PAF Negotiating For L-15 LIFT Aircrafts

[Fatman17]

It all started when the L-15 made a stopover at Islamabad enroute to a international air show in the ME. It is rumoured that the L-15 flew a demo for the PAF which led to the negotiations rumours. PAF already has a JF-17B as a trainer for the JF-17 Thunder program and has the F-16B/D for the Viper fleet. The only program left is the J-10CE and l think that the JF-17B would be a adequate training platform.

 

[That_Guy]

It all started when the L-15 made a stopover at Islamabad enroute to a international air show in the ME. It is rumoured that the L-15 flew a demo for the PAF which led to the negotiations rumours. PAF already has a JF-17B as a trainer for the JF-17 Thunder program and has the F-16B/D for the Viper fleet. The only program left is the J-10CE and l think that the JF-17B would be a adequate training platform.

I don't see a need for the L-15 either, nor do I think the PAF will actually buy it.

This was likely just a passing interest with media overexaggerating, turning an ant Hill into a mountain.

 

[Bossman]

It all started when the L-15 made a stopover at Islamabad enroute to an international air show in the ME. It is rumoured that the L-15 flew a demo for the PAF which led to the negotiations rumours. PAF already has a JF-17B as a trainer for the JF-17 Thunder program and has the F-16B/D for the Viper fleet. The only program left is the J-10CE and l think that the JF-17B would be an adequate training platform.

There is difference between a LIFT/Advanced trainer and a fighter conversion trainer. PAF hasn’t had an advanced trainer since the FT5s were retired. PAF has been using an Intermediate trainer I.e. K8P as a substitute for an Advanced trainer/LIFT, which makes transition to fast jets difficult. L15s role will be to convert Pilot Officers fresh out of the Academy to fast jet before they move over to fighter conversion I.e JFs, F16s, J10s or even Mirage.

 

[Zarvan]

It all started when the L-15 made a stopover at Islamabad enroute to a international air show in the ME. It is rumoured that the L-15 flew a demo for the PAF which led to the negotiations rumours. PAF already has a JF-17B as a trainer for the JF-17 Thunder program and has the F-16B/D for the Viper fleet. The only program left is the J-10CE and l think that the JF-17B would be a adequate training platform.

L-15 is meant to train for future platforms. Plus, a Chinese official confirmed this news at a Defense Expo. Training for J-31 and then when KAAN comes is the main goal.

 

[Reichmarshal]

PAF is in serious negotiations with China for the sale of L15. But the whole process of putting pen to paper to the ac landing in Pakistan will take time.

 

[Fatman17]

There is difference between a LIFT/Advanced trainer and a fighter conversion trainer. PAF hasn’t had an advanced trainer since the FT5s were retired. PAF has been using an Intermediate trainer I.e. K8P as a substitute for an Advanced trainer/LIFT, which makes transition to fast jets difficult. L15s role will be to convert Pilot Officers fresh out of the Academy to fast jet before they move over to fighter conversion I.e JFs, F16s, J10s or even Mirage.

Ok

 

[Fatman17]

There is difference between a LIFT/Advanced trainer and a fighter conversion trainer. PAF hasn’t had an advanced trainer since the FT5s were retired. PAF has been using an Intermediate trainer I.e. K8P as a substitute for an Advanced trainer/LIFT, which makes transition to fast jets difficult. L15s role will be to convert Pilot Officers fresh out of the Academy to fast jet before they move over to fighter conversion I.e JFs, F16s, J10s or even Mirage.

Lead-in fighter training (LIFT) utilises advanced jet trainer aircraft with avionics and stores-management capability that emulate operational fighter planes, to provide efficient training in combat scenarios with reduced training costs compared to moving straight to operational conversion.
The difference seems to be cost?

 

[Fatman17]

Lead-in fighter training (LIFT) utilises advanced jet trainer aircraft with avionics and stores-management capability that emulate operational fighter planes, to provide efficient training in combat scenarios with reduced training costs compared to moving straight to operational conversion.
The difference seems to be cost?

