Keel laying ceremony of Second Hangor Class Submarine held at Karachi Shipyard

[DarthVader]

If we buy it will be a few billion if we make them it will be few hundred million. we shouldn't put a price to Pakistan's security, let us learn from the Arab mistakes.

Arabs have money to throw and literally burn which Pak cant
They can hire the best people to work and companies to work with which Pak cant.

This only makes sense if you have larger ambitions at later stages and want to confront other non regional powers, nuclear subs have own advantages and disadvantage.

Subs can be designed for the role you looking for it doesnt need to be a nuclear sub only. For that you can design compact ballastic missiles for that.
Which in long term will be cheaper.

Biggest issue is Pakistan has no local infrastructure to design a project like that, only option will be to get kit from china and assemble i guess.

But the thing you wish it needs to make rational sense and fit in the needs as well.


Imagine this Pak buys a multi billion air craft carrier than what, can you fully use its capabilities, can you develop other systems to support it where the funds come.
Lets say Pak goes with 10 nuclear subs as you want to build in house thats the only you can lower the price as it needs to be developed in large numbers.
Thats what 3 to 4 decades to fully build this by that time you must be developing something new to upgrade these . Thats gone cost you extra.
Usually defence budget is between 5 to 10 b per year. Imagine now one project eating 500 to 700 million alone.
Its just not feasible

 

[Oscar]

Cost bro. India also has the Indian ocean and a Chinese navy three times it's size and growing.

Just the Indian coastline is 7 times the size of Pakistan and has much more varied ocean around it. The IN is substantially larger because it faces a serious challenge to tackle.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

IMHO PN is planning for a 12 boat fleet of submarines. Whenever the Yuan's join, along with the three Agosta's, will form a 11 boat sub fleet. 1 short of 12 boat fleet. This means that sometime near the end of this decade, PN will be looking to replace all the Agosta's and adding another sub to complete the 12 boat fleet. Or the three to four boat smaller submersibles being looked at as possible collaborative venture with Turkey will bring the fleet upto strength; 8+4 (Smaller Submersible) and 3 Agosta's will be retired past 2030.

 

[Zarvan]

cruise missiles are too slow we need submarine launched hypersonic nuclear missiles SLHNM

Cruise Missiles can be subsonic, Supersonic and HyperSonic. It depends on you how you good are.

 

[White Privilege]

First four are being built in China, this is second of four to be built in Pakistan.

Pakistan sure ain't messing around with all the IN upgradation taking place next door....

 

[White Privilege]

IMHO PN is planning for a 12 boat fleet of submarines. Whenever the Yuan's join, along with the three Agosta's, will form a 11 boat sub fleet. 1 short of 12 boat fleet. This means that sometime near the end of this decade, PN will be looking to replace all the Agosta's and adding another sub to complete the 12 boat fleet. Or the three to four boat smaller submersibles being looked at as possible collaborative venture with Turkey will bring the fleet upto strength; 8+4 (Smaller Submersible) and 3 Agosta's will be retired past 2030.

PN should also induct submersible drones especially for shadowing other enemy subs, to put own sub at lesser risk.

 

[Qureshi]

As mentioned in other PN thread, the following is the most practical choice...

PN ought to concentrate on Chinese SSKs that are in development phase based on the 039C (4k tonnes) class design with VLS (like South Korean SSKs).

There are unsubstantiated rumours that the Chinese are developing mini reactor of this type.

It would be ideal if PN went that approach & 8 such AIP-SSKs (N) with VLS would extensively enhance PN capabilities & refrain from having to make significant investments in SSNs to counter IN's SSN threat.

Further, Hangor & Augusta fleet will complement this type while PN is also in talks with Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri for their S800/1000 Shallow water SSK based on U212/4 design to replace midget subs.

Seem quite a few have miss-read my above post, let me clarify...

