PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Waz]

People suggesting this do not have the basics of how you build a fighter aircraft.

The airframe is built around the engine and not the other way around.

China knew that the Ws-15 would not be ready before the airframe, radar and avionics was developed/tested for the J-20 and so developed the fighter around the Russia AL-31F engine. In turn they then had to make the dimensions of the WS-15 almost exactly the same as the AL-31F so it would fit nicely into the J-20 airframe.

The idea that Turkey would "offer" the option for Russian or Chinese engine for KAAN is absurd as they would need to rewrite the whole flight control software for a start.

Spot on.

 

[lightning f57]

Tempest I dont think will be ready till early 2040s, I dont go by the 2035 as the government has always been delayed in launching big programmes.

India getting Tempest will prob be late 2040s at earliest.

However if im sitting in GCHQ, you can not ignore the threat in the west led by radical zionist extremists. So PAF should maintain credible deterrence to deal with a more technologically advance foe than India.

 

[alphapak]

What is causing American engine delays for the Tejas?

 

[Quwa]

PAF should reduce future orders for J-10C and place orders for J-35 instead.

No need to waste money buying even the excellent 4+ generation J-10CE in the 2030s.

This will give the PAF a 10-15 year head start over IAF, which will have to wait for the UK/Italy/Japan Tempest till it gets an equivalent fighter. F-35 is no match for J-35A even if somehow the Indians got hold of it.

Each platform serves a purpose. The J-35s would form the PAF's offensive units, while the J-10CE will be an area defence fighter, providing defensibility against intruding Rafales and upgraded Sukhois.

Hence, the PAF would likely pursue both the J-10CE and J-35A. The ideal mix would be 150 J-10CEs and JF-17 Block-3s and 90 J-35As

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

American hardware always comes with a zillion conditions. Pakistan is relieved to have China as a supplier.

Parents spend top dollars for their kids' law degrees at the top schools for a reason! At the end of the day the lawyers put the fine prints on any contract. And, the lawyers posses the brains of the top-class crooks....

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Kaan will use American engine so most likely the deal will need American approval.

The Turkish indigenous 35K lb engine's final design phase is over, so the fuselage and tail parts of the new prototypes are being modified accordingly, as per Col Eray Gucluer (rtd) in recent Turkish TV programs....

TEI core 6K lb (10K lb with an after burner) protype has already gone through 60+ tests. As per TEI CEO Prof Dr Mahmut Aksit, a former executive VP at GE's Turbo-engine R&D Division, they follow GE's way of building engines. They create a "library" of building blocks - each one being designed, fabricated, and qualified independently - to integrate them into the final engine design as per the requirement. Hence, they can scale it up to 35K once they're satisfied with 10K since it's modular by design and fabrication philosophies....

 

[Oscar]

Increased time on station, With side benefit of reaching there without the glowing fireball?

Yes - although the glowing fireball isn’t the only heatsource - aircraft skin heats up as well at supersonic speeds.

From a scenario perspective - in the close knit quarters of the subcontinent - how often is it going to be of utility?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Turks will not let their jet be flown by an engine that they themselves don't develop or use.

It may not be like set on stone. In one presentation the Turkish officials were hinting at a 3rd option. Given that choosing an engine outside the US/NATO or indigenous ones for TurAF KAANs has lots of implications, for other AFs flexibility can be shown.....

 

[Dalit]

IMO.Analyzing the current situation, PAF cannot have KAAN before 2040.I am not fluent in English to describe and analyze the reasons for this conclusion. It is related to the trade war between the United States and China. Including all of India's fighter jet development programs have also been severely affected.
Please note that this conclusion does not refer to Turkey's KAAN research program but to Pakistan's inability to have KAAN before 2040.

==================================

My opinion remains unchanged about when the J35 will arrive in Pakistan:
The timing of its arrival in Pakistan depends on India.

Now an additional article:
Which version of J35 Pakistan will get also depends on India.