The unit has the primary peacetime role of training newly commissioned officers, (with limited experience on the slower T-37s), to fly supersonic jets. No. 1 Fighter Conversion Unit (FCU)

 

[Fatman17]

A-5 / F-6 had FT-6
F-7 had FT-7
Previously F-86 had T-33
Mirage have their 2-seat trainers
Same for JF-17 and F-16.
@Bossman you are right but I feel the terminology has changed.

 

[Bossman]

A-5 / F-6 had FT-6
F-7 had FT-7
Previously F-86 had T-33
Mirage have their 2-seat trainers
Same for JF-17 and F-16.
@Bossman you are right but I feel the terminology has changed.

All of the above except for the T33 were fighter conversion jets, which come after Advance jet training. T33 was an advance trainer and not exclusively a lead in to the F86. It was with number 2 squadron in Masroor and not tied to any Sabre squadron. Even the FT6 came in very late. In those days anyone flying Sabre or the early years of F6 had no choice but to go solo on Sabres and F6 after T33.

 

[GriffinsRule]

All of the above except for the T33 were fighter conversion jets, which come after Advance jet training. T33 was an advance trainer and not exclusively a lead in to the F86. It was with number 2 squadron in Masroor and not tied to any Sabre squadron. Even the FT6 came in very late. In those days anyone flying Sabre or the early years of F6 had no choice but to go solo on Sabres and F6 after T33.

They were subsonic aircraft though so not a big leap from T-33s.

 

[Reichmarshal]

The unit has the primary peacetime role of training newly commissioned officers, (with limited experience on the slower T-37s), to fly supersonic jets. No. 1 Fighter Conversion Unit (FCU)

T 37 was our basic trainer, then the pilots switched to the intermediate trainer the k8 n then they went for fighter conversion

 

[Bossman]

They were subsonic aircraft though so not a big leap from T-33s.

So FT6, FT7, Mirage two seater and JF 17 were/are subsonic? I think you meant to say supersonic. The point is simple, we are missing an Advanced/LIFT trainer since we retired the FT5s and using the K8 as both a basic and Intermediate trainer. Pilots flying slow jets are going directly into fighter conversion and It causes problems.

 

[GriffinsRule]

So FT6, FT7, Mirage two seater and JF 17 were/are subsonic? I think you meant to say supersonic. The point is simple, we are missing an Advanced/LIFT trainer since we retired the FT5s and using the K8 as both a basic and Intermediate trainer. Pilots flying slow jets are going directly into fighter conversion and It causes problems.

Sabres ...

 

[CSAW]

Why is Pakistan Pursuing the L-15B? [QUWA]​

" In general, a LIFT is an aircraft designed to help acclimate new pilots on modern fighter platforms. Basically, the reasoning is that the jump between an advanced trainer (e.g., the K-8) to a frontline multi-role fighter (e.g., JF-17) might be too steep of a leap for a new pilot.




Thus, a LIFT serves as a bridge by familiarizing the pilot with the physical characteristics, subsystems, and weapons of a fighter, but in a simpler environment.



The PAF did not immediately push for a LIFT. In 2015, then PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman voiced that the PAF was skeptical of LIFT aircraft, mostly because the operational costs were at par with those of full-fledged fighters, like the JF-17 and F-16.

Instead, the PAF planned to use the two-seat JF-17B in a LIFT-type role. Its rationale was that the K-8 should provide enough familiarization in the lead-up to the JF-17B which, in turn, would convert those new pilots into fighter aircrew.





However, by 2017, the PAF changed its tune and, instead, made acquiring a dedicated LIFT a priority. That same year, the PAF raised a new LIFT unit, designated “Shooter Squadron,” at PAF Base M.M. Alam located in Mianwali. Hilal, a publication belonging to Inter-Services Public Relations’ (ISPR), explained that the new unit was responsible for preparing pilots fresh off the K-8 trainer for conversion to the F-16 and JF-17…"