PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[Shui]

A CCTV military program reported that during joint military exercises between Pakistan and Qatar in 2024, the J-10CE fighter jet achieved a decisive 9–0 victory over the Typhoon fighter jet.
View attachment 197477

《军事科技》 20260512 逆袭的鸭翼

本期节目主要内容： 2025年3月21日，美国总统特朗普宣布授予波音公司生产美国空军下一代空中优势战斗机，并将战机命名为F-47。这款被美军寄予厚望的第六代战机竟然采用了他们曾经不屑一顾的鸭翼设计。回想以往，美军曾公开宣称“鸭翼最理想的位置，就是在敌机的飞机上”，话语中充满对鸭翼的轻视。本期节目带您深入解析这片曾备受争议的小翼面。 （《军事科技》 20260512 逆袭的鸭翼）

tv.cctv.com

The crux of the matter lies in economic cost-effectiveness and the PAC's response capabilities.

Guancha trio mentioned this 9:0 during last year's podcast.

 

[PakistaniDefender]

yes, during eid they always publish a circular asking people not to dump carcasses. Infact, perhaps even they clean up carcasses.

IMO the only workable solution is the PAF buys up the land around the runways and increases the length of the clearways at the ends of the runway, this means the aircraft are within airport grounds while descending and that way theyre less likely to meet a vulture, because they'd be higher than before.

View attachment 197478

the clearway is basically an amount of area which starts at the runway threshold, encompassing the stopway which runs beyond the runway and is under the control of the airport authority, this ensures aircraft are able to climb to their screen height (50 feet at the end of the takeoff distance/50 ft at the arrival, variable- depending on aircraft class/conditions) ensuring obstacle clearance

View attachment 197479

with fast jets, i believe they dont need to comply with rules like these, these are mostly civillian rules, wrt screen height etc, but the runway layout and approach path design is the same i assume, however, increasing the length of the clearway creates a guaranteed carcass free area, at which point you could probably even conduct some sort of tactical descent, having you get down fast enough within the boundaries of the airfield, ensuring youre clear of vultures

There are vultures in Kamra?

 

[Corax]

There are vultures in Kamra?

Doesn't need a vulture to destroy a fighter, almost any bird strike could.

 

[Sparten]

The drone claim I have heard during the war from operational folks well before warned article.

I never probed what drone but it is plausible that post the IAF grounding there was a window of opportunity to skirt AD and potentially put a MALE in the general vicinity of Dehli knowing that IAF was skittish about radar emissions thinking it was a bait to allow for location on AD systems.

We have sent Falcos and even Flamingos deep into India. I wouldn't be surprised if there was highly aggressive MALE activity. With the bird basically being written off before the start of mission.

 

[rafale]

The way SAAB2000 was targeted, there could be one of the three possibilities:

1. Indians had been tracking that particular a/c and exactly knew where it landed prior to the strike. There was this confusion regarding the cessation of hostilities and PAF was caught off guard. The enemy could track the plane right up to the hanger where it was parked, either through the almost real time satellite imagery from their own birds in the space or guessed the parking location once it was clear that it landed at Bholari.

2. Americans shafted us really good and gave the exact coordinates to the Indians. There were similar rumors that Shahbaz AFB strike was coordinated between the Yankees and Indians.

3. Internal treachery. Someone present at the base (may be airman or lower staff) gave the exact location to get some quick bucks. You wont imagine how cheap people sell.

Whatever the case might have been, it was totally avoidable.
We had came out of the May conflict almost scratch free (a/c wise) but this last minute strike did the most unneccessary damage.

You gave a very good reply, except he was not asking about SAAB2000 but rather the rumors that PAF had Indian so called AWACS A50 in its target sights via a drone.

 

[Oscar]

You are right........but they could hardly deploy what they did have, i.e. the much over hyped Meteors..........Meteor was literally the reason they wanted to get Rafales.

R-37 might be 400km, but how are you gonna provide actionable guidance over that long distance?