No doubt. KAAN will take a lot of time. Nevertheless, the beauty called J-35 is a mainstay for PAF.

 

[Dalit]

Each platform serves a purpose. The J-35s would form the PAF's offensive units, while the J-10CE will be an area defence fighter, providing defensibility against intruding Rafales and upgraded Sukhois.

Hence, the PAF would likely pursue both the J-10CE and J-35A. The ideal mix would be 150 J-10CEs and JF-17 Block-3s and 90 J-35As

Absolutely spot on. What an incredible line up of fighters.

 

[Oscar]

IMO.Analyzing the current situation, PAF cannot have KAAN before 2040.I am not fluent in English to describe and analyze the reasons for this conclusion. It is related to the trade war between the United States and China. Including all of India's fighter jet development programs have also been severely affected.
Please note that this conclusion does not refer to Turkey's KAAN research program but to Pakistan's inability to have KAAN before 2040.

==================================

My opinion remains unchanged about when the J35 will arrive in Pakistan:
The timing of its arrival in Pakistan depends on India.

Now an additional article:
Which version of J35 Pakistan will get also depends on India.

I’ll make it simpler -
From a rivalry perspective - Pakistan is always looking to “see” what India does before it makes its move to get a capability a level above.

In this case - because the Indian fighter programs are being impacted by trade wars not just with USA/China but also Russia being completely out as a reliable supplier - combine this with supply/demand issues with Rafale - Pakistan planted the seed for panic with the J-35 announcement(whether it was intended with this purpose or for self promotion of the PAF chief is a debated topic) - now India was already in trouble and is now scrambling to find a solution for J-35 which is logically F-35 but it comes with many “hand cuffs” - the US wants it, there are those in IAF that are ok with it but with the F-35 India is permanently “beholden” to Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon regardless of assurances.

So, now that Pakistan has ordered the J-35(and it is expensive) - it is also trying to gauge India’s response -

1. Pakistan can get the WS-21 version - it has benefits in having common core with RD-93 full overhaul available. It will also give it an immediate edge but also gives India a target to best - after all aircraft are not like cellphones that you can change every week.

2. Pakistan can delay induction a little and see if India responds by buying something under both actual military requirement pressure and political influence. Will it buy more Rafale? Will it buy the F-35? Will it buy a different fighter?
Once again, even with India’s deep pockets it cannot buy aircraft like chocolates and a purchase means a commitment for decades in terms of both funds and Human Resources. So once it pulls the trigger it has to stick to it.

The case here is - if Pakistan gets the J-35 it could likely have some land by late 2026 if it wishes with the WS-21. But the same money constraints India has Pakistanis have it even worse.

If they get a version now and commit to it - they will not have funds for a fairly long time to commit to another version of the J-35 leave alone another 5th generation project like the Kaan.

 

[mythbuster]

I’ll make it simpler -
From a rivalry perspective - Pakistan is always looking to “see” what India does before it makes its move to get a capability a level above.

In this case - because the Indian fighter programs are being impacted by trade wars not just with USA/China but also Russia being completely out as a reliable supplier - combine this with supply/demand issues with Rafale - Pakistan planted the seed for panic with the J-35 announcement(whether it was intended with this purpose or for self promotion of the PAF chief is a debated topic) - now India was already in trouble and is now scrambling to find a solution for J-35 which is logically F-35 but it comes with many “hand cuffs” - the US wants it, there are those in IAF that are ok with it but with the F-35 India is permanently “beholden” to Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon regardless of assurances.

So, now that Pakistan has ordered the J-35(and it is expensive) - it is also trying to gauge India’s response -

1. Pakistan can get the WS-21 version - it has benefits in having common core with RD-93 full overhaul available. It will also give it an immediate edge but also gives India a target to best - after all aircraft are not like cellphones that you can change every week.

2. Pakistan can delay induction a little and see if India responds by buying something under both actual military requirement pressure and political influence. Will it buy more Rafale? Will it buy the F-35? Will it buy a different fighter?
Once again, even with India’s deep pockets it cannot buy aircraft like chocolates and a purchase means a commitment for decades in terms of both funds and Human Resources. So once it pulls the trigger it has to stick to it.