SSK-N

• I suggested a forthcoming type that is based on the 039C design and has VLS, similar to the "Jang Bogo class" in S. Korea, but I haven't stated that 039C has VLS.
• The upcoming sub (SSK-N ??) is in development phase & haven't got any designation yet, Chinese are developing mini reactor for it.
• This AIP (SSK-N??) will be equipped with lithium-ion batteries along with mini reactor enable her to stay submerged for extended time with other advantages in comparison to SSKs.
• For PN this upcoming sub is an excellent low-cost option in comparison to obtain SSN to counter INs SSN threat.

SSPs

• PN is in talks with STM & Fincantieri for their respected designs.
• Seems its quite evident that PN has revisited its doctrine from midget to shallow water subs.
• PN is more towards Italian design as their S800/1000 is based on mature U212/4 design.
• Haven't said that these SSPs have VLS.

Construction

• Haven't mentioned that above suggested subs will be built in KSEW.
• Most probably if PN selected, above subs will be constructed in their respected shipyards.

Conclusion

Hope it's clear now.

Combination of SSK-N + SSK + SSP will make PN's underwater fleet be a potent force in Arabian sea & Indian Ocean.

 

[m52k85]

Seem quite a few have miss-read my above post, let me clarify...

SSK-N

• I suggested a forthcoming type that is based on the 039C design and has VLS, similar to the "Jang Bogo class" in S. Korea, but I haven't stated that 039C has VLS.
• The upcoming sub (SSK-N ??) is in development phase & haven't got any designation yet, Chinese are developing mini reactor for it.
• This AIP (SSK-N??) will be equipped with lithium-ion batteries along with mini reactor enable her to stay submerged for extended time with other advantages in comparison to SSKs.
• For PN this upcoming sub is an excellent low-cost option in comparison to obtain SSN to counter INs SSN threat.

SSPs

• PN is in talks with STM & Fincantieri for their respected designs.
• Seems its quite evident that PN has revisited its doctrine from midget to shallow water subs.
• PN is more towards Italian design as their S800/1000 is based on mature U212/4 design.
• Haven't said that these SSPs have VLS.

Construction

• Haven't mentioned that above suggested subs will be built in KSEW.
• Most probably if PN selected, above subs will be constructed in their respected shipyards.

Conclusion

Hope it's clear now.

Combination of SSK-N + SSK + SSP will make PN's underwater fleet be a potent force in Arabian sea & Indian Ocean.

Why would the SSK-N need battery based AIP when a mini-nuclear reactor is already present? SSK designation has been traditionally reserved for 'diesel-electric attack' subs, so your use of SSK-N nomenclature is really confusing.

P.S. The Jang Bogo class is the old one, I think you mean KSS-III (Dosan Ahn Changho-class).

 

[arslank01]

• PN is more towards Italian design as their S800/1000 is based on mature U212/4 design.

no- its based off of the Amur class. The S800 is a miniaturisation of the S1000- a design pitched for P75i to the Indian navy.

Amur has a VLS module but i am unsure of the S1000 ever did

 

[arslank01]

PN should also induct submersible drones especially for shadowing other enemy subs, to put own sub at lesser risk.

PN is already seriously interested in high end UUV's from Europe

 

[maverick]

So 8 total Hangor + 3 Agosta 90s.

Not bad for Pakistan, 11 sub is a good start... next should be 4-6 Nuke subs Type94.

 

[maverick]

unfortunately, political uncertainty since its inception has ruined economy, otherwise PN and PAF wouldve been top notch forces..

 

[Waz]

So 8 total Hangor + 3 Agosta 90s.

Not bad for Pakistan, 11 sub is a good start... next should be 4-6 Nuke subs Type94.

Cost is way too much. Anything of this type would be around $700 million dollars. It would be 2 vessels max

 

[maverick]

Cost is way too much. Anything of this type would be around $700 million dollars. It would be 2 vessels max

Need that capability... It will change the dynamics of warfare.