The mistake Pakistan would make is to assume the same enemy mindset for the next conflict. They are learning from their mistakes that you are publicly telling them and more that they are analyzing - to assume they will make the same or new ones but keep making mistakes is your own.

You plan for the "perfect" enemy plan while assuming you will have flaws -

 

[Oscar]

We have sent Falcos and even Flamingos deep into India. I wouldn't be surprised if there was highly aggressive MALE activity. With the bird basically being written off before the start of mission.

Probably did lose a number not even that deep - but then the most expensive thing for UAVs in Pakistan was the engine - that cost was somewhat compensated by China as you tried to pivot from Rotax -- but Rotax is Rotax.

 

[Afif]

A CCTV military program reported that during joint military exercises between Pakistan and Qatar in 2024, the J-10CE fighter jet achieved a decisive 9–0 victory over the Typhoon fighter jet.
View attachment 197477

《军事科技》 20260512 逆袭的鸭翼

本期节目主要内容： 2025年3月21日，美国总统特朗普宣布授予波音公司生产美国空军下一代空中优势战斗机，并将战机命名为F-47。这款被美军寄予厚望的第六代战机竟然采用了他们曾经不屑一顾的鸭翼设计。回想以往，美军曾公开宣称“鸭翼最理想的位置，就是在敌机的飞机上”，话语中充满对鸭翼的轻视。本期节目带您深入解析这片曾备受争议的小翼面。 （《军事科技》 20260512 逆袭的鸭翼）

tv.cctv.com

@side-winder actually clarified the context somewhere iirc.

 

[air marshal]

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[Intervention-06]

You gave a very good reply, except he was not asking about SAAB2000 but rather the rumors that PAF had Indian so called AWACS A50 in its target sights via a drone.

No again wrong I was asking about the PAF. But it’s Ok -

 

[niubi]

R-37M to India even if non-downgraded and featuring Russia's full range, is still something IAF can't make use of anyway.

The Rafale is not compatible with the R-37M and cannot be made so without source codes and even with source codes would typically take many years to decade of dedicated effort as is the case with almost all weapons compatibility programs from PL-12 on Su-27SK (J-11A) to Meteor on Gripen to Brahmos NG on Su-30MKI.

R-37M outranges the available capacity of Su-30MKI's Bars radar. Bars radar is absolutely useless for frontline standard. It was good in the 1990s era (even though it came in the early 2000s), already poor performance by 2010s and now useless. It's a good pair for R-77 even at a stretch make use of R-77M generation but for R-37M? lol

PAF should still only be concerned about S-400, Rafale and Meteor. Just laugh at the idea of R-37M. Unless India buys Su-57, the R-37M can be dismissed. S-400, Rafale and Meteor are still capable systems and require very capable ISR, planning and PAF execution of air combat for success like in May 2025.

PL-17 is not for export yet. PLAAF has longer ranged AA missiles than PL-17 already. This has long been hinted by very credible sources who have not been wrong or led us astray. In fact they all say there are more than one missile in PLAAF testing or even use that outranges PL-17. Main weapons bay for J-36 isn't designed around PL-17 which is a 10 year old missile already and designed in the 2000s era.

Therefore I think PL-17 for export isn't out of the question for short or medium term future. Once PLAAF have newer ultra long range AA missiles in active service and in mass production, PL-17 probably will get an E version. No reason why it cannot be carried by J-10CE since the load and drag is still lower than many A2G munitions the J-10CE can carry on the centre pylon. The YJ-91 anti radiation missile which is developed from Kh-31 is heavier and draggier than PL-17.



You could have a pair of J-10CE with the following air to air configuration.

First fighter:
2x fuel tanks
2x PL-17
2x fuselage mounted PL-15
2x PL-10 or even forgo these for BVR only to save weight and drag

Second fighter:
2x fuel tanks
4x wing mounted PL-15
2x fuselage mounted PL-15
2x PL-10 optional

The weight and drag penalty of this A2A loadout isn't going to penalise the WS-10B powered J-10CE all that much to be honest. Like yes it's semi-beast mode because this is maxing out it's A2A capability but US corporations advertise stupid weight and drag level beast modes with a thrust:weight+drag penalty ratio that is more absurd which means this loadout is doable.

