Misc. Bookmarked Posts

[Bilal]

1. KZ-1A's motor diameter is 1.2m, Ababeel's dia is 1.4m.
2. KZ-1A has a max payload fairing diameter of 1.4m, Ababeel's fairing is much larger at 1.7-1.8m.
3. KZ-1A's payload capacity is 200kg to a 700km orbit, which is far far less than Ababeel's probable payload of >1000kg (3xMIRVs) touching ~600km apogee.

Now take your sorry tushy back to BR or wherever you go to vent out your frustration.

Actually, KZ-1A's first and second stage is 1.4m


Actually the first and second stages of the KZ-1A is 1.4m. It uses the L-SpaB-140B, although the Shaheen II series probably use a derivative of the older less powerful L-SpaB-140A motors.

You're right that KZ-1A can lift 200 kg to a SSO (Sun-Synchronous Orbit), but probably more, ~ 400 kg to a LEO,
The Ababeel could probably lift 150 - 250 kg to a LEO 600 Km orbit. I.E less powerful than the KZ-1A.

I meant to refer to the 3rd and 4th stage where it gets much narrower (1.2m), while Ababeel remains at 1.4m throughout (except where the MIRV bus and payload fairing begin).

True about the payload capacity to orbit part, I meant to convey that the base stages and consequently 3rd stage of Ababeel is built to boost much more than 200kg. Assuming a bare minimum of 300kg per RV, that puts the total payload (including 3xRVs, MIRV-bus) to anywhere between 1000-1500kg.

Also, 3rd stage is not solid-fueled as per above sketch. Similarly the claim for same motors for KZ-1A and Ababeel/S-II/S-III is shady, its not possible that China used a 30 years old motor design in a modern day SLV.

Oh yeah. That's why I said the KZ-1A/DF-21D/DF-26 usesa new L-SpaB-140B, as oppose to the M-18/Ababeel/S-II/S-III that probably use an older gen L-SpaB-140.

'First stage motor is 1,40 meters in diameter, having a total mass of 16,621 kg, a burn time of 65 seconds and an impulse of 2,352 Ns/kg. The Second stage motor is 1,40 meters in diameter, having a total mass of 8,686 kg, a burn time of 62 seconds and an impulse of 2,810 NS/kg. The Third stage motor is 1,20 meters in diameter, having a total mass of 3,183 kg, a burn time of 55 seconds and an impulse of 2,850 NS/kg.'

@Karl , do you own or contribute to this website by any chance?
http://www.b14643.de/

Just curious.

 

[Bilal]

National Tokomak Fusion Program ia back in PSDP!

Pakistan's metallic (not GLAST!) Tokamak reactor is back in the 2017 -2018 budget, albeit with 'unapproved status. Total cost is 423.509 million RP with 100 milion to be spent 2017 -2018.

Expect it to be similar to China's now decommissioned HT-7

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HT-7

http://tempest.das.ucdavis.edu/pdg/HT7/HT7new.html

http://pc.gov.pk/uploads/archives/PSDP_2017-18.pdf

 

[Bilal]

http://www.unoosa.org/documents/pdf/psa/activities/2017/SouthAfrica/slides/Presentation48.pdf

Pakistan National Student Satellite Program is in the Engineering Model phase. Likely completion is 2020 on an indigenous SLV (a pakistan version similar to China's new KT-2 http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/Kaituozhe-2/Description/Frame.htm)

 

[Bilal]

The PRSS is or was scheduled to be launched In March 2018. The Pakistan Technology Evaluation Satellite or PakTES-1 which is to be launched with PRSS-1 does NOT include a SAR payload! Although, from what I have learnt (from secret sources) is that PakTes-1 was developed largely by Suparco but much of the instrumentation and components come from South Africa's Space Advisory Company http://www.spaceadvisory.com/ (Pakistan, not being able to manufacture some of these high quality critical components like lenses etc due to a lack of industrial capacity).

 

[Bilal]

Some highlights of PSDP 2018 -2019

http://pc.gov.pk/uploads/archives/PSDP_2018-19_Final.pdf

PAKISTAN ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION

National Tokomak Fusion Program - Hopefully this is for an actual Tokamak reactor like China's HT-6B/6M or HT-7.

Expenditure up to 30.06.2018 - 100.000 (Rupees Million)
Allocation 2018-19 - 166.231 (Rupees Million)

Acquisition and Development of Land for NPP Project Site Rangpur ? Is this the same project as the NPP in Muzzafargarh?? Who knows. Hopefully it's an indigenous NPP development.

