Martin-Baker: A Pakistan Air Force JF-17 Block 2 aircraft, On Wednesday 5th June crashed near the Jhang district. The pilot successfully ejected.

[Mrc]

LoL keep seething. All those articles have latest photo of Tejas in Surat Airport attached.

It ran out of petrol whole flying in peace time according to news
Even bus drivers have more sense of fuel
This is pretty much unique one and only incidence in history or it's a cover story

 

[Oscar]

Atleast Indian does not hide the incident.

Su 30 was crashed, no one tried to hide.

It is a common mentality - if someone hiding then it creates more interest of other people to exploit them.

If they just stated the facts and accepted, no one was having internet to post here anything including me

They have no denied it either - simply not made a statement otherwise.

This is different from the policy of the previous air chiefs. So if dectractors are to be believed it’s a case of one man doing all he can for his image but more likely it’s just a case of overall disarry in the country where negative perceptions of the military are at such an all time high some problems are just no longer being disclosed.

Aircraft fly - and have issues - those like the JF-17 which are flown at high rates and given a much rougher treatment compared to F-16s simply because the PAF is capable of supporting every need for it and simply overhauls it when needed - the jet is not immune to Murphy’s law.

If anything, seeing the immediate counter posts of Tejas on this thread tells me its now getting the flight hours expected and pilots from an average perspective so its attrition will pick up too.

The monkey jumping by certain posters on the PAF hiding a JF-17 crash is not completely unwarranted but is exaggerated or misleading to the intention.

 

[Oscar]

LoL keep seething. All those articles have latest photo of Tejas in Surat Airport attached.

Glad it made it back after flameout.
The last one did not make it - and as the Tejas starts coming close to the flight hours the Jf-17s manage monthly it too will see inevitable man/machine failures. Either keep it in the hangar or expect things to go wrong…

 

[Jango]

They have no denied it either - simply not made a statement otherwise.

This is different from the policy of the previous air chiefs. So if dectractors are to be believed it’s a case of one man doing all he can for his image but more likely it’s just a case of overall disarry in the country where negative perceptions of the military are at such an all time high some problems are just no longer being disclosed.

Aircraft fly - and have issues - those like the JF-17 which are flown at high rates and given a much rougher treatment compared to F-16s simply because the PAF is capable of supporting every need for it and simply overhauls it when needed - the jet is not immune to Murphy’s law.

If anything, seeing the immediate counter posts of Tejas on this thread tells me its now getting the flight hours expected and pilots from an average perspective so its attrition will pick up too.

The monkey jumping by certain posters on the PAF hiding a JF-17 crash is not completely unwarranted but is exaggerated or misleading to the intention.

Balanced PoV.

We have seen outright denial in the past, but that was more for terrorism incidents.

On to the larger point though, inhi chutyapon ki waja say ham apni izzat mitti main mila dete hain.

Be up front about things, be transparent, if there is any flaw, you discuss it, publish it, tell the world that you have identified the root cause and eliminated it, so it won't happen again. This is what happens all over the engineering world.

 

[Ghseean]

Balanced PoV.

We have seen outright denial in the past, but that was more for terrorism incidents.

On to the larger point though, inhi chutyapon ki waja say ham apni izzat mitti main mila dete hain.

Be up front about things, be transparent, if there is any flaw, you discuss it, publish it, tell the world that you have identified the root cause and eliminated it, so it won't happen again. This is what happens all over the engineering world.

it's all about mind set that ain't changing it seems. if someone go little deep into it and interrogate the matter or any such matter at hand. you'll be surprised as there will be no logic or otherwise something comes out so ridiculous and that they have no clue what they are taking about.

it actually denies ideas or innovations, learning process is compromised. no matter why we are a nation full of A-H.

 

[kmc_chacko]

I can confirm from my sources there are currently no aircraft in the PAF inventory.

Between 10 April 2022 and 11 June 2024, over 100 have crashed, over 100 have defected to Afghanistan, over 100 have been grounded and over 100 were donated to Bangladesh.

jokes apart, right or wrong it seems Pakistan public no more bother about what establishment do.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Glad it made it back after flameout.
The last one did not make it - and as the Tejas starts coming close to the flight hours the Jf-17s manage monthly it too will see inevitable man/machine failures. Either keep it in the hangar or expect things to go wrong…

Look, these are flying aircraft, and it is impossible to completely prevent terrible situations.

The air forces can minimize the incidents to the maximum by performing proper maintenance.

IAF has a lot more aircraft and is a considerably bigger force. Su-30mki, for instance, is flying from the 2000s and has about 260 units in it.

maintaining an accident record similar to that of JF17 aircraft, 5 incidents but criticism was voiced by Pakistani members on a different thread.

Even if the most recent F35 has a poor record, people are unaware of its flying hours. Since you recently bought Tejas, I'm sure that you are also unaware of Tejas's current flight hours.

So usually members do not care or study, they reply as troll & fun. these usually asks other members to post, even if they do not want to make useless posts... even I did the same thing previously on the thread

 

[Deino]

No credible new source @Waz @mushing

Come on!

It is the official Twitter account from Martin Baker similar to this even if on Facebook.
As such, when they report such news, it's more than an official confirmation and regardless how much you don't like it, it is a proven fact! So why this mess?

Martin-Baker Aircraft Co.