Rafale pilot spoke about carrying 2x Meteors to A2A fight is typical to improve energy performance and management but Rafale can also double that and carry a few Micas or Magics along with and at least 2x fuel tanks.

Anyway that's realistically taking to a fight with just two J-10CEs up to 2x PL-17s and 8x PL-15s with enough fuel for longer range and dwell time.

 

[Fatman17]

J-10CE ‘9-0’ Shockwave: Did Pakistan’s Chinese Fighter Humiliate Eurofighter Typhoon—or Trigger a Global Airpower Debate?​

Unverified claims from the Pakistan-Qatar Zilzal-II exercise have reignited global scrutiny over Chinese fighter capabilities, Eurofighter competitiveness, and the future balance of airpower across the Middle East and Indo-Pacific.​

 

[Watandar]

Totally unnecessary and cringe worthy part where they talk about AC Sidhu…. Too much propaganda nonsense … turning our last prized institute to “sir aap ki vision hai” nonsense .

Totally sad ….

Perhaps Mr Sidhu has developed a reputation for being vindictive to dissenters while richly rewarding supporters, like Mr Trump. Therefore all this praise could be career self preservation.

 

[rafale]

J-10CE ‘9-0’ Shockwave: Did Pakistan’s Chinese Fighter Humiliate Eurofighter Typhoon—or Trigger a Global Airpower Debate?​

Unverified claims from the Pakistan-Qatar Zilzal-II exercise have reignited global scrutiny over Chinese fighter capabilities, Eurofighter competitiveness, and the future balance of airpower across the Middle East and Indo-Pacific.​

View attachment 197649

J-10CE with PL15, will eat any Eurofighter/Rafale/Gripen/F-16 out there.

 

[rafale]

yes, during eid they always publish a circular asking people not to dump carcasses. Infact, perhaps even they clean up carcasses.

IMO the only workable solution is the PAF buys up the land around the runways and increases the length of the clearways at the ends of the runway, this means the aircraft are within airport grounds while descending and that way theyre less likely to meet a vulture, because they'd be higher than before.

View attachment 197478

the clearway is basically an amount of area which starts at the runway threshold, encompassing the stopway which runs beyond the runway and is under the control of the airport authority, this ensures aircraft are able to climb to their screen height (50 feet at the end of the takeoff distance/50 ft at the arrival, variable- depending on aircraft class/conditions) ensuring obstacle clearance

View attachment 197479

with fast jets, i believe they dont need to comply with rules like these, these are mostly civillian rules, wrt screen height etc, but the runway layout and approach path design is the same i assume, however, increasing the length of the clearway creates a guaranteed carcass free area, at which point you could probably even conduct some sort of tactical descent, having you get down fast enough within the boundaries of the airfield, ensuring youre clear of vultures

Bhai, most PAF bases are now covered with populated areas. Next to impossible to buy that much land.

Even if government triggered the strategic land acquisition clause in the land acquisition act 1896, the cost you will have to pay to secure the perimeter (and keep the affected population pacified with high land fees) would be better spent on building new bases out of population areas.

Most PAF bases are still old RAF bases, so you have almost 80 years of population growth in them.

Bholari was a decent place and upgrade. Need similar ones for future, especially in Balochistan or far away from border areas.

Take the dual use PAF Faisal + PNS Mehran airbase as a poor example.

That is literally waiting for something worse to happen. I pass by that airbase on my way to work on Port Qasim and i use the newly built Shahrae Bhutto. It literally passes few meters (100m max) from the boundary. Because of the elevated nature of the expressway, i can see all the hangers. I mean, it wouldn't take a lot of effort to fly in a drone or two and cause multimillion capability damage to your aerial assets.

They only beefed up the boundary wall and some sentry towers here and there after that terror attack. This airbase is literally begging to be moved out of there, not to mention the trouble it causes for civilian flights coming in and out of JIAP.


Masroor is still better as the main base is very far from main boundary/gates.