Operation Azm-e-Istehkam | آپریشن عزم استحکام

[VCheng]

How? Everything happened before for the past 35 years. We need not to worry.

As they say, NMFP. That is for Pakistanis to figure out the how, if they so wish, and if and when to worry or not. Others cannot do either for them at all, that much is clear to me.

 

[Cipher212]

Kya bana phir? Whatever information I find online about the goal of this op seems like they're just giving a fancy name to what they're already doing. It's not going to be a full boots on the ground type of thing with evacuations.

Maybe trying to show an outside party that work is being done?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

PTI-supporter = TTP

Signalian , unsure if you are part of Military setup or just a Sympathizer

کیا آپ کی فوج نے کسی اور قوم پر حملہ کیا ہے؟
Of course "Not" so why this demand or idealogy of Immunity?

No Immunity exist for any Military Rank because you have not invaded any other country, you are in your own country
a)General <No immunity>
b) Colonel <No immunity>
c) Brigadier <No immunity>
d) Sargent <No immunity>
e) Captain <No immunity>
f) Lieutenant <No immunity>

If you are a military person please entertain us with your rank and past glory what war did you win?

But let me reply to you , as a Pakistan the Military has Citizen of Pakistan in it which demands respect , Honorable Imran Khan has indicated that in past as well.

• I respect the folks who work on border or who defend country from external threat

However , as a Pakistani Citizen I can also see
Military has crossed all boundaries in last 2 years

• Agencies are openly threatening Judges to give wrong verdicts
• Police is for while, rouge [Well known matter long before]
• People , elderly and women are in Prison for 300+ days for bogus cases

Correct Procedure /Protocol

a) Release Imran Khan and All political workers
b) Revert the seats so winners of Election PTI form Government
c) Put a Leash on the Police and Vigo Riders


Then request , a meeting with Imran Khan and his cabinet for situation at border of Afghanistan

That is the Honorable way in a Democratic Republic

Respect the Leader of Your Country Honorable Imran Khan

I stand with citizen rights and our Leader elected by Citizen of Pakistan first


Yes as Citizen I love the fancy planes and tanks and ships but the most important asset are "our people" and Human Rights

 

[GriffinsRule]

My stance is that we all have every right to call names or insult public institutions and public office holders if we think they are not doing their jobs properly. This includes political parties, politicians, military branches and the officers leading them.
Pakistani citizens however are not in that category. People demonizing individuals based on their ethnicities, religious or political affiliations, skin color, language etc will earn you censure. I understand ppl get emotional and vent, but repeated hate mongering needs to be checked.

 

[Areesh]

You dodged the question. There is no need of a fatwa against BLA by JUI of JI. Yet, it is allowed to roam balochistan in force, unchecked, in broad daylight. Can't blame the fatwa here. Can't blame the politicians here either since Baloch sardars remain in the grip of the military. No excuses work there. And yet, there are more attacks in Balochistan than in KP.

LUMS wali Nida kirmani naraz ho jaye gi agar BLA k against action lai lia to

DHA Lahore main rehnai wali Madiha bhi

Our generals can't antagonize these people

 

[Awwad]

My stance is that we all have every right to call names or insult public institutions and public office holders if we think they are not doing their jobs properly. This includes political parties, politicians, military branches and the officers leading them.
Pakistani citizens however are not in that category. People demonizing individuals based on their ethnicities, religious or political affiliations, skin color, language etc will earn you censure. I understand ppl get emotional and vent, but repeated hate mongering needs to be checked.

Exactly!

For sure, you can criticize & call out Generals. They are servants of the state, their salaries are paid by the nation. Nation is the employer, these servants (Generals) are the employees only.

But no way on earth, anyone can call out the nation (or its majority population) as terrorist. The very thinking to equate the stature of few 21 graders / servants of the state with the nation is sickening at first place.

Nation got every right to call out the complete incompetency & treacherous acts by these servants of the nation (Generals). There is no shred of doubt that regime change operation, stealing entire mandate of the nation and torturing own citizens are treacherous acts. By every definition the Generals who are doing it, are traitors.

 

[maverick]

Opposition asks Khawaja Asif to retract statement on cross-border strikes inside Afghanistan | The Express Tribune

The opposition not only condemns defence minister’s statement but seeks an apology

tribune.com.pk

need $, thats why they will throw army in war… Hate low life pakistani establishment and political elite of Pakistan

 

[PakAl]

All of Pakistan must realize that every effort will be made by certain external forces to encourage TTP to keep Pakistan mired in its internal law and order issues and the Western front. No matter what the political views about the military, this aspect of the fight requires unity or it will destroy the whole country.

