If you get to B3 and still have help from others, you will be scolded to death by the Chinese!
You can look at the situation of the various models of the Su-27 in China. If J11B still must need Russians, SAC technicians will be drowned by Chinese saliva.
If the Pakistani military-industrial establishment was really looking into these things as seriously as you say, the B3 wouldn't be in the CAC

 

[onlinpunit]

With the help of Turkiye and China it's possible sir

Will turkey and china collaborate over an aircraft ? Any past example ?

 

[Michael Corleone]

No I believe just a massive upgraded version of block 3 JF-17 (avionics/AESAs and EW systems) and we can't able to develop the engine indigenously so most likely it'll have either Chinese WS-13IPE engine or WS19 engine, and name one stealth jet that develop from 4th generation CONVENTIONAL fighter jet? I think it will be slightly larger than current block 3 JF-17

And the project is still in the R&D/feasibility stage, so far no mockups or prototype

Best of luck to Pakistan on this project. I was hoping to hear some news about project azm and collab with Turkey but maybe that’s not happening for now. Anyways jf17 is a export success and proven platform

 

[lightning f57]

It makes sense to have a JFX program to create production facilities to overhaul body of the future Kaan, J35 stealth fighters, where even indigenous systems and weapons can be integrated. Having 3 stealth planes seems way too much for a country like Pak.

If the idea is to have cheaper lighter low observability planes as bulk of the fleet and a smaller qualitative batch of planes for Kaan (50 units), same with J35 then maybe financially might make sense but then it needs significant input from allies.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Will turkey and china collaborate over an aircraft ? Any past example ?

Or not and either countries have vast experience to upgrade their jets in multiple times, let wait and see what will happen to PXF project

 

[onlinpunit]

Or not and either countries have vast experience to upgrade their jets in multiple times, let wait and see what will happen to PXF project

Wait and watch is only thing we can do now. PFX will be taken seriously only if the OEM chinese manufacturer releases some statements. Turkey and pak are bothers in arm but China & Turkey were never very friendly towards each other. Also china will be a bit uneasy for handing over source codes to a full time NATO member..

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Wait and watch is only thing we can do now. PFX will be taken seriously only if the OEM chinese manufacturer releases some statements. Turkey and pak are bothers in arm but China & Turkey were never very friendly towards each other. Also china will be a bit uneasy for handing over source codes to a full time NATO member..

We can put on PFX Turkish avionics without need of Chinese approval