PA Options against Indian Armour - ATGMs on MANPADS & Attack Gunship Helicopter - News & Discussions

[Joe Shearer]

If India has 10,000 tanks and 10,000 155mm Howitzers Pakistan is going to increase the number of nukes they have and lower the threshold for their use. Read the Warsaw Pact and NATO balance of power during the Cold War. Indian government has no idea for all those tanks and artillery pieces unless there is full fledged two front war. There is no need for all those weapons as long as you can call on Uncle Sam for help. It is better to focus on economic development. As long as China is a threat to USA you can count on Uncle Sam. India is no Afghanistan or South Vietnam. Those duffel bags in Pakistan & China know it. You see what Ukraine does to Russia. The state of the Ukraine military is a joke in 2014. With just American intel right now you can slap both Pakistan & China silly

Let us go one mass hypnosis at a time. First, the ability to climb on to a tiger and why the ability to climb off it is not guaranteed.

After two decades of swaggering around and proclaiming their balls to be of Pleistocene proportions, do you think it is possible for the street corner rabble rousers and Muslim baiters of the ruling sections to now acknowledge that they have shot their Bolt? That they cannot overawe the hated neighbour (the one on the west; most of India's neighbours hate her today)?
Second, the military has been bought into, and has been allowed to buy into the current socio-political success story; the quo is the support of the military for all the vaulting propaganda claims made on vital boundary and competitive military matters for the last ten years. The quid, Not surprisingly, it the purchase of shiny new toys for the partners in the quo.

They can't do much at this late stage of the game.

The second thing is the need to keep building. The whole edifice of success has been built on increasing GDP, and on increasing production of weapons within the country. Having started it, the process cannot be stopped abruptly. So making these steel boxes with a gun and a wireless set and an engine is the simplest thing to do. The value addition is immense. A simple comparison of the cost of 60 tonnes of steel with the value of a main battle tank less the cost of its gun, its wireless set and an engine will give us the result.

 

[KingQamaR]

Given the rough parity of the forces here, the outcome might come down to the
generalship of both sides. Pakistanis as are trained on the many TOW system; and various other anti armours systems even if we hit every target (which they expected of us), Pakistanis will still have enough anti-tank missiles for you. India is not the Warsaw pact to overwhelm Pakistani defences. ,

 

[nahtanbob]

Let us go one mass hypnosis at a time. First, the ability to climb on to a tiger and why the ability to climb off it is not guaranteed.

After two decades of swaggering around and proclaiming their balls to be of Pleistocene proportions, do you think it is possible for the street corner rabble rousers and Muslim baiters of the ruling sections to now acknowledge that they have shot their Bolt? That they cannot overawe the hated neighbour (the one on the west; most of India's neighbours hate her today)?
Second, the military has been bought into, and has been allowed to buy into the current socio-political success story; the quo is the support of the military for all the vaulting propaganda claims made on vital boundary and competitive military matters for the last ten years. The quid, Not surprisingly, it the purchase of shiny new toys for the partners in the quo.

They can't do much at this late stage of the game.

The second thing is the need to keep building. The whole edifice of success has been built on increasing GDP, and on increasing production of weapons within the country. Having started it, the process cannot be stopped abruptly. So making these steel boxes with a gun and a wireless set and an engine is the simplest thing to do. The value addition is immense. A simple comparison of the cost of 60 tonnes of steel with the value of a main battle tank less the cost of its gun, its wireless set and an engine will give us the result.

Military spending has no economic payoff. At the end of the day India is a democracy where politicians do stuff for political gain. Going to war against Pakistan has no economic gain. Maybe short term political gain. The huffing & puffing of India's leaders is no different from China, Pakistan, Taliban, Turkey, Iran or Russia of the world. Sure it puts you in the league of countries you prefer not to be part of. You need enough tanks & artillery to keep military threat credible against a country that thinks it can resort to irregular warfare. It does not have to be overwhelming where the opponent is frightened. There is a practical issue of keeping military factories open. Sure build modest numbers of military hardware every year or develop an export industry

 

[nahtanbob]

Given the rough parity of the forces here, the outcome might come down to the
generalship of both sides. Pakistanis as are trained on the many TOW system; and various other anti armours systems even if we hit every target (which they expected of us), Pakistanis will still have enough anti-tank missiles for you. India is not the Warsaw pact to overwhelm Pakistani defences. ,

Pakistan cannot sustain war against larger India for more than a few weeks. If the economic disparity grows it reduces to a few days. Ukraine holds off Russia only because of massive economic and military aid from USA and Europe

 

[KingQamaR]

 

[KingQamaR]

Pakistan cannot sustain war against larger India for more than a few weeks. If the economic disparity grows it reduces to a few days. Ukraine holds off Russia only because of massive economic and military aid from USA and Europe

However I do think it would still result in a statement where india is unable to advance and the Pakistanis unable to continue the push since they have over extended their supply lines logistics. Both armies are a load of tosh!! To be honest