The case here is - if Pakistan gets the J-35 it could likely have some land by late 2026 if it wishes with the WS-21. But the same money constraints India has Pakistanis have it even worse.

If they get a version now and commit to it - they will not have funds for a fairly long time to commit to another version of the J-35 leave alone another 5th generation project like the Kaan.

Hey Oscar , why don't you join ISI's psychological warfare department ?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I’ll make it simpler -
From a rivalry perspective - Pakistan is always looking to “see” what India does before it makes its move to get a capability a level above.

In this case - because the Indian fighter programs are being impacted by trade wars not just with USA/China but also Russia being completely out as a reliable supplier - combine this with supply/demand issues with Rafale - Pakistan planted the seed for panic with the J-35 announcement(whether it was intended with this purpose or for self promotion of the PAF chief is a debated topic) - now India was already in trouble and is now scrambling to find a solution for J-35 which is logically F-35 but it comes with many “hand cuffs” - the US wants it, there are those in IAF that are ok with it but with the F-35 India is permanently “beholden” to Lockheed Martin and the Pentagon regardless of assurances.

So, now that Pakistan has ordered the J-35(and it is expensive) - it is also trying to gauge India’s response -

1. Pakistan can get the WS-21 version - it has benefits in having common core with RD-93 full overhaul available. It will also give it an immediate edge but also gives India a target to best - after all aircraft are not like cellphones that you can change every week.

2. Pakistan can delay induction a little and see if India responds by buying something under both actual military requirement pressure and political influence. Will it buy more Rafale? Will it buy the F-35? Will it buy a different fighter?
Once again, even with India’s deep pockets it cannot buy aircraft like chocolates and a purchase means a commitment for decades in terms of both funds and Human Resources. So once it pulls the trigger it has to stick to it.

The case here is - if Pakistan gets the J-35 it could likely have some land by late 2026 if it wishes with the WS-21. But the same money constraints India has Pakistanis have it even worse.

If they get a version now and commit to it - they will not have funds for a fairly long time to commit to another version of the J-35 leave alone another 5th generation project like the Kaan.

The PAF is leveraging the "confusion" syndrome of the Bharati strategists by exploiting it's own "surprises". According to Dr Swamy, a top Hindutva ideologue, a Bharati mind is full of confusions leading to its indecision. And, as per some retired Bharati generals, when confusion sets in their High Command they become dead immobile.....

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

VERY SOON IN PAF

 

[UKBengali]

Each platform serves a purpose. The J-35s would form the PAF's offensive units, while the J-10CE will be an area defence fighter, providing defensibility against intruding Rafales and upgraded Sukhois.

Hence, the PAF would likely pursue both the J-10CE and J-35A. The ideal mix would be 150 J-10CEs and JF-17 Block-3s and 90 J-35As

You are (almost)practically saying what I am saying.

JF-17 Block 3 production will continue at 12-16 a year till they get to nearly 100 planes I imagine. It is more than sufficient to handle anything in IAF bar Rafale.

I said 40 J-10CEs and 40 J-35s as that would be sufficient to keep IAF at bay and even probably give PAF air supremacy till it gets a proper next generation fighter, as the J-35 is in another league to any version of IAF Rafale.

Nothing to match or exceed J-35 will come to IAF till Tempest is available to India in the mid to late 2030s. Yes they will become a "partner" as that is the only option they have to counter PAF J-35s and so will get it as soon as the others like UK/Italy/Japan get it. India in essence will pay billions to UK in development costs for the right to get Tempest as early as possible.

Not sure whether PAF will want to solely rely on Chinese fighters as the Turkish KAAN may potentially be available for exports in the early 2030s. The massive unknown is whether Turkey will successfully develop its own engine. If KAAN is not available then I can see PAF getting 80-90 J-35s by the mid-2030s as you say.