It doesn't look good though, 20 years back senior PDF members used to say about 5th generation warfare, that somehow foreign agencies will turn Pakistanis against the army, cause hatred, division, this all will be a starting point to weaken the country and start some kind of fitna.

Today the exact has happened, the same people who used to sing love songs for the generals and army are now blaming every single problem on the army, yes army and establishment is making typical Pakistani mafia type of mistakes, they are not responsible for every problem but are blamed for it to pressurise them to submit, ttp is gaining momentum. Not sure what is exactly happening. I am surprised by the lack of planning by the army, its like they are falling deeper in to the trap but when they get stuck they use violence and disgusting tactics as a means to get out, the fake cases, audio recordings, video recordings, characters assassinations, blackmailing judges etc.

It's either the army is weak and cornered so going all crazy, the generals at the top are compromised or simply they are some oldies in power living in their fantasy world. I think it's the 3rd option, they failed in their narrative and ideologies war so we are trapped, they used Saudi imported religious ideology to weaken nationalist secularists without realising that foreign imported ideologies will be used against us, the same mujahdeen brothers will consider us as agents, the bangalis were not mullahs but secular nationalists who went for separatism, Pakistan establishment used Saudi nationalist extremist wahabi ideology to reduce nationalists power but instead created another monster, they supported pti against pmln n ppp to reduce their power and now pti turned against them so made things worse for themselves, If IK is agent then why didn't our agencies realise this before, or see him as a threat, he is exactly the same as before during darna times, what did they expect from him.

Lucky for pakistan, 50% of the population doesn't even vote, and majority do not want to fight a war against army so we're okay for now but maybe this is the start. The plotters keep on plotting.

 

[PakAl]

For sure, you can criticize & call out Generals. They are servants of the state, their salaries are paid by the nation. Nation is the employer, these servants (Generals) are the employees only.

Ofcourse we can, it's our right to criticise the army and generals wrong policies, also confirmed by DGISI Nadeem Anjum but what's wrong is building a well planned narrative against the generals and army, using media, journalists to target the army, to create hatred against them so they'll submit. People can deny it but it's fairly obvious that it's been done.

However I do believe the army isn't exactly helping themselves by the kidnapping, false cases, blackmailing judges, audio recordings, video recordings. Let me tell you, in AJK every single person knows the PTI AJK government was toppled by the army, the Pmln/PPP and those who leave PTI talk, as we Pakistanis cannot keep anything hidden for too long. This then makes everyone suspicious of the army and politicians then add their own massala.

 

[newb3e]

Taliban Khan breeds terrorists.

Keep this here too.

View attachment 50955

lols! halal milta hai kakul may?

 

[krash]

again good they get paid to do their job not just money they also occupy land and get housing for doing their job! how does that make them shaheed?

We'll be fair to note that the jawan who makes up the overwhelming majority of our military doesn't get anything. Absolutely not enough for the job that he performs. If he dies he leaves nothing behind for his family. If he doesn't die then he works as security guard for shoddy middlemen. He does it to protect the country and its people, not for the miniscule pay or the plots they he will never get. Anyone dying for that righteous cause is a Shaheed, period. This includes the officers. The higher ranks have also done a very respectable job on many occasions with regards to their actual responsibilities. Without which you'd be another Iraq, Yemen, Syria, or Afghanistan.

I understand the anger and I am with you. However, just as a good dead does not discount the bad, the bad does not discount the good either. You attack the bad only. Otherwise you lose the good.

I have been on one manifestation of PDF in one way or another for 20 years. I have personally tried to chase after the limo of Namaz Sharif when he was in office and visiting New York and staying on park avenue (pre-IK, government) to try to get him to implement the Pakistan Flood control system. As the son of a farmer, I know how important water management is. That has been my one personal top priority on this forum. Clean and well managed water, then we can move up maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

I don’t personal care for cricket, and I didn’t follow IK’s personal life much before politics. I have called out mistakes IK has made, and spoken about creating institutions that would formulate long term strategies. IK is mortal, all the politicians are mortal, I’m mortal, but it does t mean we should work with the most willing to change person from amongst the elite.