 

[falcon34]

If India has 10,000 tanks and 10,000 155mm Howitzers Pakistan is going to increase the number of nukes they have and lower the threshold for their use. Read the Warsaw Pact and NATO balance of power during the Cold War. Indian government has no idea for all those tanks and artillery pieces unless there is full fledged two front war. There is no need for all those weapons as long as you can call on Uncle Sam for help. It is better to focus on economic development. As long as China is a threat to USA you can count on Uncle Sam. India is no Afghanistan or South Vietnam. Those duffel bags in Pakistan & China know it. You see what Ukraine does to Russia. The state of the Ukraine military is a joke in 2014. With just American intel right now you can slap both Pakistan & China silly

And we have over 30000 ATGMS for ur 10000 tanks, aside from the drones, loitering munitions and other standoff ground launched GMRLS which can kaboom ur logistics, rendering ur tanks and artillery useless.
The silly thing is u indians still think tanks and artillery will u win u the war.
All i would say u indians won't be able to get ur tanks and artillery in firing positions, they will be torched long before that. I pity ur thinking.

 

[falcon34]

Pakistan cannot sustain war against larger India for more than a few weeks. If the economic disparity grows it reduces to a few days. Ukraine holds off Russia only because of massive economic and military aid from USA and Europe

And u think india can, mister it will be madness, it won't be russia ukraine war, whatever u are seeing today in ukraine multiply that with 100.
And on another note the army has good amount of amo and other logistic stuff to carry out the war for good 2-3 months,
Hell if war goes on for more than a week, nukes will probably go off.

 

[KingQamaR]

Nathanbob doctrine was flawed.

 

[nahtanbob]

And we have over 30000 ATGMS for ur 10000 tanks, aside from the drones, loitering munitions and other standoff ground launched GMRLS which can kaboom ur logistics, rendering ur tanks and artillery useless.
The silly thing is u indians still think tanks and artillery will u win u the war.
All i would say u indians won't be able to get ur tanks and artillery in firing positions, they will be torched long before that. I pity ur thinking.

Tell me how much money you think a conventional war with India will cost per day

 

[KingQamaR]

Tell me how much money you think a conventional war with India will cost per day

I wii answer with a question “ How long is a piece of string” it depends how long it goes for number of troops involved intensity of it a many other factors. Pakistan resources will be and can be diverted put to use to:War! I think you are to focused on the current conflict going on. Pakistan and india are not Ukrainian or Russian or the Iraq / Iran war ours is always short and ends in stalemate of sort.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Given the rough parity of the forces here, the outcome might come down to the
generalship of both sides. Pakistanis as are trained on the many TOW system; and various other anti armours systems even if we hit every target (which they expected of us), Pakistanis will still have enough anti-tank missiles for you. India is not the Warsaw pact to overwhelm Pakistani defences. ,

Maybe, maybe not.
First, those objects at which this multiplicity of armaments will be fired will not necessarily sit in one place and patiently await their martyrdom. They may - who knows? Greater acts of impertinence have occurred - fire back. At greater ranger, with greater explosive power.

There is that apocryphal story of the then 25000 strong Swiss army. One Swiss soldier was asked by an amused German officer what would happen if 50'000 Germans attacked.
"We'll fire twice and go home", said the Swiss.
The trouble is they aren't here helping to defend the smaller country. The trouble is the smaller country has always emphasised its warrior quality. It is quite possible that will be a battle winning quality some day. The possibility cannot be ruled out.

 

[nahtanbob]

I wii answer with a question “ How long is a piece of string” it depends how long it goes for number of troops involved intensity of it a many other factors. Pakistan resources will be and can be diverted put to use to:War! I think you are to focused on the current conflict going on. Pakistan and india are not Ukrainian or Russian or the Iraq / Iran war ours is always short and ends in stalemate of sort.

An all out war between India & Pakistan will involve 500,000 Pakistani troops. Keep in mind you are running to the IMF for petty amounts of $700 million to $3 billion

I will repeat the question

Tell me how much money you think an all out conventional war with India will cost per day

I made some of the operative words in bold. Put a dollar figure if you can. I have a number based on some calculations.

As a military planner is it wise to assume the wars will be short ? if all Pakistani war planners assume their wars with India are short in duration you are making the lives of Indian war planners easy.

@Joe Shearer Am I missing something here ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

I wii answer with a question “ How long is a piece of string” it depends how long it goes for number of troops involved intensity of it a many other factors. Pakistan resources will be and can be diverted put to use to:War! I think you are to focused on the current conflict going on. Pakistan and india are not Ukrainian or Russian or the Iraq / Iran war ours is always short and ends in stalemate of sort.

Quite so.
All one side has to do is to extend the war for quite a different outcome.
It may not even be necessary to cross national boundaries.

 

[nahtanbob]

Quite so.
All one side has to do is to extend the war for quite a different outcome.
It may not even be necessary to cross national boundaries.

It is essentially Russia's playback against Ukraine