Estimated Cost 1350.000 (Rupees Million)
Allocation 2018-19 - 300.000 (Rupees Million)


Pakistan Research Reactor-3 (10MWthupgradeable to 20 MWth) - YES!! NEW PARR-3 Research reactor as I predicted!!!

Estimated Cost 4000.000 (Rupees Million)
Allocation 2018-19 - 700.000 (Rupees Million)

S U P A R C O
New Schemes:

Establishment of Space Applications Research Centre Gilgit-Baltistan

Pakistan Multi-Mission Satellite (PakSat-MMI), Lahore & Karachi

Pakistan Space Center (PSC), Islamabad, Lahore & Karachi (China)

Would have liked to have seen more $ for an indigenous NPP based off Kanupp-1, laser enrichment, SLV and Space launch facility but good schemes getting approved overall. Hope to see results!

What are you highlights?

-

 

[Bilal]

There has been a lot of speculation recently about Pakistans upcoming satellite launches and why these are not being indigenously launched by a Pakistani space launch vehicle. Here are some clarifications.

PRSS-O1 (The O is for optical) is an Electro Optical satellite manufactured by CGWIC. It will likely have a mass exceeding 1000kg (too heavy for a 1st generation Pakistani SLV to lift) and will likely have a 1 m panchromatic and a 4 m multi-spectral imaging system. It may also features 30 m SWIR and 60 m LWIR imagers (infra red imaging). It will NOT be a Synthetic Aperature Radar (SAR) Satellite, and it will not carry any sort of SAR payload.

PakTes-1A is a 285kg low to medium E/O remote sensing satellite indigenously developed by Suparco but with the payload (instrumentation, cameras, imagers) subcontracted to South Africa's 'Space Advisory Company'. Optical payload in <3m PAN and <6m MS resolution. This satellite is a TESTBED satellite for future indigenous projects.

It is cheaper for Pakistan to co-launch PakTes-1A with PRSS-O1.

Future Satellites (with China):

Top of the range: Earth Observation

PRSS-S1 - Will be the SAR satellite, to be bought from China in future years, but who knows when?

PRSS-O2 - Will be the follow on from PRSS-O1 to be launched in 5 years. Also very likely to be bought from China.

Top of the range: Communication Sats:

Pakistan Multi-Mission Satellite-1 (May feature X band transponders for military communications as well as Ka transponders). Will be a 50:50 joint venture with China in terms of build. Pakistan is likely to build the satellite Bus, China to provide payload.

PAKSAT-II - Communication Sat to follow on from PAKSAT-1R. Likely to be built by China.

Pakistan Multi-Mission Satellite-2: Follow on from Paksat-MM1. Maybe greater pakistani imput in payload development?

Future Satellites - 'Indigenous'

PakTes-1B; Optical Remote Sensing satellite. Follow on from PakTes-1A (Suparco Project)

Pakistan National Student Satellite Project. (Pakistani universities project)
PNSS-1 Platform Specifications
▪ Communication : UHF and VHF
▪ Structure : Cuboid, Body mounted Solar Panels
▪ Envelop : 500 (mm) x 500 (mm) x 500 (mm)
▪ Orbit : LEO (500 km)
▪ Attitude Control : 3-axis stabilized
▪ Power : > 50 Watts
▪ CDHS : Distributed Architecture CAN Bus
- Weight 50 kg


PNSS-1 Payload Specifications
▪ High Resolution Camera
• Swath Width
29 km- 25 km
• Spectral Range
450nm-750nm
(Visible)
▪ Low Resolution Camera
• Swath Width
66 km- 49 km
• Spectral Range
400nm-1000nm
(Visible)
▪ Lightening Detector Unit.
• Detects the variations caused by the Lightening Effect

ICUBE-2. (3U Cubesat) Small cubesat. Follow on from ICUBE-1 IST university project.

There is ZERO chance that any of these satellites apart from the last 3 will be launched from a Pakistan SLV. In any case, a Pakistan SLV would look very much like China's Kaituozhe-2, and Pakistan would likely launch a dummy satellite as a first test. Something of very low value.

 

[Bilal]

Yeah, that's true, no ICBMs. Replacing the "C" with an "R" will neutralize all present and foreseeable threats.

As I've said before, the SLV program is on the way again. It will be purely for satellite delivery, no nukes. This time it is not a makeshift solution, rather a whole family of liquid-fueled vehicles will be developed, gradually. Given that, and the low-priority status of the project, it will take a while to get it done.

