JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

With the help of Turkiye and China it's possible sir

Why Turkey? The IP for the JF-17 lies with China. And China has all the infrastructure in place to do the design for an enlarged JF-17.

So is there any new infrastructure being set up for Pakistan to do all the heavy lifting when it comes to development or is it going to be providing requirements to China and leaving it to them to design and develop a heavier, larger JF-17 variant?

BTW, is this confirmed?
 
Regarding JF17 PFX, Can some knowledgeable inform precisely?


1. Is there any concrete evidence or reliable source confirming the existence of PFX, or is it merely a speculation based on a PowerPoint slide image?

2. Is PFX an upgrade program designed for existing JF-17 aircraft nearing their service life, similar to the MLU program?

3. Is PFX a modified version of the JF-17 Block-3, incorporating technologies from Turkey and other countries?

4. Is PFX an upgraded version of the JF-17, akin to the Block-4 upgrade?

5. Is PFX a larger and more advanced version of the JF-17, similar to the transition from Gripen C to Gripen E?

I think this question or its answer is almost like the "J-31 in Pakistan until late 2025"!

For some - including myself - this JF-17PFX is most likely no. 2 & 3, while others are convinced it something like no. 5 aka a new type, a semi-stealthy JF-17XL-PLUS!

Besides this single report and slide however we know nothing!

Honestly speaking, I am still stuck in # 1.
 
Regarding JF17 PFX, Can some knowledgeable inform precisely?


1. Is there any concrete evidence or reliable source confirming the existence of PFX, or is it merely a speculation based on a PowerPoint slide image?

2. Is PFX an upgrade program designed for existing JF-17 aircraft nearing their service life, similar to the MLU program?

3. Is PFX a modified version of the JF-17 Block-3, incorporating technologies from Turkey and other countries?

4. Is PFX an upgraded version of the JF-17, akin to the Block-4 upgrade?

5. Is PFX a larger and more advanced version of the JF-17, similar to the transition from Gripen C to Gripen E?

I think this question or its answer is almost like the "J-31 in Pakistan until late 2025"!

For some - including myself - this JF-17PFX is most likely no. 2 & 3, while others are convinced it something like no. 5 aka a new type, a semi-stealthy JF-17XL-PLUS!

Besides this single report and slide however we know nothing!
Sadly, given the broader environment in Pakistan, there is a fair chance that the PFX is, simply, vapourware. Between the J-10CE, J-31, and potentially even L-15, I can't actually see a need to add another platform.

While I do believe the Pakistani armed forces can muster cash (via unaccounted assets within and outside of the country), there's a limit to what they can do.

For example, the JF-17 itself was driven by necessity. If the Peace Gate III/IV F-16s came, the PAF would not have signed on with CAC. Rather, it would have built upon the F-16 as its principal mainstay fighter. Once the multirole requirement was set, the next phase in the PAF's plan was, likely, to acquire a strike fighter, like the JH-7A.

Similarly, the PAF now has access to the ideal multirole platform in J-10CE as well as a potential strike system in the J-31. In addition, it has acquired medium-to-long-range and long-range SAMs from China, and will likely acquire more via domestic means. So, that would help complement the quick-reaction element.

Where would the PFX fit? You could say the lightweight multirole segment, sure, but the JF-17 is already there. Perhaps we can argue that the PFX is an upgrade path for the JF-17, and I truly believe that to be the case. However, as long as the J-10CEs and J-31 can be bought, there's no urgent need to upgrade the JF-17s either.

Ultimately, the "X" is the key indicator. It likely means "experimental" and, potentially, the PFX could be a study of a potential upgrade of the JF-17. It may be something on offer to the export market for a while, but beyond that, I doubt it'll survive.

In fact, I suspect there are voices in the PAF (especially those poised to take over after the current CAS) that are looking in another direction. I think there may be a drive now to walk away from crewed fighters and, instead, pivot to UCAVs.

UCAV tech is likely a shorter climb for Pakistan's technical capabilities, especially small designs like 1,000-ton decoys. The PAF has already found a willing partner (Baykar from Turkiye), the economies-of-scale make more sense (especially for disposable designs) and there's overlap with other areas, like ALCM tech.
 
I don't think the Pakistani military-industrial establishment has this kind of processing power to work on multiple major programmes at the same time.

In Chinese philosophy, there is a theory that ‘the enemy is the best teacher’.
The United States of America has always been China's imaginary enemy, so China has taken the United States as its teacher in many ways. Even today, China has surpassed the United States in many aspects, but it is still learning from the United States. At the same time, I have observed that Pakistan has also taken India as its target and teacher in many ways. India is also learning from China in many ways.
This is a very good attitude and approach. However, in the field of military manufacturing, Pakistan has a better teacher than India(India's military industry is an international joke). Pakistan should first build a system of defence industry instead of going for face-saving projects. Build the foundation first before you start building tall buildings.
Though JF17 is not very advanced, but when Pakistan has a complete JF17 manufacturing system, any new breakthrough in advanced technology is a quick affair.
It took China decades to learn and build the basic system before they traded it for the explosive development of all kinds of new weapons in recent years.

Chinese logic Looking for JF17: B1 can be completely helped by others; B2 must intervene 50% on its own; B3 will be completely on its own. If you get to B3 and still have help from others, you will be scolded to death by the Chinese!
You can look at the situation of the various models of the Su-27 in China. If J11B still must need Russians, SAC technicians will be drowned by Chinese saliva.
If the Pakistani military-industrial establishment was really looking into these things as seriously as you say, the B3 wouldn't be in the CAC
Where has the idea that Pakistan is going solo on the PFX come from? Did I miss something? If the PFX proceeds, I don’t believe it’s anything more than another name for JF-17 block 4. Whether that means anything other than internal changes remains to be seen. Why would Pakistan go solo on this instead of following the same tried and tested methods it used to develop and operationalise the JF-17 blocks 1,2 and 3???
 
Where has the idea that Pakistan is going solo on the PFX come from? Did I miss something? If the PFX proceeds, I don’t believe it’s anything more than another name for JF-17 block 4. Whether that means anything other than internal changes remains to be seen. Why would Pakistan go solo on this instead of following the same tried and tested methods it used to develop and operationalise the JF-17 blocks 1,2 and 3???
This is a response based on another question. Please follow up on the previous thread.
 
The Gripen E is bigger and heavier than the Gripen C, essentially an almost new design with most of the systems being upgraded or replaced with new ones. Doing that to the JF-17 is beyond the capability of the aerospace industry in Pakistan, which hasn't attempted anything of that magnitude.
Even if doing that to the JF-17 is beyond the capability of the aerospace industry in Pakistan (as you're claiming), that does not mean it should not be attempted. You achieve some capability only after you attempt. The key to success is consistency and ability to learn. No one initially believed (except a few majnoon people) that Pakistan could contribute to the Thunder project as we later did. Let’s hope they are determined to repeat that story by achieving this goal too. Don’t undermine their capabilities.
 
Why Turkey? The IP for the JF-17 lies with China. And China has all the infrastructure in place to do the design for an enlarged JF-17.

So is there any new infrastructure being set up for Pakistan to do all the heavy lifting when it comes to development or is it going to be providing requirements to China and leaving it to them to design and develop a heavier, larger JF-17 variant?

BTW, is this confirmed?
IP is not with China. Pakistan has full control
 

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