IK is no messiah to me, but he is the best of the lot and the only one, at this stage, from amongst the elite, leading the charge for change.

My family were fans of Benazir, not so much Zardari.

I have been on this forum still contributing ideas, regardless of government, I didn’t stop when IK’s government fell. I mourned in each thread when soldiers were martyred and gave ideas of how to prevent such things from happening again.

I agree we are a selfish and hypocritical people, by and large. What I’m saying is give up a bit of that selfishness to make room for some national development, especially amongst those with more wealth and monopolistic hold over the economy. Ultimately, they will benefit most when the economy grows and their assets benefit alongside the growth. If the elite think paying more in taxes is a waste, at the very least they should pay to provide quality education and healthcare, so the majority of the people are no longer “senseless, morally bankrupt, and selfish to the extreme”, and are able to develop the means to better support themselves, pay more of the tax burden, putting less on the elite, and keep the government in check within constructive bounds.

We disagree on the basic principles governing societal change. My argument is that the elite are always the force opposing the change and never the source of it. Their conflict of interest guarantees it. The economic and social powers that are dependent on and perpetuated by the status quo will never change the system, unless they are suicidal. They are, rightfully, afraid of an educated, healthy, and sensible public. They instead reinforce the system into ensuring that no dissent rises in their ranks and if it does then it is quashed or ostracized swiftly. Well meaning authoritarian rulers have had to bow out. Imran Khan had to abandon all that made him different.

Even if they were hopeful of retaining their ill-begotten power in a reformed system, whatever economic benefit that you foresee for them is still only two birds in the bush.

I pay out the nose on my taxes here in New York, but from what remains, Alhamdulliah, I have a decent enough life. I participate in politics here in the US, but thankfully my life doesn’t financially depend upon what happens in the elections. Pakistan, people gravitate to messiah because most life a subsistence life; I.e. Namaz Sharif’s party and the Biryani plates to people that come to his rallies. You can’t expect middle class morality from people living not much above poverty.

So please don’t misconstrue the support many have to PTI as blind loyalty to a personage, but people are yearning to see change towards just being a normal country, where 500,000 children don’t die, over an above what the mortality rate of comparable nations, at our GDP per capita, every year, for lack of basics, like clean water (not full of heavy metals), and adequate food and medicine.

I'm not demanding morality, I'm expecting the realization of the collective good. Morality is a byproduct of social progress, it starts from tangible social benefits that are mostly economic in nature. The current world order was built on the demands of the peasants. Take any other example from human history and you will find the same. Change is born from the masses because it is only they who benefit from it. The destitute demand it and the middle class enable them. Our masses are corrupt and to the extreme that they find the opportunity to be. We can make all the excuses of ghurbat and aflas but corruption, moral or otherwise, is rampant in every single rung of our society. Our want for change is limited to passing statements and hoping for a messiah, helps us sleep at night. Imran Khan is not change, he is the same of what we've had before. He's shown it multiple times but we refuse to see it. Except that he believes in his own messiah complex. Both the political dynasties that we want to pit him against were elected in the exact same manner. We wanted change, we supported them unquestioningly, and built them into the monsters they are today.

Change comes when the masses demand it and then hold their elected officials to it. Every politician in the world is corrupt, the successful societies keep them on a leash. Question any of our parties, including the military, on the most obvious issues and their rabid gang of supporters will attack you. None of them have anything to justify their support, except what the others have done.

 

[Goenitz]

Change comes when the masses demand it and then hold their elected officials to it. Every politician in the world is corrupt, the successful societies keep them on a leash. Question any of our parties, including the military, on the most obvious issues and their rabid gang of supporters will attack you. None of them have anything to justify their support, except what the others have done.

People voted for their party despite the election being delayed, the symbol was taken away, some were killed, 3G was blocked, fake narratives and propaganda, instilling fear, and thousands were incarcerated.
Now, people have lost trust in the 'Army' for being patriots and courts being partial and just.
I don't particularly appreciate saying it again and again but think of an entity (TTP or BLA or crook elite). Both portray that they are the saviours, both are armed, both consider themselves holier than the rest, both don't obey the Constitution, both use lethal force to curb the dissidents, etc
What options public is left with? Welcome a foreign invasion like 71? or pray for God's wrath from the heavens?
The public is in a meat grinder. They are pressed by inflation, injustice, hardship, miseries and whatnot. Still, to this day we lose people from heatwaves, floods, famines, from torture by police, security forces, waderas, TTPs, politicians, etc
Tell me, how do people manifest that your suggested demand?
Please give it a listen