Martin-Baker Aircraft Co. 37 likes · 104 talking about this. New official Martin-Baker Account. Previous account is no longer active. 7723 Lives Saved to date 🔻

www.facebook.com

 

[Waz]

Come on!

It is the official Twitter account from Martin Baker similar to this even if on Facebook.
As such, when they report such news, it's more than an official confirmation and regardless how much you don't like it, it is a proven fact! So why this mess?

View attachment 47627

Martin-Baker Aircraft Co.

Martin-Baker Aircraft Co. 37 likes · 104 talking about this. New official Martin-Baker Account. Previous account is no longer active. 7723 Lives Saved to date 🔻

www.facebook.com

I know someone who works for them high up.
But yes the source is solid.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Then why cover it up

Who says it's a cover up? It's just hasn't been announced yet.

Obviously, there's been changes in the way things are being announced.

Do you think there was a "cover up" from June 2021 when the J-10 was purchased but not officially announced until January 2022?

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Who says it's a cover up? It's just hasn't been announced yet.

Obviously, there's been changes in the way things are being announced.

Do you think there was a "cover up" from June 2021 when the J-10 was purchased but not officially announced until January 2022?

It's called cover up.

Example - someone killed someone, you are a eyes witness, police asked everyone if they saw the killer... Everyone keep quiet including you.

Later if you say, I not denied that I have seen the murder. Proof me if I have denied it. I am innocent here... Anyway It's also called "cover up".. purpose could be different might you fear or might you are friend of murder.. etc

People around the world not fool actually and they do understand, why Pakistani airforce keeping silent on this. Everyone understands the purpose

 

[TAC]

It's called cover up.

Example - someone killed someone, you are a eyes witness, police asked everyone if they saw the killer... Everyone keep quiet including you.

Later if you say, I not denied that I have not seen the murder. Proof me if I have denied it. I am innocent here... Anyway It's also called "cover up".. purpose could be different might you fear or might you are friend of murder.. etc

People around the world not fool actually and they do understand, why Pakistani airforce keeping silent on this. Everyone understands the purpose

There are much more appropriate examples of ‘cover up’ eg. You go to bomb another country to try to get more votes, but all u hit are some trees so u ‘cover up’ the mess and pretend it was a big success OR your clueless pilot gets shot down , has all the missiles still with his plane wreck but u still ‘cover up’ by saying that he shot down an F-16 just before he went down and even give him a medal for itI agree, people around the world are not fooled. I would suggest that those are real cover ups when compared to an accident that just hasn’t been announced.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

There are much more appropriate examples of ‘cover up’ eg. You go to bomb another country to try to get more votes, but all u hit are some trees so u ‘cover up’ the mess and pretend it was a big success OR your clueless pilot gets shot down , has all the missiles still with his plane wreck but u still ‘cover up’ by saying that he shot down an F-16 just before he went down and even give him a medal for itI agree, people around the world are not fooled. I would suggest that those are real cover ups when compared to an accident that just hasn’t been announced.

Read my post - 97

I said , members just dragged other members for unnecessary comments... Well wasn't su30 MKI shoot down... Just take similar to f16 claim.. and chil out.. both are not related to this thread also comes under different category called- propaganda which both countries did.

 

[DDG-80]

In reality, JF-17 production has stopped since 2022. They haven't had new jets produced; 170 is the number going on since 2020. The last news of the JF-17, apart from crashes and taking part in airshows, etc., was in 2023 for its induction (Block 3). Pakistan ordered the J-10C and is waiting for the FC-31. Only 12 Block-3s have been made so far. Azerbaijan has not ordered those 24 jets. The initial order was of 30 by PAF. Not even a single Block 2A or Block 2B has been made after 2022. I doubt they can make 24 jets per year. Pakistan hailed the JF-17 as a permanent solution but ordered the J-10. The last JF-17 Block 2A delivered was in 2019, and Block 2B in 2020. 12 JF-17 Block 3s were produced from 2022 to early 2023, indicating a production gap. JF-17 Block 1 has limited capabilities in all domains; Block 2B is mostly a trainer, so 100 proper fighter aircraft are in service. Pakistan has 20 J-10Cs and 75 F-16s; all Mirages are from the 1960s and 1970s. Pakistan has not more than 200 proper fighter jets in service. Out of 75 F-16s, only 57 are BVR capable, while JF-17s are not truly multirole aircraft. Only 30-40 Mirage 3 and 5s can carry standoff munitions but will require heavy escort like they did in 2019 with two squadrons worth of escort for a single target that they missed. The PAF is still a sitting duck. EW aircraft in Pakistan are used as VIP transport for the Pakistani air chief. Block 2 and older F-16s would be at the mercy of jammers.

 

[Awwad]

Since you are still lurking here then learn from your own as what's called cover up.

This is epic cover-up:



Actually the thing is both countries cannot justify the cover ups by saying that you do that too. Two wrongs cannot make a right. The best thing is to declare it as soon as it happens. Now we are hearing another Tejas is crashed :



I will wait for more evidence to believe on it, such as Martin baker confirming it couple of days later. I think military of both Pakistan and India need to work on their transparency. However, if Pakistani military hides anything, we cannot justify it by saying india does it too. You should only have to influence from good things and good attributes of others. Your benchmark should be higher. Transparency gives trust to the nation. That's important.