If @The Deterrent is correct then Pakistan will likely develop something based off China's Naga L http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/Naga-L/Description/Text.htm which China wants to export to third countries or team up with one of China's new state backed commercial SLV launching companies http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/Companies_SLV/Description/Frame.htm (see OneSpace-2 or Zhuque-2) or co-develop a liquid SLV with Turkey for the UFA http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/Rest_World/UFA/Description/Frame.htm.


Either way it won't be quick as Pakistan has very limited experience with liquid fueled engines. It bought Nodongs from North Korea but even the NK's have developed a RD-250 clone now and Pakistan won't receive the kind of assistance India did when the USA transferred Scout technology (solid fuel casting/engines) and declassified Atlas technology for the liquid fueled engines for the PSLV/GSLV series.

Does that mean SUPARCO is the lead on this one?

Nope, SUPARCO's job will be limited to developing the satellites. An alliance of already experienced players will take the lead for developing launch capability.



Highly unlikely that Pakistan will reach for help to anyone except across the Himalayas.

 

[Bilal]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) You say that PRSS-O1 has a life of around 5-7 years, but Pakistan is likely to require a constellation of E/O satellites in operation at any one time (maybe 3/4) for continuous coverage and redundancy (Israel has its Ofeq series plus its 'commercial' EROS series where it sells images to companies (and also uses for military applications as well), so Pak will have to launch a new E/O sat in the next 2/3 years to get the cycle going.

Similarly, Pakistan is leasing capacity at the moment from already in orbit Comm sats and has the dedicated Paksat-IR. In the near future it plans to supplement these so it has 2-4 in operation at any one time. Pakistan's goal is clear, it would like to manufacture these and any other SAR/PNSS satellites itself. Certainly for the lighter remote sensing sats indigenous launch is possible.


Agree on the 2/3 per year launch cycle. Sounds about right.


Launch


Here's the PRSS-1 satellite.

According to reports the satellite's specifications are as follows:

Satellite bus: CAST2000
Cameras resolution: 1 m (pan-chromatic) / 4 m (multi-spectral)
Camera swath width: >60 km
Designed life time: 7 years

(Probably contains Infrared LWIR and SWIR imagers as well.) BUT NO SAR

NO. The SAR will be PRSS-S1. The PRSS-O2 will be another E/O (optical) satellite. This is why you should use an O instead of a zero (0). The O is for Optical. S= Synethetic Aperature Radar.

SAR satellite will likely be similar to China's Huanjing-1C http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/hj-1c.htm or maybe payload from South Africa's Space Advisory Company, either DragonSAR (more likely) or FalconSAR (less likely) http://scs-space.com/satellites/dragonsar-2/. Turkey is currently developing Gokturk-3 SAR
View attachment 485249

and Argentina is developing
SAOCOM 1A, 1B
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/saocom-1.htm

and Ukraine is developing Sich 3R http://www.yuzhnoye.com/en/technique/space-vehicles/earth-observation/sich-3-r/

So cooperation opportunities exist, but likely PRSS-S1 will be chinese on either CAST968B Bus (Huanjing-1C) or the newer CAST 3000B/CS-L3000B bus (Gaofen-3) .

Not sure any this is funded or when the SAR will fly. Maybe they will launch PRSS-O2 first then PRSS-S1? Depends on money and what technology China will give to Pak.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) Looks like PRSS-O2 will come before PRSS-S1. Likely because SAR technology is fairly new and China will be unwilling to share it until it itself moves on to a more advanced SAR system, then it will share older Gaofen-3 technology with Pakistan. China never shares its latest technology (no state does) in order to keep a technological edge.

Also, as per naming convention, we should stop referring to Pakistan Navigation Satellite System (PakNav) as PNSS. Instead just call it PakNav. PNSS is also the acronym for Pakistan National Student Satellite System, which will be a series of student satellites. PNSS-1, PNSS-2, PNSS-3 etc... So it will be very confusing. These systems are very different.