 

[FuturePAF]

We'll be fair to note that the jawan who makes up the overwhelming majority of our military doesn't get anything. Absolutely not enough for the job that he performs. If he dies he leaves nothing behind for his family. If he doesn't die then he works as security guard for shoddy middlemen. He does it to protect the country and its people, not for the miniscule pay or the plots they he will never get. Anyone dying for that righteous cause is a Shaheed, period. This includes the officers. The higher ranks have also done a very respectable job on many occasions with regards to their actual responsibilities. Without which you'd be another Iraq, Yemen, Syria, or Afghanistan.

I understand the anger and I am with you. However, just as a good dead does not discount the bad, the bad does not discount the good either. You attack the bad only. Otherwise you lose the good.



We disagree on the basic principles governing societal change. My argument is that the elite are always the force opposing the change and never the source of it. Their conflict of interest guarantees it. The economic and social powers that are dependent on and perpetuated by the status quo will never change the system, unless they are suicidal. They are, rightfully, afraid of an educated, healthy, and sensible public. They instead reinforce the system into ensuring that no dissent rises in their ranks and if it does then it is quashed or ostracized swiftly. Well meaning authoritarian rulers have had to bow out. Imran Khan had to abandon all that made him different.

Even if they were hopeful of retaining their ill-begotten power in a reformed system, whatever economic benefit that you foresee for them is still only two birds in the bush.



I'm not demanding morality, I'm expecting the realization of the collective good. Morality is a byproduct of social progress, it starts from tangible social benefits that are mostly economic in nature. The current world order was built on the demands of the peasants. Take any other example from human history and you will find the same. Change is born from the masses because it is only they who benefit from it. The destitute demand it and the middle class enable them. Our masses are corrupt and to the extreme that they find the opportunity to be. We can make all the excuses of ghurbat and aflas but corruption, moral or otherwise, is rampant in every single rung of our society. Our want for change is limited to passing statements and hoping for a messiah, helps us sleep at night. Imran Khan is not change, he is the same of what we've had before. He's shown it multiple times but we refuse to see it. Except that he believes in his own messiah complex. Both the political dynasties that we want to pit him against were elected in the exact same manner. We wanted change, we supported them unquestioningly, and built them into the monsters they are today.

Change comes when the masses demand it and then hold their elected officials to it. Every politician in the world is corrupt, the successful societies keep them on a leash. Question any of our parties, including the military, on the most obvious issues and their rabid gang of supporters will attack you. None of them have anything to justify their support, except what the others have done.

There are many types of “revolutions”. Some can be peasant led, such as that espoused by Marx. There are those that are nobility lead, like the Manga Carta’s limitation placed on the king and the basis for English law, and there are civil wars amongst the elite, as in wars amongst nobility and royal houses.

Societal change can come from the bottom up but also from the top down. In a collectivist eastern culture like ours, a top down change is more likely, because the wealth is concentrated at the top.

Hoping that a member of the elite turn against his self interest and lead the masses to demand a new social contract from the rest of the elite, is in my opinion a way to have a peaceful change. You are more then right to say in a selfish society like ours, the elite won’t give in, and those newly elevated to lead from amongst the masses will themselves become a new elite that will take up the behavior of the old elite, such as was the case in the Soviet Russia or Napoleonic France.

 

[Starlord]

Operation Azm-e-Istehkam ? only one image comes to my mind...

I don't think we need any caption.

 

[newb3e]

We'll be fair to note that the jawan who makes up the overwhelming majority of our military doesn't get anything. Absolutely not enough for the job that he performs. If he dies he leaves nothing behind for his family. If he doesn't die then he works as security guard for shoddy middlemen. He does it to protect the country and its people, not for the miniscule pay or the plots they he will never get. Anyone dying for that righteous cause is a Shaheed, period. This includes the officers. The higher ranks have also done a very respectable job on many occasions with regards to their actual responsibilities. Without which you'd be another Iraq, Yemen, Syria, or Afghanistan.

well these are the same jawans who give mafia boss his power the 600k guns!
and the same jawans rape murder when aaddaaared by sabh they did it in bangladesh did it in numerous sham operations murdered people on 9th may etc!

fighter of righteous cause dont rape and murder so no shaheed for me!;