http://www.app.com.pk/govt-facilitate-development-satellites/

Govt to facilitate for development of satellites
May 27, 2018
30

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ISLAMABAD, May 27 (APP):The government has planned to establish an indigenous facility for development of satellites in accordance with international space standards under its annual development plan for 2018-19.
The facility – Pakistan Space Centre will have capability to carry out manufacturing, testing, system level assembly, integration, launch and operations of various types of satellites.
As per Information and Communication Technology Annual Plan 2018-19, major thrust includes that Pakistan Multi-Mission Satellite (PakSat-MM1) will cater to demand of Direct-To-Home (DTH), High-Throughput Services (HTS)/Broadband Internet and Strategic SatCom.
The PC-II has already been approved and during next year, PC-I will be submitted for approval and subsequent execution of the project.
Moreover, feasibility study of Pakistan’s 2nd Optical Remote Sensing Satellite (PRSS-O2) will be completed. PRSS-O2 aims to launch a sub-meter resolution remote sensing satellite.
Feasibility and System Definition Study (FSDS) of Pakistan Navigation Satellite System (PakNav) will also be carried out. PakNav will enable Pakistan to have independent satellite navigation for both civilian and strategic purposes.
The government would focus on competing in international arena, and accelerating pace of e-government to facilitate citizens to avail public services.
The document said Rs 6,535 million have been earmarked for ICT sector under Public Sector Development Programme (PSDP)2018-19 which is aimed at improving capacity of IT industry by further providing infrastructure and facilities for startups and small IT businesses.
The other objective of allocation in ICT sector is to increase quality of skills and capacity of organizations to consistently deliver high quality services and products and raising their standard.
The other thrust include Cross-Border OFC system between China and Pakistan for international connectivity of voice and data traffic under aegis of China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) which will enable alternative route for international internet connectivity.
Development of Technology Parks to facilitate rapidly growing entrepreneurial ecosystem in the country, participation in 15 major international exhibitions to generate export business, and training of 3,500 professional and 500 executives from IT and ITeS industry in latest technologies in demand and business development/international marketing respectively would also be focused.
Some other domains include 70 more companies will be provided consultancy to attain certification of CMMI level-2,CMMI level-3, CMMI level-5 and ISO 27,001/ 20,000 international standards through Ministry of Information Technology’s project entitled “Enhancing IT Exports through Industry Support Programmes,” and placement of 3,000 ICT graduates in public and private sector organizations under Prime Minister’s ICT Internship Programme.

 

[Bilal]

Chemical Processing Plant (CPP) at Chashma - still no where near complete - 95.000 million Ru only this year. This is a project with over a $100 million dollar budget

National Tokomak Fusion Programme - 170.844 million Ru this year- Will we get a small spherical Tokamak reactor out of the total 437.154 million Ru spent on this? Like China's H-7? We'll see.

Pakistan Research Reactor-3 (10MWth upgradable to 20 MWt) New RR at Pinstech announced last year, but spending only starting this year. It's a replacement for PARR-1. 400 this year out of a total cost of 4671.050 million Ru

S U P A R C O:

Feasibility and System Definition Study
(FSDS) of Pakistan's Optical Remote
Sensing Satellite (PRSS-02), Islamabad,
Lahore & Karachi - 331.166 total cost, 100 million Ru this year.

Looks like PRSS-02 will come before any SAR satellite capability.


Pakistan Multi-Mission Satellite (PakSat-
MMI) Lahore and Karachi

34667.869 million Ru total cost - PakSat-1R replacement

Enhancement of Facilities, Institute of
Space Technology (IST), Islamabad




https://www.pc.gov.pk/uploads/archives/PSDP_2019-20_Final.pdf

 

[Bilal]

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[Bilal]

Western analysts are trying their best to downplay KN-23 and disassociate it with the Iskander-M for some reason, but its clear that they didn't build this missile out of thin air. NK was provided the designs and they just introduced their own modifications on it.
This is the same case as with the current NK ICBMs (HS-12/13/14). For a while NK was failing to manufacture a reliable ICBM because of sub-optimal liquid engines. Then some Russian engines appear out of the blue, and viola, the new ICBM designs worked as intended.

Pakistan is also working on the similar type of quasi-ballistic SRBMs (Iskander etc.), its just a matter of time now.

 

[Bilal]

I'm afraid the 'rocket technology' (or more precisely the solid-fuel grain) of Ababeel/Shaheen-III's motors is equivalent to what the Indians used on Agni-III, back in 2006.

IMO, the Isp of Iskander/Shaurya/Grom (i.e. quasi-ballistic missiles) is much higher than the conventional ICBM soild-fuel. In simple words, high Isp fuel generates more thrust, and can burn slower and longer for the same amount of thrust (not always though). This results in the capability to design a solid rocket motor that can propel an SRBM for longer sustained duration, inside the atmosphere.


Shaheen-IA/III & Ababeel have better solid fuel grain than older Shaheen-I/II.

 

[kimjongun]

Bro can you tell where are you picking the talks from? any threads , also was KARL the owner of b14643?

 

[Bilal]

Bro can you tell where are you picking the talks from? any threads , also was KARL the owner of b14643?

This is some posts I tried saving from the previous forum. At that time it was supposed to be shutdown.

 

[kimjongun]

he was saying pakistan working on a quasi based SRBM , can that be linked to fatah?